2017 - "Best" FMIC Thread | What's everyone running? + Data

[Steven@ClarkPerformanceFab]

I've got a log from yesterday using my Evolution Racewerks FMIC at 30 psi on MMP twins doing a 3-4 gear pull. IAT jumped from 104 to 150. Ambient temperature was 82 degrees. I'm selling it this winter and I'm waiting for Mauricio to release more details about his new intercooler design but my first choice on the poll would be the ADE.

 

[all4bspinnin]

Im on board with the Ambient Thermal management thing. Also, in testing we learned that the normal vrsf 7 inch is trash for anything over stage 1. The vrsf HD is much better.

 

[ATMSpeedShop]

They came back as @ATMSpeedShop

Thanks for the tag!

Thanks. Any idea how the Helix should compare to those listed above?

ATM is back and holding our own.

And we have some data to share Some have made some assumptions as to how well our units would perform on anything other than a stock turbo car. Our competitors have even made claims about the performance of our core and based on the results of their similar designs. Well, a few members with single turbo builds have been gracious enough to take a shot with our intercoolers. This is just some preliminary data but the results speak for themselves, perhaps this will change some opinions of what a quality-engineered 5" stepped-core is capable of.....

1st is a Precision 6266 build out of Las Vegas....95* ambient, 115* radiating off the streets

2nd is another 6266 build local to Baltimore...77* ambient

 

[RSL]

18psi on a 6266, might as well have an air conditioner on the IC inlet lol

"Best" is truly subjective. In what way and for what purpose? People default to IATs as "the" measure, but they're completely relative. Which is "better": one with IATs of 125F peak for someone with inlet temps of 85F running 16psi (stock turbos) in 80F weather or 150F IATs peak with 140F inlet temps running 20psi (stock turbos) in 90F weather? The second scenario IC is doing much more work and may be more efficient than the first, may even be the same IC, but you'd never know it just looking at IATs. It might also be more restrictive, which may or may not matter, but you wouldn't see that looking at IATs either. Just saying, everyone jumps to logged IATs as the determining factor and it is only a relative measure.

Need turbo outlet temps and pressure, IC outlet temps and pressure, WGDC and ambient temps at a minimum. If trying to compare to another IC, need all those and overlaid boost/power curves for each. In this case, VD would be better for real-world airflow on the cores, but need to be really careful that logging is done as close to the same as possible.

I used Dinan and then Evo 2 Performance. ADE (who is currently getting ripped to shreds elsewhere for business practices lately) and ATM were at the top of my list to replace the Dinan, but didn't want to wait weeks for the ADE and couldn't contact ATM at the end of last year. VRSF 7" HD has piqued my interest as has the Evo 3.

I'm in TX and DA is routinely 4500-5500' during the summer (1050' actual). I think between AZ, FL, TX, we can all kind of giggle when someone complains about it hitting a blazing hot 89F for 2 days somewhere

 

[ATMSpeedShop]

"Best" is truly subjective. In what way and for what purpose? People default to IATs as "the" measure, but they're completely relative. Which is "better": one with IATs of 125F peak for someone with inlet temps of 85F running 16psi (stock turbos) in 80F weather or 150F IATs peak with 140F inlet temps running 20psi (stock turbos) in 90F weather? The second scenario IC is doing much more work and may be more efficient than the first, may even be the same IC, but you'd never know it just looking at IATs. It might also be more restrictive, which may or may not matter, but you wouldn't see that looking at IATs either. Just saying, everyone jumps to logged IATs as the determining factor and it is only a relative measure.

Need turbo outlet temps and pressure, IC outlet temps and pressure, WGDC and ambient temps at a minimum. If trying to compare to another IC, need all those and overlaid boost/power curves for each. In this case, VD would be better for real-world airflow on the cores, but need to be really careful that logging is done as close to the same as possible.

