which meth kit should I buy

seb.apprenti

Specialist
Nov 28, 2018
97
22
0
43
reunion island
Ride
335 i e92
Good morning all
I need your help your opinion, your experience
let me explain: i live on the reunion island in the indian ocean, i plan to take a 335I dct N54 at the beginning of next year. this forum already helps me a lot to prepare this project
here there is no ethanol pump or sp98 (eur), but only sp95 (eur), so the only solution to increase performance is the meth kit.
I don't want a "jb4" box so which meth kit should I choose?
one or two nozzles, plate with 6 nozzles after the intake pipes?
those who already have a kit, which solution did you choose?
photos or links would be welcome
(I hope my message is clear because I use google translation. If it is not the case, I apologize)
 

seb.apprenti

Specialist
Nov 28, 2018
97
22
0
43
reunion island
Ride
335 i e92
I found that
does anyone know? it looks like the snow kit
 

LudoN54

Specialist
Mar 9, 2020
53
13
0
Hi bro,

i have the snow performance stage 2.5 kit
as you may know, i had to modifiy it to make it fit, but once it's done... it works very well
i would not chose nylon line for methanol application, braided stainless steel is a better option

the kit on your link has nylon line, and it doesn't come with the tank....otherwise it looks ok

i was first using the VC50 from my snow performance kit, then i switched to JB4 FSB but they basically works the same, i was expecting the JB4 to have better control on the meth flow, but....it doesn't
 
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seb.apprenti

Specialist
Nov 28, 2018
97
22
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43
reunion island
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335 i e92
the twisted tuning controller looks really good, the nozzles sold with the kit are those of snow
for the tank we find it separately
what size of nozzles to choose on a project with 600 ++ cv?
 

Torgus

Major
Nov 6, 2016
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Boston
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ACF 6466 E92 + METH
I run the aquamist HS4. In my opinion it is the best stand alone meth kit for the n54. It has all the safeties you want. It also comes with a gauge which you can turn meth on and off with, it will alert you if your meth tank is running low via a float switch, and shows you how much meth is flowing. If there is ever an issue with flow there is the FAV and the kit will open up the wastegate(s) saving your engine from going boom. My gauge is mounted in the front air vent tilted at me 15 degrees. Pic to come in the future. The vent gauge kit is made by ecs I believe.

Twisted has a nice kit but for whatever reason it is not rated for 100% methanol, you have to run water with it. I run 100% meth.

I currently spray around 1200cc into my charge pipe via two nozzles. Direct port is more complicated but if you install all the correct filters in line you should be ok, again assuming the kit has the right safeties, assuming the check balled nozzles have no issues. People usually still spray in their CP from what I have seen even when using DPMI.

I am on my phone but i will find an older post of mine that goes into how to correctly size your nozzles given your pump.

You also want a baffled meth tank. In tank filter prefered, than pump, next filter, fav, next smaller micron filter, than nozzles. NEVER use your windshield washer tank as your meth tank.

Use compression fittings vs. Push lock. It is safer.

I use a nylon line but I can see why people would upgrade to a stainless braided line. Small money.

Since I started to run meth I now keep a properly rated for extinguisher in my car incase the worse happens.
 

seb.apprenti

Specialist
Nov 28, 2018
97
22
0
43
reunion island
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335 i e92
thank you very much for your return
I have already seen good returns on aquamist
you work with 100% meth wow ....
so the nylon line is sufficient
do you still have pictures of your installation?
how much power do you have with your set up?

he just went to the aquamist website
I find the price correct compared to the quality of the material. The advantage, no need for a plate, just the charge pipe to modify
I choose the nozzles will be complicated I have the impression, but if you find a subject, I am a taker
the controller is complicated to install? the settings are made how?
 
