which meth kit should I buy

LudoN54

Specialist
Mar 9, 2020
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in fact I also think, given my project that it will be sufficient
I can't find any pictures of the pipe with the nozzles

what is your goal ?
Trust me, charge pipe injection is OK, but definitely not the best as methanol distribution will not be fair on all cylinders

usually, charge pipe comes with holes to plug methanol nozzle
 

LudoN54

Specialist
Mar 9, 2020
53
13
0
thank you very much for your return ... my head smokes a little against lol
I'm struggling a bit with google translate to try to understand the technical terms.
your feedback is very informative and thanks to you I am convinced by aquamist.
the choice of nozzles still poses problems for me (I will finally understand)
I will re-read your message, look at the links and if I block again, I will send you a message
Go with a big one... 1340ml from prometh or devilsown is a good choice
Our fuel is so restrictive
 

typedRew

Sergeant
Feb 25, 2019
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2009 335i xDrive
what is your goal ?
Trust me, charge pipe injection is OK, but definitely not the best as methanol distribution will not be fair on all cylinders

usually, charge pipe comes with holes to plug methanol nozzle
It’s plenty fine for decent power. The distribution issue is far less of a problem than people make it out to be.
I’ve had both, not on N54, and logs were always similar. Not worth the extra cost or complication for most people.

if you’re going for huge power sure. But the distribution thing is really not a big deal for most.

run a lot of nozzle. The fuel will find the cylinders.
 
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LudoN54

Specialist
Mar 9, 2020
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It’s plenty fine for decent power. The distribution issue is far less of a problem than people make it out to be.
I’ve had both, not on N54, and logs were always similar. Not worth the extra cost or complication for most people.

if you’re going for huge power sure. But the distribution thing is really not a big deal for most.

run a lot of nozzle. The fuel will find the cylinders.

i'm the kind of guy that want to take most of everything...
on chargepipe injection i made 405whp FBO+meth stock turbo on the equivalent of your 91us pump gas
port injection led me to 445whp, there is nothing to add
 

seb.apprenti

Specialist
Nov 28, 2018
97
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43
reunion island
Ride
335 i e92
I may have started by describing my project and my objectives
I must buy a 335i n54 DCT hopefully early next year
the objective would be to reach 600 ++ hp on the wheels
I am thinking of taking 17 t twins, putting the index 12 injectors, intercooler "type evo3" one or two walbro 450 (to be determined) with ekpm3
inlets / outlets and of course the meth kit because here I only have sp95 (eur)
then I have to find someone to make me one or more maps
 

typedRew

Sergeant
Feb 25, 2019
404
213
0
Ride
2009 335i xDrive
i'm the kind of guy that want to take most of everything...
on chargepipe injection i made 405whp FBO+meth stock turbo on the equivalent of your 91us pump gas
port injection led me to 445whp, there is nothing to add
Same tune? Same dyno? Same day? Same strap down? Same DA? Same correction factor? Same dyno operator? Same meth nozzles? Same amount of flow?

there’s no reason for that gain aside from you’re simply injecting more methanol. in which case it makes perfect sense, the more meth you give the motor the less 91 it burns and it’s going to make more power.

There is more to add since people run 650+ with chargepipe meth without issue

you’re extremely limited situation is unique and definitely the exception, not the rule

edit. To be clear. Yes. Port is better. The talk we are having is how necessary is it at lower power levels. Might you have gains at 500-600? Sure. Is it worth the investment and complication? Most likely not.
 
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seb.apprenti

Specialist
Nov 28, 2018
97
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reunion island
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335 i e92
Same tune? Same dyno? Same day? Same strap down? Same DA? Same correction factor? Same dyno operator? Same meth nozzles? Same amount of flow?

there’s no reason for that gain aside from you’re simply injecting more methanol. in which case it makes perfect sense, the more meth you give the motor the less 91 it burns and it’s going to make more power.

There is more to add since people run 650+ with chargepipe meth without issue

you’re extremely limited situation is unique and definitely the exception, not the rule

edit. To be clear. Yes. Port is better. The talk we are having is how necessary is it at lower power levels. Might you have gains at 500-600? Sure. Is it worth the investment and complication? Most likely not.
if i aim for 600+, do you think two nozzles in the cp is enough, or should i think about a direct port?
 

seb.apprenti

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Nov 28, 2018
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2 in the CP.
this is good news for the wallet and the installation will be easier.
So we have to take a small nozzle and a large nozzle for progressive injection, or take two nozzles of identical sizes to really inject when it loads and when we need fuel?
maybe you have already explained it to me and I didn t understand ...
 

Torgus

Major
Nov 6, 2016
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ACF 6466 E92 + METH
You will pick a PSI for it to start injecting. So if you pick 12 PSI once your TMAP see's 12 PSI the meth pump will turn on and you start injecting. You don't want it too low otherwise you inject during daily driving wasting meth.


100% methanol, 20-25% methanol/fuel ratio or 1.5-2cc per BHP. 600whp would be say ~700 BHP so aquamist says you should be running 1050cc - 1400cc of meth. 700 x 1.5 = 1050, 700 x 2.0 = 1400.

Pump output is at 160psi(red line), subtract ~30PSI for your boost so you are at ~130 on the chart:

file.gif
jetrate-nc-bg4.gif



So you need two 1.0 jets or two 1.2 or one of each. Two 1.2s would be 1250cc. This is assuming 100% meth.

If you are going to run M50/W50 use this math 15-20% MW/fuel ratio or 1-1.5cc per BHP or 1050cc on the high end.

