Who’s doing a DCT swap ?

aus335iguy

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So given that we can now have m3 drivelogic, adjustable launch control with anti lag and the ability to vary the final drive using an M3 diff who is now contemplating a DCT swap when they weren’t before ?

Edit - @jyamona thinks hes now found the final drive spec in the DME which helps those who dont want to M3 swap shifter et. al. Still early days and hes looking for people with final drive issues so get in touch.
He’s also found a DSC toggle that may mean single press DSC completely off may be possible. Is there anything this guy cant do ? :)
 
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mad1stgen

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I've done couple N52->N54T+DCT conversions, but always retained the DME/CAS/KOMBI/DKG from the same car.

How is the DKG ISN miss-match taken care of when swapping DCT into a different car ? I'm pretty sure it's just like the new 8HP transmissions ... it has to match or the car won't start.
 

aus335iguy

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I've done couple N52->N54T+DCT conversions, but always retained the DME/CAS/KOMBI/DKG from the same car.

How is the DKG ISN miss-match taken care of when swapping DCT into a different car ? I'm pretty sure it's just like the new 8HP transmissions ... it has to match or the car won't start.

There are others that have done this and i dont recall them moving all those modules over.
 

mad1stgen

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Sorry if I caused any confusion. In my case it was required due to engine/trans change.

For a simple auto -> DCT swap it shouldn't be required, but just wondering how one can change the ISN in the DKG module. I was under the impression those modules are locked. I know of several instances where even a simple DCT -> another used DCT swap was impossible unless the whole mechatronics/DKG module was retained from the old trans.
 

aus335iguy

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Sorry if I caused any confusion. In my case it was required due to engine/trans change.

For a simple auto -> DCT swap it shouldn't be required, but just wondering how one can change the ISN in the DKG module. I was under the impression those modules are locked. I know of several instances where even a simple DCT -> another used DCT swap was impossible unless the whole mechatronics/DKG module was retained from the old trans.
What issues does it cause specifically ? Has anyone found a way around it?
How can it not affect cars that started out as autos then?
Ive heard this but that would mean that everyone has to buy a new TCU if theirs goes bad and i dont think that’s the case at all ... ??
 
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doublespaces

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According to: https://bmw.spoolstreet.com/documents/6at-to-dct-converstion.10/

This is the what needs done:
Code:
Part6 Programming and Coding
I use NCS Expert and Win KFP to program and code my car
Remove FA $205
Remove value that starts # and Add #0909
Add FA $2TC
Make FA write on CAS and NFRM
Code ECU: MSD81/CAS/Kombi/IHK/JBFE/NFRM/GWS
Program MSD81 on Zub 7628542
Program GS40 on Zub 7600042
Update you Kombi/NFRM/GWS

I know of several instances where even a simple DCT -> another used DCT swap was impossible unless the whole mechatronics/DKG module was retained from the old trans.

I think it is assumed that the transmission is swapped along with its mechatronics. Why would you take that off anyway?

The DME is require in cases where the car does not have an MSD81. Older cars require more items like getting rid of the MSD80. And to MSD80 swap, you used to and may still need to swap the CAS along with it. But I think we've made progress on that front with all the DME swapping going on, but I'm not certain of the process. @Levanime would know.
 
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mad1stgen

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What issues does it cause specifically ? Has anyone found a way around it?
How can it not affect cars that started out as autos then?
Ive heard this but that would mean that everyone has to buy a new TCU if theirs goes bad and i dont think that’s the case at all ... ??

I believe the EGS in DCT is part of the EWS4 system, so it has to match CAS/DME. There was an instance in Australia actually, where a 135i DCT owner needed a replacement transmission, and they couldn't make a used one work, even with extensive direct programming/coding. I'll try and dig up the link...

Basically, if the rolling code doesn't match, the car will start, but you won't be able to shift it out of park.

According to: https://bmw.spoolstreet.com/documents/6at-to-dct-converstion.10/

This is the what needs done:
Code:
Part6 Programming and Coding
I use NCS Expert and Win KFP to program and code my car
Remove FA $205
Remove value that starts # and Add #0909
Add FA $2TC
Make FA write on CAS and NFRM
Code ECU: MSD81/CAS/Kombi/IHK/JBFE/NFRM/GWS
Program MSD81 on Zub 7628542
Program GS40 on Zub 7600042
Update you Kombi/NFRM/GWS



I think it is assumed that the transmission is swapped along with its mechatronics. Why would you take that off anyway?

The DME is require in cases where the car does not have an MSD81. Older cars require more items like getting rid of the MSD80. And to MSD80 swap, you used to and may still need to swap the CAS along with it. But I think we've made progress on that front with all the DME swapping going on, but I'm not certain of the process. @Levanime would know.

Yeah, I know Oleg's swap. It was probably the very first one. Not sure how many other DCT swaps have been completed since. Hopefully the steps he describes EGS programming wise are sufficient. It does sound simple enough.
 

dyezak

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I believe the EGS in DCT is part of the EWS4 system, so it has to match CAS/DME. There was an instance in Australia actually, where a 135i DCT owner needed a replacement transmission, and they couldn't make a used one work, even with extensive direct programming/coding. I'll try and dig up the link...

Basically, if the rolling code doesn't match, the car will start, but you won't be able to shift it out of park.

Yeah, I know Oleg's swap. It was probably the very first one. Not sure how many other DCT swaps have been completed since. Hopefully the steps he describes EGS programming wise are sufficient. It does sound simple enough.

The EWS4 keys only live in the CAS, DME and EGS. There are tons of other modules involved in the start sequence, but the EWS4 which is the security mechanisim only prevents startup. If your car starts then EWS4 isn't the problem. If the problem is the trans won't shift out of park there's something else amis.