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LudoN54

Specialist
Mar 9, 2020
53
13
0
nylon line can break my friend...trust me, go braided line for full peace of mind

i run 6x625ml + 325ml on charge pipe, 100% methanol
my goal is to be in the 800whp range
 
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typedRew

Sergeant
Feb 25, 2019
404
213
0
Ride
2009 335i xDrive
Nylon CAN break. But it usually doesnt. Ive been running meth injection on my cars since 2002. Hell even still have some of the same kit from that year. Have never had an issue with a nylon line.
 

LudoN54

Specialist
Mar 9, 2020
53
13
0
One of my nylon broke once on my other race car...but I’m glad to hear you never had issues
As I said... peace of mind
 

MoreBoost

Sergeant
Jul 27, 2017
334
135
0
Ride
335i
Nylon CAN break. But it usually doesnt. Ive been running meth injection on my cars since 2002. Hell even still have some of the same kit from that year. Have never had an issue with a nylon line.

Indeed. Would have to be faulty nylon as no meth pump could generate the pressures required to break nylon line. In which case steel lines can be faulty also. As can connections. Nylon is fine. I'm using it 5 years with no failures.
 

seb.apprenti

Specialist
Nov 28, 2018
97
22
0
43
reunion island
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335 i e92
aquamist really offers something good
in addition they have a forum with a lot of things, such as for example the wiring diagram ... I know what to expect

someone has pictures with nozzles installed on the charge pipe?
 

9krpmrx8

Sergeant
Nov 5, 2016
458
242
0
San Antonio, Texas
I run the AEM V2 kit and I have had no issues on my N55. I am just doing charge pipe injection but you could get a direct port setup from prometh.

1595254308358.png
 
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Torgus

Major
Nov 6, 2016
1,841
1,297
0
Boston
Ride
ACF 6466 E92 + METH
aquamist really offers something good
in addition they have a forum with a lot of things, such as for example the wiring diagram ... I know what to expect

someone has pictures with nozzles installed on the charge pipe?

I posted this in 2 other threads a while ago but I will repost it here for you. Hopefully it helps. It is a bit of a long read...

There are POTs to adjust when the AM starts to inject meth/water. I have mine set at 15PSI, on stock twins I had it at 12 psi. You really don't want it injecting when driving around town. Only when you need it. Otherwise you just waste it and run the tank down for no good reason.

http://www.aquamist-direct.com/806-582-replacement-160psi-water-pump-for-hfs-2-3-4-6/ <--I run aquamist so it is what I am familiar with but I am sure there are other pumps that are similar. The pump can be adjusted to over 280 psi. 3000CC/min pump.

Power obeys the I/square law. If the bypass pressure is increased from 160psi to 250psi, the average current draw will increase from 7A to 11A. Power dissipation will be more than doubled. Using the I^2 R formula, the power will effectively increase from 49W to 121W under the same load (R). Power increase is proportional to operation temperature rise, the pump will run much hotter. Aquatec (manufacturer) advise against pressure over 180psi for long term reliability.




I installed my aquamist kit. If you have any questions while doing the install I am happy to help. As long as you follow the directions and set up as the install manual says it is the best meth kit on the market in my opinion. Tap the white stripped purple wire in front of the shifter for the gauge illumination, trust me you want it to work. I put mine in the DME compartment but you can also locate it in the glovebox. DME box just seems easier and it fits perfect and you have to make connections in there anyways. Harness is long enough to run into glovebox if you want. .

http://howertonengineering.com/calculating-jetting/ <--read this


View attachment 32787

Selecting the correct jet or jets for the required flow:
  • Calculate the "true" pressure by subtract the 160psi pump pressure by the "boost" pressure
  • Select the jet or jets from "true" pressure from the chart below (compensated).
  • Always pick the next size up or allow 10-15% more to allow more headroom.

