Shorted CanBus/PWR Wire for CIC CID & Now Lost all Interior Power & INPA Comm.

Nov 8, 2016
20
4
0
NY
I wasnt going to start a new thread but im having an issue, that i just can NOT figure out...

I have no power to my interior (E92). No gauges, Gauges, Guage Cluster screen, and there's a constant "relay clicking" noise coming from the JBE area every 5 seconds or so. And currently this will kill the battery overnight, if i do not disconnect the battery after trying to diagnose the car for the day.

The battery is fairly new, was working perfectly before this, and has been voltage and load tested to be sure.

However, usually when i have an issue with a car, i dont know the cause. In this case i accidentally caused the problem
frown.gif


I was doing a CCC to CIC retrofit, i thought the battery was disconnected, but it was not. i was changing the CCC CID power connector to the newer style CIC power connector. i had the pins of the wires pulled from my old CID connector and the wires were able to touch each other for a few second, when i pulled them closer to push the pins into the new CIC CID Power Connector, before i was able to finally separate the wires from each other..

Now immediately after this happened, (wires touching together), the windshield wipers came on by themselves on full speed, and i could not control them with the steering wheel stalk, so i quickly found the wiper relay behind the glove box, in the fuse box and pulled the wiper relay. That stopped the wipers from going full speed on their own, whenever the battery was connected, key fob in/out & ignition on/off, had no effect.

Now im able to start the engine, but i have no idea whats going on with it bc i have a full non-working gauge cluster.. No RPM, Oil Temp, Check Engine Light, nothing. the whole HVAC controller is dead as well and does nothing.

i tried connectiong to the car to see what codes it might have and whatever i do, I CANNOT connect to my car anymore with INPA or Ista/D..

So far ive checked every single fuse in the interior fuse box, i checked that all the battery connections were good, and i checked and i do have +12v under the hood at the jump start block and i do have power to the fuse box.

I also tried to eleiminate the IBS as an issue so i disconnected the IBS data lead to the dme and the +12v connector. Checked the positive battery post, fuse block located on-top of the battery (Red plastic "Box" power distru-box with fuse-able links on top of the battery).

After all this, i figured maybe i ruined my JBE or Fuse Box, so i found a part-out car with basically the same specs as mine and swapped out the entire fuse box and the JBE bolted to it.. (My car is a 09/2006 Build Date car, so it has the early style Fuse Box which uses a direct stud style connection for the main power lead and is therefore not part of the Recall, most other E90/E92 335i's fall under that recall and almost have a similar issue that i have. But i have verified i have voltage at my fuses and the Main Power Connector to the JBE/JBBE/FUSE BOX.

Im beginning to believe that the K-can bus wires, for the CID power plug, touched the +12v/-12v power wires. Did i short out the Kcan bus and thats why i cant communicate with the car?

What does work:

Key-Fob Unlock Button will turn on interior lights, but not activate power locks
Power Windows, but only from the DS switch (LHD Car)
Sunroof opens normally
Dome and Map Lights
The old CCC HU when plugged in, i press the power button, and i get static from the FM radio being on..
So it seems the Audio System works fine. When CCC HU is out, i see the Red Light come on for the Fiber-Loop
I havent plugged in any of the new CIC parts, bc im afraid they could be damaged.
So no screen is installed right now to see what possible errors it will bring up (I can do this if someone feels like it will help) The CCC HU, CCC/CIC CID, Idrive Knob, and HVAC panel are disconnected to rule things out, no chages.
CID power connector still has power, no fuses blew.... (HOW IS THIS?)
The headlights work fine, including the interior lighting when headlights are on, button backlighting, etc
The Start Button does work and does change the BATTERY & IGNITION Black Dots in INPA
Engine starts, but seems to be in a limp mode


Noteable things that dont work:

PS Window Switch
Central Locking Button
Power Locks via key fob
Hazards/Turn Signal Stalk
HVAC
Gauge Cluster


Where do i start to diagnose this? Ive been looking into this for a month now. No one has ever seem to have the same issue as me. I also cant find any information on troubleshooting the K-can Bus. My car is pre -03/2007, so no D-Can, as far as i know at least.