Can't agree more with the above statement. As i said this is preliminary data, both cars are still undergoing tuning and we'll post more details as we get them. I do have more parameters for the 2nd log that I'll add asap.

But my point aligns with yours in a sense. Don't rule out a 5" stepped core just because, these logs don't show any inefficiency or bottleneck whatsoever up to this point. And there are several sets of independent logs out there of our core outperforming 7" cores. We're not claiming it's going to flow 1000hp (working on that solution ) but simply put, the design of the ATM core is unique and this makes it more efficient.

 

[RSL]

Can't agree more with the above statement. As i said this is preliminary data, both cars are still undergoing tuning and we'll post more details as we get them. I do have more parameters for the 2nd log that I'll add asap.

Just to be clear, I wasn’t pointing out any particular post with the rest of my post, just wanted to get in before there were 1000s logs of “mine only hits 112F” on first pull after cold start with no stops through 1 gear on a 65F day with 15psi on 19Ts

First sentence of my post was just to clarify that compressor efficiency is a large factor in what ICs need to handle and then what final IATs are. Intake temps and turbo efficiency can be the difference between 180F incoming air or 450F incoming air. One would be pretty easy for any decent IC to handle, the other, not so much.

 

[ATMSpeedShop]

2nd log updated......

 

[R.G.]

Agree, there are too many variables to deduce much from any snapshot.

18psi on a 6266, might as well have an air conditioner on the IC inlet lol

Regarding the 6266 log posted, the purpose of that log was for me to get a glimpse into the units efficiency in road course duty. If you look closely it is the last of a series of pulls. Comment seems counter intuitive to the rest of your post but figured I'd at least add a bit more context to that specific log.



The ATM IC has been a stand up performer. IAT's are not in the top 5-10 data points I usually worry myself with, even with ambient temps that are some of the nation's highest.

 

[RSL]

Agree, there are too many variables to deduce much from any snapshot.

Regarding the 6266 log posted, the purpose of that log was for me to get a glimpse into the units efficiency in road course duty. If you look closely it is the last of a series of pulls. Comment seems counter intuitive to the rest of your post but figured I'd at least add a bit more context to that specific log.

The ATM IC has been a stand up performer. IAT's are not in the top 5-10 data points I usually worry myself with, even with ambient temps that are some of the nation's highest.

I believe it, ATM was on my short list for a reason.

Thanks for the added context. In all honesty, barely looked at the log for more than 2 secs, just knew that was going to be pretty high efficiency on the comp (like it should be), especially compared to what some people run on stock turbos these days.

All those numbers I used were completely made up to illustrate the point that IATs are relative and dependent on factors other than the IC.

 

[suspenceful]

I have a VRSF 7.5" Race intercooler and love it! Here is a detailed review I wrote about it...

It came with new couplers, t-bolt clamps, and the lower hard pipe upgrade. Luckily, I already had my hard pipe upgrade installed with couplers from my previous VRSF intercooler. I left them all in place to save time and was able to just swap out intercoolers after trimming plastic to fit the larger intercooler. I kept the new supplied hardware to sell with my previous intercooler.

Let's first compare intercoolers. Stock vs. standard VRSF 7" vs. VRSF 7.5" Race intercooler.

Definitely larger and definitely heavier. Let's take a closer look at the fin density and cooling bar size.

Standard VRSF 7" intercooler:

New VRSF 7.5" Race intercooler:

Much better

now let's get this thing in the car!

It required A LOT of cutting and trimming. Seriously.

I thought this would be enough, but I was wrong. I had to cut even more before I could stuff this intercooler up in there. At least I was combating the weight of the heavier intercooler by removing tons of plastic, right?

Now that it's in, does it work?

My previous intercooler saw a 54° rise in intake temperature during a 28psi 60-130mph pull. The new intercooler only rose 5° during a similar pull with similar ambient temp. See light blue line on my logs.