For longevity they want the pumps to run under 180 psi. Dead head pressure vs. real life are different. So I agree and assume a 150psi - boost for an ideal nozzle. 20psi would be the 130 psi line. That is how I size my nozzles. If anyone has better logic let me know. You can always just flow your system and see what it really makes per min per nozzle.

http://www.aquamist-direct.com/806-401-twin-fav-direct-port-bundle-option/ <-- Just run a twin tank twin pumps if you need more flow and match your PSI exactly with the adjustable pump. Twin FAvs to your distro block. Run two 1500CC or 3000cc AM pumps at whatever PSI you want. Should be more than enough meth flow for an n54 and let you play around all you want with high PSI injection and have all the headroom you want.

100% methanol: 20-25% methanol/fuel ratio or 1.5-2cc per BHP. 600whp would be say ~700 BHP so aquamist says I should be running 1050cc - 1400cc of meth + 93 octane. I run roughly a 1000-1100CC in my CP with two nozzles last I checked and did the math. I should probably switch to direct port at some time but I think I am done with spending money on this platform. Once you go above 600whp you will need the larger 3000cc pump or two 1500cc pumps. Personally the single larger 3000cc pump probably makes the most sense.

I also do not see the need for a 3/8 line for meth. That is pretty large. Roughly 2x the size I would think you would need. You would have to step it down anyways at your flow sensor and FAV most likely unless there are some that accept a 3/8 line.

View attachment 22923

I just did all the math the other day as I was considering going direct port meth.

100% methanol, 20-25% methanol/fuel ratio or 1.5-2cc per BHP. 600whp would be say ~700 BHP so aquamist says you should be running 1050cc - 1400cc of meth.

Pump output is at 160, subtract 30PSI for your boost so you are at 130 on the chart. 0.4MM would be 140CC. 140CC x 6 = 840CC total. A bit low...I would suggest 0.5mm 180CC x 6 = 1080. You could also use 0.6MM and hit 1440CC but then you will not have enough flow for one in your CP(not essential)

Your stock pump can only flow 1500CC so you are still under. If you go with 0.5mm you can add one nozzle in the charepipe if you wish. As twisted said, it is not required. Normally for IAT cooling it is double the size of your DP jet, rule of thumb iirc, so 360CC would be the goal size the 0.8mm would probably make the most sense at 340CC. 0.9 is 380CC. or I guess you could spray 2 0.5mm in the CP for AIT cooling and hit 360CC exactly. 1080+ 380 = 1460 so that would max the pump as well and at the end of the day you would be spraying as much meth as the 0.6mm DP nozzles but potentially have worse distribution.

http://www.aquamist-direct.com/806-...igned-specially-for-direct-port-applications/
or
http://www.aquamist-direct.com/806-400-direct-port-bundle-options-this-shop-only/

If you want to keep all aquamist parts in your system. I plan on doing this mainly because of their reputation and I like more parts all from one vendor. I am sure the parts twisted offers are of similar quality etc and he also offers a full complete system with everything you need except a tank.

For a tank I vote to get a sump'd/baffled tank so you do not have pump starvation issues. This is what I use, two tanks, the baffled tank is what the pump draws from, other tank is to feed baffled tank, low fluid warning, LED indicator light, micron filter, pump, etc.

View attachment 22924

View attachment 22925

Be wary of unbaffled tanks:


Edit: the aquamist hs4 is the best designed meth injection kit for DI motors that I know of. But you do pay for it. I really like the failsafe that if there is a flow interruption etc it automatically opens the waste gates to save your engine. This is not spray n pray which is how some other less expensive kits do it. As with all port injection on top of DI make sure there are fail safes in place and you are using quality components.

All that being said pure meth dp injection seems to be the winner unless you have an easy e85 fill up. You also do not need 2 or 3 low pressure fuel pumps and everything else required to fuel 100% e85 aka overspinning the already weak HPFP. Just my thoughts.


Devil's own chart:

View attachment 32808

More PSI helps but it not needed unless you are trying to avoid running more nozzles. After 2-3 in your CP you should probably switch to DP anyways as you are flowing a good deal of meth most likely. I can't see an advantage in running smaller nozzles.