I recently picked up a Bentley Manual, but havent had a chance to look thru it yet.

After doing some research, it seems like i have a short in the CANBUS somewhere or there is an error with the CANBUS system, or a module connected to the CANBUS shorted out internally or just went bad bc of the voltage spike...

any suggestions would be greatly appreciated, because im not extremely familiar with this side of the car, but i am good with electronics and if anyone has anything i can test with a multimeter that would be great!

Thanks!
 

Bmwfixerguy1

Lieutenant
Jun 5, 2017
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I did not read the whole thing but as simple as it sounds you may have a fuse blow in the JBE

Your wipers are going because they are in fail safe from lost communication with the szl.

To start since your kinda doing this as a diy I'd run down the JBE fuses with a meter and start checking power on both legs of all fuses. Start there and report back and I'll see if I can help out a little more once I'm in work in front of an ista session
 
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Bmwfixerguy1

Lieutenant
Jun 5, 2017
873
288
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Sorry I just got home and read h whole post.. so that rules that out I suppose.

Put can check your KCAN wires and they should equal 5V.
If I remember correctly thats"KCAN 1" not the newer KCAN 2 where you have a 2.5v high and low.
Pretty sure you should have like a plus 4v on high and say .8v or so on "low"

You can grab that at any module connector. That will let us know if we have any KCAN activity without a scope. The message int important at this point in time.

Like I said I'll do my best to help while I'm at home if you feeling ambitious tonight ;)
 
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Nov 8, 2016
20
4
0
NY
Sorry I just got home and read h whole post.. so that rules that out I suppose.

Put can check your KCAN wires and they should equal 5V.
If I remember correctly thats"KCAN 1" not the newer KCAN 2 where you have a 2.5v high and low.
Pretty sure you should have like a plus 4v on high and say .8v or so on "low"

You can grab that at any module connector. That will let us know if we have any KCAN activity without a scope. The message int important at this point in time.

Like I said I'll do my best to help while I'm at home if you feeling ambitious tonight ;)

So i want to check voltage between K-CanH to Ground? Or K-CanH to K-CanL?
 
Nov 8, 2016
20
4
0
NY
Looks like cas is affected. Seems to have issues switching terminals - kl15/kl30 etc...

It does seem like that could be a possibility. It's turning on voltage to one of those main internal relays, coil side, and it then seems to think there's an overload condition and it kills power to the Relay. And then it repeats itself over and over.. bc of a wake-up command maybe?
 

JuniorB

Sergeant
May 9, 2017
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Rhode Island
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07 e60
Maybe this will help, as I'm not 100% on the modules, but I can tell you this about the wiring. The power wire that touched ground isn't fused, as you found out, cluster power is usually a non fused 10-14 gauge wire. That wire is probably melted, or charred and needs th be replaced. It's usually not the whole wire as it will burn to nothing until it looses power. It's very doubtful any of the other wires are affected as they are fused. Now , weather or not the cluster is burnt, after repairing the wire and verifying that's your getting power to it is the only way to tell. Unless you repair the wire and cluster. Hope this helps.
 
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Nov 8, 2016
20
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NY
Sorry I just got home and read h whole post.. so that rules that out I suppose.

Put can check your KCAN wires and they should equal 5V.
If I remember correctly thats"KCAN 1" not the newer KCAN 2 where you have a 2.5v high and low.
Pretty sure you should have like a plus 4v on high and say .8v or so on "low"

You can grab that at any module connector. That will let us know if we have any KCAN activity without a scope. The message int important at this point in time.

Like I said I'll do my best to help while I'm at home if you feeling ambitious tonight ;)

Ok so i did check voltage on the KCAN & I am getting around 4v on KCAN-H and around 1v on KCAN-L. Which like you said is like the earlier KCAN1.

I appreciate the help so far!