You are probably talking about the "Gearbox Enable" which is the CAS sending a separate key to the DKG to allow the transmission to function. From my understanding this isn't unique to the car itself but to the chassis. So any e90 DCT should work in any other e90. But if you try and cross chassis you might see a problem:

Gearbox Enable The enable is based on a procedure similar to that used for EWS 3. As from "Terminal 15 ON", the CAS 3 sends encrypted individual codes to the electronic transmission control. The electronic transmission control deciphers and checks these individual codes. If the check is successful, the gearbox control unit will enable the gearbox functions. The electronic gearbox control unit forms a pair of control units together with the CAS 3. Start Value Matching A start value matching procedure between the CAS 3 and the electronic transmission control is performed on the assembly line. As part of this procedure, the CAS 3 transfers in encrypted form an individual code to the electronic transmission control. Consequently, the electronic transmission control knows the individual code and can check whether the gearbox functions can be enabled.

http://www.meeknet.co.uk/E64/04_Car Access Systems.pdf
 

jyamona

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Update: DSC off launches work great (video in the comments of my post on facebook), final drive needs more digging but will be possible one way or another.
 
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mad1stgen

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The EWS4 keys only live in the CAS, DME and EGS. There are tons of other modules involved in the start sequence, but the EWS4 which is the security mechanisim only prevents startup. If your car starts then EWS4 isn't the problem. If the problem is the trans won't shift out of park there's something else amis.

You are probably talking about the "Gearbox Enable" which is the CAS sending a separate key to the DKG to allow the transmission to function. From my understanding this isn't unique to the car itself but to the chassis. So any e90 DCT should work in any other e90. But if you try and cross chassis you might see a problem:

Gearbox Enable The enable is based on a procedure similar to that used for EWS 3. As from "Terminal 15 ON", the CAS 3 sends encrypted individual codes to the electronic transmission control. The electronic transmission control deciphers and checks these individual codes. If the check is successful, the gearbox control unit will enable the gearbox functions. The electronic gearbox control unit forms a pair of control units together with the CAS 3. Start Value Matching A start value matching procedure between the CAS 3 and the electronic transmission control is performed on the assembly line. As part of this procedure, the CAS 3 transfers in encrypted form an individual code to the electronic transmission control. Consequently, the electronic transmission control knows the individual code and can check whether the gearbox functions can be enabled.

http://www.meeknet.co.uk/E64/04_Car Access Systems.pdf

Great info. And yes, it's Gearbox Enable. First time we encoutered it was on F10 chassis, while replacing a damaged transmission (8HP). The car would start without issues, but it wouldn't shift into any gear (out of park). The only way to make a used trans (also from another F10 mind you) work was to swap the EGS from the old (damaged) trans. So that the CAS -> DKG check was possible.

Quote from the doc you linked:
Control Unit Replacement A defect in the control units belonging to the EWS represents a challenge for the service technician. Since a defective control unit cannot be replaced by control units from other vehicles particular care is necessary when performing the diagnostic procedure. A control unit can be ordered through the Parts department. However, it is important to bear in mind that the digital engine electronics (DME) and the CAS 3 are supplied already coded to the vehicle. This has the advantage that only the control unit is replaced and the matching procedure with the electronic vehicle immobilizer is not necessary. There is no point in ordering a control unit to be kept in stock as the secret key is assigned to the control unit and the vehicle. A matching procedure is necessary for the electronic transmission control after replacement. As part of this procedure, the CAS 3 transfers the individual code to the electronic transmission control.
 

doublespaces

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I believe the EGS in DCT is part of the EWS4 system, so it has to match CAS/DME. There was an instance in Australia actually, where a 135i DCT owner needed a replacement transmission, and they couldn't make a used one work, even with extensive direct programming/coding.

Oh yes the EGS. That would be separate, however I've not been made aware of this being an issue since Oleg has made the swap instructions, and yes, pretty sure he was the very first about four or five years ago.
 

doublespaces

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If anyone wants to do a swap in a 1 series, I've got the trim, knob, gws, park locket etc for sale. I found out the knob from a 1 series doesn't work with a 3 series shift trim and usually the scrap yards only want to sell all this stuff together.
 

Torgus

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What is the full cost for the swap in general? I assume this is like most tranny swaps where it only makes sense if you are so modified it does not make sense to go back to stock. Aka single turbo, full suspension, fueling, etc.

Fbo stock turbos you would be better off finding the car and transmission you want is my bet.
 

m_a_itani

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I've done couple N52->N54T+DCT conversions, but always retained the DME/CAS/KOMBI/DKG from the same car.

How is the DKG ISN miss-match taken care of when swapping DCT into a different car ? I'm pretty sure it's just like the new 8HP transmissions ... it has to match or the car won't start.
can N55 dct work on N54 engine for the swap?
 

carabuser

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Has anyone solved the problem of targeting above 1.28 bar without using sensor scaling? That seems like a big issue holding the transmission back.
 

Dipp

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Oct 11, 2020
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So given that we can now have m3 drivelogic, adjustable launch control with anti lag and the ability to vary the final drive using an M3 diff who is now contemplating a DCT swap when they weren’t before ?

Edit - @jyamona thinks hes now found the final drive spec in the DME which helps those who dont want to M3 swap shifter et. al. Still early days and hes looking for people with final drive issues so get in touch.
He’s also found a DSC toggle that may mean single press DSC completely off may be possible. Is there anything this guy cant do ? :)

im currently doing my homework on it to install in my e90 335i