Technical Vargas turbos.. yes or no?

martymil

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Sep 6, 2017
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I got a set of the new vtt frb's to try out, the reason we are changing my last set is they won't work without the current v band setup and rhd outlet pipe.

Haven't heard any bad experiences with them except positive results thus far.

If your not in a hurry wait a few months and not rush into something you might regret.
 

_Calle_

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Jul 7, 2017
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If you want a solid system, go ST.
Running the Speedtech ST with a GTW3684R. And I love it.
21PSI @ around 3050RPM.
6.22 @ 100-200kph (MT)
Only DI

1614507124369.png
 
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JohnDaviz

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Jan 6, 2019
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ST is surely great but for a performance like the one you present and spending at least double the money vs. just getting Hydras/VTT F-RB/RB GF? o_O
 

JohnDaviz

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Jan 6, 2019
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As a grown up you shouldn´t be offended so quickly and being able to discuss on an adult level.

I am happy with my performance and looking at your log you are not at 21 psi. Up top probably 23?
And your car is even lighter than mine if it is the 1 series as in your profile picture.
I am going 6.4 with 19-20.8 psi. So my car will probably be below 6s at your boost curve.

ST and TT at the same quality level will cost the same? o_O

HP650 is round about 3k Dollar with inlets and Heatshield.

ST?
- Exhaust Manifold
- Turbo
- Lines
- Plugs
- Boost Controller
- Mac Solenoid
- ...

I know germans have issues with english. I don´t dislike your built. It looks quality. But that route is not necessary for a 6s 100-200kph car.
 

_Calle_

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Jul 7, 2017
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I´m running 21 PSI to 22PSI at redline. so about 1PSI more than you.
Someone running more boost and the other more timing, it is depends on the tune.
Car weight is 3400lb and MT, the 3 series is about 3600lb? and your Car is AT?

HP650
inlets
outlet
gaskets
heatshield
oil lines

is about $5400 in Germany


Speedtech Kit (comes with all you need)
GTW3684R
Turbosmart Wastegate
MAC
Boost controller

cost me around $5800 in Germany inc. taxes

I agree with you, my build is not the cheapest, but as you say it´s quality.
Everyone has to know for themselves he wants to build. You get what you pay for.

With twins you have often problems with silicon inlets and outlets and with failure on many upgrade turbos regarding the small center section.
And changing the TT inlets horrible. Or you put out the engine.
The install of a ST is easier and need a little bit less time.


I know my englisch is not the best 🙄
 
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Asbjorn

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Mar 10, 2018
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The F-RBs are a new product. It is probably too early to evaluate their reliability.

While the 1.0s were a miss, the v2.0 lites with MarM wheels have been reliable on track for me (at 16-17psi). Would I have been better off with regular stage 2s? Maybe! But given your power goal, you probably cannot consider those. Anyhow, the cast manifolds emit alot of heat, so just keep that in mind.

What I see is a company that tried to be a first mover, then learned and improved from their early mistakes. My car can certainly attest to that. Now they have tried to improve even further on what is on my car, and whether you trust them or not is really up to your own judgement.

Put them on your shortlist. Have a conversation with Tony as well as all the others that are active. Listen to as many people as you can before making your decision.
 

miksebik

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Feb 27, 2021
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Guys, so much feedback! Thank you! I am in contact with Omar, asked for an offer from RB but the more I read about this HP650 the more it looks like my choice. I would like to have the car ready for season (April).. Going ST might be very tempting as I would be probably the only person in my country but as I invested to M3 steering, CSF watercooler, PTB twinclutch VRSF IC this winter.. I do not think I would find excuse for such expense :)
 
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miksebik

Private
Feb 27, 2021
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If you want a solid system, go ST.
Running the Speedtech ST with a GTW3684R. And I love it.
21PSI @ around 3050RPM.
6.22 @ 100-200kph (MT)
Only DI

View attachment 49610
would you provide the link to the log? Interesting, as I have not seen such early-spooling ST.
The HP650 is not that expensive but I see the point. Once the ST is in, you have much less issues than a typical N54 rider.
 

JohnDaviz

Sergeant
Jan 6, 2019
356
202
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335i E92 DCT
I´m running 21 PSI to 22PSI at redline. so about 1PSI more than you.
Someone running more boost and the other more timing, it is depends on the tune.
Car weight is 3400lb and MT, the 3 series is about 3600lb? and your Car is AT?

HP650
inlets
outlet
gaskets
heatshield
oil lines

is about $5400 in Germany


Speedtech Kit (comes with all you need)
GTW3684R
Turbosmart Wastegate
MAC
Boost controller

cost me around $5800 in Germany inc. taxes

I agree with you, my build is not the cheapest, but as you say it´s quality.
Everyone has to know for themselves he wants to build. You get what you pay for.

With twins you have often problems with silicon inlets and outlets and with failure on many upgrade turbos regarding the small center section.
And changing the TT inlets horrible. Or you put out the engine.
The install of a ST is easier and need a little bit less time.