Maybe this will help, as I'm not 100% on the modules, but I can tell you this about the wiring. The power wire that touched ground isn't fused, as you found out, cluster power is usually a non fused 10-14 gauge wire. That wire is probably melted, or charred and needs th be replaced. It's usually not the whole wire as it will burn to nothing until it looses power. It's very doubtful any of the other wires are affected as they are fused. Now , weather or not the cluster is burnt, after repairing the wire and verifying that's your getting power to it is the only way to tell. Unless you repair the wire and cluster. Hope this helps.

That is something that i could not understand.. How could this wire not be fused at some point, but it wasnt like you said. I noticed right away when it still had voltage on the actual wire itself after the fact, that either the fuse did not do its job or its not fused for some reason.

I will have to look into the power wire for the cluster, bc i believe we checked for power at the connector with the cluster disconnected and there was a +12v and a GND. But now you have ,e second guessing myself and will have to verify that one more time.

The odd part though, is the OBD2 Port wire on Pin#7 (BMW changed the wiring design and pin outputs for this wire 3 times). I have the original design which basically, according to the wiriing diagrams i could find, is a power wire from the JBE and uses a regular chassis ground. (09/2006<-->9?/2007)

09?/2007> Mid-2008 -- Has a set up where the ground wire comes back to the JBE and is assigned its own pin on the JBE and is internally grounded. The power wire for the OBD2 port is also a different Pin# assignment.

Mid-year 2008 & Newer -- Goes back to the earlier wiring setup like my car, but these car's would have DCAN, as well as additional wires at the OBD2 port for Comm. (Wires necessary for coding, when retroftting a CIC to an early build date E9x..)

Thank you as well for the input, i really do appreciate it and to anyone else who has posted or helped in any way, thank you!
 
Nov 8, 2016
20
4
0
NY
I'm thinking there must be a melted/burnt wire somewhere which is causing these problems and causing me not to have the correct +12v at the OBD2 port, whenever the battery is connected. I wonder if the Red/Ylw wire for OBD2 Port power feed (pin#7), is ran up to the area behind the gauge cluster and feeds the instrument cluster via Fuse 58, fed by TERM.30

B/c the pin# and connector location for the OBD2 PORT PWR Feed on the JBE side is actually supposed to be getting power from that same Fuse.. Which just so happens to have a small pic of an instrument cluster in the little white fuse card from bmw in the fuse box behind the glove box...

However, i have the dashboard out, and cant seem to find anything yet. I still need to do a proper troubleshooting during the day when i have time bc ive been very limited with time recently..
 

Bmwfixerguy1

Lieutenant
Jun 5, 2017
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Using your resources suck ass. You need an isid so you can click the hot spots and not have to guess. I feel for ya buddy but really hrs to help online like this
 
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Nov 8, 2016
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NY
i do appreciate all the help and input from so many.. I know the info im giving is sort of irrelevant, but im hoping maybe someone see's my issue and had a similar problem, and has some advice or maybe what silimalr issues they had, and what was done to fix it.. or even where the work being done was.. whether they fixed it or a dealer/shop ended up dealing with it, even someone just saying oh i remember dealer saying there was a common failure point for the main power supply wiring for terminal 30 that will melt/burn when it is shorted out.

I do have ISTA/d. I'm currently only able to use it for trying to find related wiring diagrams, bc after all this happened, my car will no longer connect at all to ISTA or INPA.

I havent had a chance recently to work on the car again since, but i have removed the dashboard. After doing that i was quickly looking in the obvious places for a damaged wire, but it was dark out, and i didnt get to look at the car again.

i do plan to work on the car this week, hopefully tomorrow, the rest of the week, and i finally have some free time this weekend to really put some time into figuring this out, once and for all. So anythingg for me to look into, that is being suggested, i will.

Does anyone have a clear wiring diagram for a 09/2006 E92 335i for both the JBE connectors and the OBDll Port. So far, even on ISTA, the wiring diagrams arent really that comprehensive, but more importantly the pin#'s are not correct, when comparing the pin-out diagram, to the car's actual wiring harness...
 

JuniorB

Sergeant
May 9, 2017
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Rhode Island
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Hey, did you ever resolve this? I just happen to be doing a nav retrofit and found were all the wires goes, I can give you a better insight as to were to look for sources.,
 
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