Here is any rough chart for approximately much to inject:
View attachment 32809


If anyone wants to run a fuck ton of meth this seems to be the bee knees of meth pumps: https://www.rbracing-rsr.com/waterinjection.html or https://www.miltonroy.com/applications/high-pressure-methanol-chemical-injection-applications/



I don't have a picture handy of my CP but it's pretty simple. You drill and then tap two holes directly across from each other before the TMAP. Install the aquamist bung w/ loctite. Install the appropriate nozzles. You always want to run more nozzles that are smaller vs less larger ones. You get much better atomization this way.


chargepipe injection will be enough for 90% of users, id start there and upgrade if necessary for future needs

I agree 100%
 
Last edited:

seb.apprenti

Specialist
Nov 28, 2018
97
22
0
43
reunion island
Ride
335 i e92
I posted this in 2 other threads a while ago but I will repost it here for you. Hopefully it helps. It is a bit of a long read...

There are POTs to adjust when the AM starts to inject meth/water. I have mine set at 15PSI, on stock twins I had it at 12 psi. You really don't want it injecting when driving around town. Only when you need it. Otherwise you just waste it and run the tank down for no good reason.

http://www.aquamist-direct.com/806-582-replacement-160psi-water-pump-for-hfs-2-3-4-6/ <--I run aquamist so it is what I am familiar with but I am sure there are other pumps that are similar. The pump can be adjusted to over 280 psi. 3000CC/min pump.

Power obeys the I/square law. If the bypass pressure is increased from 160psi to 250psi, the average current draw will increase from 7A to 11A. Power dissipation will be more than doubled. Using the I^2 R formula, the power will effectively increase from 49W to 121W under the same load (R). Power increase is proportional to operation temperature rise, the pump will run much hotter. Aquatec (manufacturer) advise against pressure over 180psi for long term reliability.




I installed my aquamist kit. If you have any questions while doing the install I am happy to help. As long as you follow the directions and set up as the install manual says it is the best meth kit on the market in my opinion. Tap the white stripped purple wire in front of the shifter for the gauge illumination, trust me you want it to work. I put mine in the DME compartment but you can also locate it in the glovebox. DME box just seems easier and it fits perfect and you have to make connections in there anyways. Harness is long enough to run into glovebox if you want. .

http://howertonengineering.com/calculating-jetting/ <--read this


View attachment 32787

Selecting the correct jet or jets for the required flow:
  • Calculate the "true" pressure by subtract the 160psi pump pressure by the "boost" pressure
  • Select the jet or jets from "true" pressure from the chart below (compensated).
  • Always pick the next size up or allow 10-15% more to allow more headroom.

For longevity they want the pumps to run under 180 psi. Dead head pressure vs. real life are different. So I agree and assume a 150psi - boost for an ideal nozzle. 20psi would be the 130 psi line. That is how I size my nozzles. If anyone has better logic let me know. You can always just flow your system and see what it really makes per min per nozzle.

http://www.aquamist-direct.com/806-401-twin-fav-direct-port-bundle-option/ <-- Just run a twin tank twin pumps if you need more flow and match your PSI exactly with the adjustable pump. Twin FAvs to your distro block. Run two 1500CC or 3000cc AM pumps at whatever PSI you want. Should be more than enough meth flow for an n54 and let you play around all you want with high PSI injection and have all the headroom you want.

100% methanol: 20-25% methanol/fuel ratio or 1.5-2cc per BHP. 600whp would be say ~700 BHP so aquamist says I should be running 1050cc - 1400cc of meth + 93 octane. I run roughly a 1000-1100CC in my CP with two nozzles last I checked and did the math. I should probably switch to direct port at some time but I think I am done with spending money on this platform. Once you go above 600whp you will need the larger 3000cc pump or two 1500cc pumps. Personally the single larger 3000cc pump probably makes the most sense.