I know my englisch is not the best 🙄

My car is 1700kg.

Buying Hydra turbos in Germany comes with a hefty premium. Being not in germany makes them nearly 1000 Dollar cheaper.
Yeah Inlets are a pain to install.
Oil lines don´t need to be bought new as a mandatory thing. Mine are fine so i kept them.

I guess if you are not in Germany you get away with less than 3400 Dollar (excluding customs) for the swap. Now the gap gets a lot bigger.

I was also thinking about ST but the HP650 are just sexy things and i could continue tuning MHD only.

One day or in another life i will go ST :D

would you provide the link to the log? Interesting, as I have not seen such early-spooling ST.
The HP650 is not that expensive but I see the point. Once the ST is in, you have much less issues than a typical N54 rider.

Always depends on the gear you are in. I am curious if this is 3rd or lower. Can´t imagine though.
 

Tedbuildiy

Corporal
Jan 9, 2020
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My car is 1700kg.

Buying Hydra turbos in Germany comes with a hefty premium. Being not in germany makes them nearly 1000 Dollar cheaper.
Yeah Inlets are a pain to install.
Oil lines don´t need to be bought new as a mandatory thing. Mine are fine so i kept them.

I guess if you are not in Germany you get away with less than 3400 Dollar (excluding customs) for the swap. Now the gap gets a lot bigger.

I was also thinking about ST but the HP650 are just sexy things and i could continue tuning MHD only.

One day or in another life i will go ST :D



Always depends on the gear you are in. I am curious if this is 3rd or lower. Can´t imagine though.
Sounds like you are in same boat as me, I really want ST. But was looking at the new VTT F-RB+

:/
 

Torgus

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Nov 6, 2016
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I agree a ST costs basically the same as upgraded twins when you add everything up. Unless you are buying no name Chinese noisy bois.


Sounds like you are in same boat as me, I really want ST. But was looking at the new VTT F-RB+

:/

Get a single. You will not be disappointed.
 
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RuskiRacer

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Jul 17, 2019
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I agree a ST costs basically the same as upgraded twins when you add everything up. Unless you are buying no name Chinese noisy bois.




Get a single. You will not be disappointed.
Ying yang spinny thangs still will cost you more over the long haul. There's not alot of big success storys on the 17/19ts. I think the biggest thing with cheap turbos like that is good quality oil and a steady stream of it.
 

scrllock

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Dec 17, 2018
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The hybrids in this space have been a race to the bottom for years now. You get what you pay for from VTT/RB/DAW/VIV etc. Hydra seems legit, Pure was great for me personally, and my shop recommends TTE if you have the money.

If anyone comes out with a twin g25 kit, that would be pretty interesting, otherwise VTT supposedly has a stage 3 twin gtx kit, but I've never found anyone who actually has one with verified numbers.
 

RuskiRacer

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Jul 17, 2019
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The hybrids in this space have been a race to the bottom for years now. You get what you pay for from VTT/RB/DAW/VIV etc. Hydra seems legit, Pure was great for me personally, and my shop recommends TTE if you have the money.

If anyone comes out with a twin g25 kit, that would be pretty interesting, otherwise VTT supposedly has a stage 3 twin gtx kit, but I've never found anyone who actually has one with verified numbers.
My friend with pure 600s blew his wastegate flapper off his rear turbo. Pure was prompt with sending him a replacement set though. So I mean theres risk with every hybrid turbo option.
 

fmorelli

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Aug 11, 2017
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My friend with pure 600s blew his wastegate flapper off his rear turbo. Pure was prompt with sending him a replacement set though. So I mean theres risk with every hybrid turbo option.
There's risk with ... well ... everything. Buddy installed a new VDO water pump and it died in 6 months. Shit happens with everything. Generally speaking, Pure has had a pretty good rep. The other thing - the problems always get reported (and amplified), the smooth product experiences are typically not a topic of interest; and they definitely don't get amplified in my opinion.

If it was not such a pain in the butt to pull turbos, we'd probably be less cranky about hybrid reliability/needing work. There are lots of nice ST choices, for sure. I'm optimistic that my Hydra's will do what I want.

Filippo
 
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miksebik

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Feb 27, 2021
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In the end the customer service is very important. My friend bought the MMP 1k years ago and says Mauricio disappeared since few months.. I already wrote my story of a N55 pushed to 500HP where the Pure turbo blew after few hundreds km. But they repaired it for the shipping costs to the US (200eur). With TTE I am sure it would be OK, unfortunately I am not convinced about the power curve. On every dyno log I saw the torque heading down in high rpms quite fast.
Hydra seems nice and even my tuner from Motiv gave his blessing :)
 

Tedbuildiy

Corporal
Jan 9, 2020
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Ride
335i
I agree a ST costs basically the same as upgraded twins when you add everything up. Unless you are buying no name Chinese noisy bois.




Get a single. You will not be disappointed.
Yeah the problem so far. Is the bottom mount for RHD. Because top mount in UK is a bit of a pain in the ass