The pump can only supply 1500CC max. So you could add a 3rd nozzle if you wanted to go above 1250cc. Three .9s would be 1350cc on 100% meth.

Does this make sense?


Try reading this: http://xtremeracingtuning.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=415 Ignore the direct port stuff. But it still explains how to calc jet sizing in an easy way.
 
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seb.apprenti

Specialist
Nov 28, 2018
97
22
0
43
reunion island
Ride
335 i e92
You will pick a PSI for it to start injecting. So if you pick 12 PSI once your TMAP see's 12 PSI the meth pump will turn on and you start injecting. You don't want it too low otherwise you inject during daily driving wasting meth.


100% methanol, 20-25% methanol/fuel ratio or 1.5-2cc per BHP. 600whp would be say ~700 BHP so aquamist says you should be running 1050cc - 1400cc of meth. 700 x 1.5 = 1050, 700 x 2.0 = 1400.

Pump output is at 160psi(red line), subtract ~30PSI for your boost so you are at ~130 on the chart:

View attachment 41081View attachment 41082


So you need two 1.0 jets or two 1.2 or one of each. Two 1.2s would be 1250cc. This is assuming 100% meth.

If you are going to run M50/W50 use this math 15-20% MW/fuel ratio or 1-1.5cc per BHP or 1050cc on the high end.

The pump can only supply 1500CC max. So you could add a 3rd nozzle if you wanted to go above 1250cc. Three .9s would be 1350cc on 100% meth.

Does this make sense?


Try reading this: http://xtremeracingtuning.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=415 Ignore the direct port stuff. But it still explains how to calc jet sizing in an easy way.
thank you for your patience with me ...
it's starting to clear up lol
on average what is the flow rate of the injectors on n54?
since apparently that's what I'm missing
rather than taking a 3rd nozzle, can we choose the water pump upgrade option?
we keep two nozzles, and the possibility of having more flow ... if I understood correctly
 

LudoN54

Specialist
Mar 9, 2020
53
13
0
Same tune? Same dyno? Same day? Same strap down? Same DA? Same correction factor? Same dyno operator? Same meth nozzles? Same amount of flow?

there’s no reason for that gain aside from you’re simply injecting more methanol. in which case it makes perfect sense, the more meth you give the motor the less 91 it burns and it’s going to make more power.

There is more to add since people run 650+ with chargepipe meth without issue

you’re extremely limited situation is unique and definitely the exception, not the rule

edit. To be clear. Yes. Port is better. The talk we are having is how necessary is it at lower power levels. Might you have gains at 500-600? Sure. Is it worth the investment and complication? Most likely not.


YES, same dyno, not same day but same conditions, same dyno opérator, obviously different meth nozzles but same flow
slight change on the tune because we didn't had to correct the fact that some cylinders received less methanol, but same boost and same timing

people run 650+ but not on our sh*tty fuel...that's fact, a car or boat that makes 700 in the us will barely 600 here

i'm saying all this because seb.lapprenti is in the same extremely limited situation as i'm
 
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seb.apprenti

Specialist
Nov 28, 2018
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335 i e92
YES, same dyno, not same day but same conditions, same dyno opérator, obviously different meth nozzles but same flow
slight change on the tune because we didn't had to correct the fact that some cylinders received less methanol, but same boost and same timing

people run 650+ but not on our sh*tty fuel...that's fact, a car or boat that makes 700 in the us will barely 600 here

i'm saying all this because seb.lapprenti is in the same extremely limited situation as i'm
in fact, we have almost the same weather conditions and a fuel with few octanes ...
in any case thanks to the discussions and advice on this forum, my choice on the various performance parts is clarified.
the choice of turbos: ok
the choice of meth kit and nozzles: ok
now I have to know if I should put one or two L P F P
 

Torgus

Major
Nov 6, 2016
1,841
1,297
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Boston
Ride
ACF 6466 E92 + METH
in fact, we have almost the same weather conditions and a fuel with few octanes ...
in any case thanks to the discussions and advice on this forum, my choice on the various performance parts is clarified.
the choice of turbos: ok
the choice of meth kit and nozzles: ok
now I have to know if I should put one or two L P F P

Which turbos are you going with out of curiosity?
 

seb.apprenti

Specialist
Nov 28, 2018
97
22
0
43
reunion island
Ride
335 i e92
Which turbos are you going with out of curiosity?
I hope you won't laugh at me ...
I find that there are good returns on the 17 T
we will say that it is a good value for money ...
I saw a guy holding them at 26 psi then 30 psi without having any problems (for now)
I think that for my project it is sufficient, and it allows me to invest in an aquamist meth kit
I will not be able to put everything in high end
 

seb.apprenti

Specialist
Nov 28, 2018
97
22
0
43
reunion island
Ride
335 i e92
you arent going to be using ethanol, so one fuel pump is fine, your main additional fuel will be the methanol
seriously?
so even a 450 is not useful?
I thought I had to put one or two 450 with an EKPM3
if it's useless, I'll leave stock
guys frankly thank you for your advice
 

Torgus

Major
Nov 6, 2016
1,841
1,297
0
Boston
Ride
ACF 6466 E92 + METH
seriously?
so even a 450 is not useful?
I thought I had to put one or two 450 with an EKPM3
if it's useless, I'll leave stock
guys frankly thank you for your advice

I use a single walbro 450 and meth on my 6466.

You will run no ethanol so a single 450 or 535 should be fine. Ethanol needs 30% flow.

The stock fuel pump is not enough, at a minimum you need a walbro 450 and I would keep the bucket.
 
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