Before:

After:

Overall, very happy with the results! I'd highly recommend the VRSF 7.5" Race intercooler to anyone looking to cool things down a bit. Aside from the trimming, I don't see any reason why you wouldn't choose this intercooler over their other options.

 

[Bmac]

I have an ATM. It's not the best for outright performance, but it is probably the best IC that doesn't require cutting. I don't need anything bigger. It gets hot here in the summer but you blink and it's winter again and -30* so...

 

[Brakthru]

Anybody have experience with the ARM 7 inch intercooler? In cant seem to any feedback accept for the reviews on the website. Im running fbo 22 psi stock turbos with Mishimito intercooler which does well most of the time. But i want something with better flow and cooling above 5k rpms. Its for a 335i e90.

 

[veer90]

I have VRSF 7.5 race. My intake temps were close to ambient with only a small fan on the dyno.

There's others running the same intercooler making way more power than me.

 

[Brakthru]

Thanks
I'm still on Stock twins. That boost! Wow 33.6psi!

 

[typedRew]

PSP 750ic

https://datazap.me/u/typedrew/v5-e40-345?log=0&data=3-13-14-22-23

20 degree rise from 30-130mph on e40 stage2+ map

 

[Silent11]

quick question.. i have a V1 5 inch vrsf with stock turbos at around 22 psi...my IATs start at 110F (ambient is 85-90F) at the drag strip and by the end of the run they are at 175F. needless to say, its losing major power in 3rd and 4th as timing drops to 6-7
i was thinking of going with 7.5 race vrsf fmic so i dont have to worry about IATs anymore.
i did run 11.5 @ 119 with the 5 inch
what can i expect with the 7.5 VRSF race fmic ?? knock a tenth off and gain couple mph ?
here is the log

Hide legend Reset zoom

 

[doublespaces]

Looks like you go from 104 to 165 F. Personally, I have the ADE 1K and its big. Seems the VRSF is very performant but it isn't made in America if that matters to you. Seems you're only losing a few degrees by the end of your run but I'm sure the power is taking a hit, 21 PSI of hot air and with IAT's that high I begin to worry about the fuel octane. Is this just pump gas?

Also thank you for uploading your log to SpoolStreet's Datalog section. Trying to read logs on the other site makes me want to break my phone.

 

[Silent11]

Looks like you go from 104 to 165 F. Personally, I have the ADE 1K and its big. Seems the VRSF is very performant but it isn't made in America if that matters to you. Seems you're only losing a few degrees by the end of your run but I'm sure the power is taking a hit, 21 PSI of hot air and with IAT's that high I begin to worry about the fuel octane. Is this just pump gas?

Also thank you for uploading your log to SpoolStreet's Datalog section. Trying to read logs on the other site makes me want to break my phone.

it is a E50 custom tune and i only see timing drops at the track in 3rd and 4th gear, same with timing pulls in most cylinders only when the IATs get that high.

 

[doublespaces]

it is a E50 custom tune and i only see timing drops at the track in 3rd and 4th gear, same with timing pulls in most cylinders only when the IATs get that high.

A 2/3/4 WOT run gets tough by 4th gear, are you saying you don't get this on the street? Personally, I think you should upgrade that intercooler regardless of what sort of improvement in times you'll see. Those temps are getting up there, I'd be curious to see the outcome since you have a nice relatively clean 'before' log to reference.

 

[Silent11]

A 2/3/4 WOT run gets tough by 4th gear, are you saying you don't get this on the street? Personally, I think you should upgrade that intercooler regardless of what sort of improvement in times you'll see. Those temps are getting up there, I'd be curious to see the outcome since you have a nice relatively clean 'before' log to reference.

IATs def. climb up on the street as well, but combining the wait in the lines and burnout the IATs get up there before i even launch it.
That day it was 76F at the track and 104f when i launched so it gets heat soaked easily. 7.5 fmic is already on the way and i should know in 2 weeks how much it helped in the 1/4 . Thanks for your help !!