I also do not see the need for a 3/8 line for meth. That is pretty large. Roughly 2x the size I would think you would need. You would have to step it down anyways at your flow sensor and FAV most likely unless there are some that accept a 3/8 line.

View attachment 22923

I just did all the math the other day as I was considering going direct port meth.

100% methanol, 20-25% methanol/fuel ratio or 1.5-2cc per BHP. 600whp would be say ~700 BHP so aquamist says you should be running 1050cc - 1400cc of meth.

Pump output is at 160, subtract 30PSI for your boost so you are at 130 on the chart. 0.4MM would be 140CC. 140CC x 6 = 840CC total. A bit low...I would suggest 0.5mm 180CC x 6 = 1080. You could also use 0.6MM and hit 1440CC but then you will not have enough flow for one in your CP(not essential)

Your stock pump can only flow 1500CC so you are still under. If you go with 0.5mm you can add one nozzle in the charepipe if you wish. As twisted said, it is not required. Normally for IAT cooling it is double the size of your DP jet, rule of thumb iirc, so 360CC would be the goal size the 0.8mm would probably make the most sense at 340CC. 0.9 is 380CC. or I guess you could spray 2 0.5mm in the CP for AIT cooling and hit 360CC exactly. 1080+ 380 = 1460 so that would max the pump as well and at the end of the day you would be spraying as much meth as the 0.6mm DP nozzles but potentially have worse distribution.

http://www.aquamist-direct.com/806-...igned-specially-for-direct-port-applications/
or
http://www.aquamist-direct.com/806-400-direct-port-bundle-options-this-shop-only/

If you want to keep all aquamist parts in your system. I plan on doing this mainly because of their reputation and I like more parts all from one vendor. I am sure the parts twisted offers are of similar quality etc and he also offers a full complete system with everything you need except a tank.

For a tank I vote to get a sump'd/baffled tank so you do not have pump starvation issues. This is what I use, two tanks, the baffled tank is what the pump draws from, other tank is to feed baffled tank, low fluid warning, LED indicator light, micron filter, pump, etc.

View attachment 22924

View attachment 22925

Be wary of unbaffled tanks:


Edit: the aquamist hs4 is the best designed meth injection kit for DI motors that I know of. But you do pay for it. I really like the failsafe that if there is a flow interruption etc it automatically opens the waste gates to save your engine. This is not spray n pray which is how some other less expensive kits do it. As with all port injection on top of DI make sure there are fail safes in place and you are using quality components.

All that being said pure meth dp injection seems to be the winner unless you have an easy e85 fill up. You also do not need 2 or 3 low pressure fuel pumps and everything else required to fuel 100% e85 aka overspinning the already weak HPFP. Just my thoughts.


Devil's own chart:

View attachment 32808

More PSI helps but it not needed unless you are trying to avoid running more nozzles. After 2-3 in your CP you should probably switch to DP anyways as you are flowing a good deal of meth most likely. I can't see an advantage in running smaller nozzles.

Here is any rough chart for approximately much to inject:
View attachment 32809


If anyone wants to run a fuck ton of meth this seems to be the bee knees of meth pumps: https://www.rbracing-rsr.com/waterinjection.html or https://www.miltonroy.com/applications/high-pressure-methanol-chemical-injection-applications/



I don't have a picture handy of my CP but it's pretty simple. You drill and then tap two holes directly across from each other before the TMAP. Install the aquamist bung w/ loctite. Install the appropriate nozzles. You always want to run more nozzles that are smaller vs less larger ones. You get much better atomization this way.




I agree 100%
thank you very much for your return ... my head smokes a little against lol
I'm struggling a bit with google translate to try to understand the technical terms.
your feedback is very informative and thanks to you I am convinced by aquamist.
the choice of nozzles still poses problems for me (I will finally understand)
I will re-read your message, look at the links and if I block again, I will send you a message