MMP1k logs -- Boost leak?

[langsbr]

I didn't read through the whole thread, but if you're not sure the turbos are turbo-ing, you can easily figure it out, with the caveat that you're TAKING YOUR MOTOR'S LIFE INTO YOUR OWN HANDS IF YOU ARE TOO STUPID TO GET OFF THE THROTTLE IN TIME. Basically, bypass all the boost solenoid BS and run your vac pump line straight to the turbo actuators. The actuators will be fully closed (assuming they're ok). Go, in first gear, slowly drive out (start logging when practically at idle) then stand on it until you start to build boost. You must immediately get out of the throttle, or she's going to build as much boost as is possible as fast as is possible. If they're healthy you'll be building boost in a hurry.

We've done this plenty of times to figure out if a car had odd control issues, solenoid issues, etc. Just use your head, it's a useful tip but if you are foolish you'll definitely blow your stuff up.

Chris

Looking at his logs, with WGDC after pid so high even at 4200 rpms, isn't that basically the same thing? I know this method works, but for my money, I'd rather spend the hour of time and 20 bucks for a vacuum gauge to know if the wastegates are closing accurately versus potentially popping the motor. Granted, in this instance it's unlikely, but to me still not worth the risk.

Edit - Meant to say I chuckled at the "if your turbos are turboing." I'm gonna steal that one.

 

[Chris@VargasTurboTech]

Remember WGDC is what the ECU is asking of the solenoids, not what's actually going on at the wastegate. I.e. 45% WGDC could have the wastegates fully closed if they're set tight. Could be mostly open if they're set loose. It's why I wrote an article on it. Could be lame duck if your solenoids are goofing off instead of doing their job/vac leak/etc. The only way to know for sure, quick, is to unplug vac source, measure, then connect direct to wastegates. They'll close FOR SURE eliminating all the other variables in between... leaking vac cannister, solenoids plumbed wrong (see that very often), old solenoids, corrupt tune... it won't solve the problem but it'll bypass a bunch of stuff that is it's own troubleshooting process, so you know where to look next.

 

[Panzerfaust]

I didn't read through the whole thread, but if you're not sure the turbos are turbo-ing, you can easily figure it out, with the caveat that you're TAKING YOUR MOTOR'S LIFE INTO YOUR OWN HANDS IF YOU ARE TOO STUPID TO GET OFF THE THROTTLE IN TIME. Basically, bypass all the boost solenoid BS and run your vac pump line straight to the turbo actuators. The actuators will be fully closed (assuming they're ok). Go, in first gear, slowly drive out (start logging when practically at idle) then stand on it until you start to build boost. You must immediately get out of the throttle, or she's going to build as much boost as is possible as fast as is possible. If they're healthy you'll be building boost in a hurry.

We've done this plenty of times to figure out if a car had odd control issues, solenoid issues, etc. Just use your head, it's a useful tip but if you are foolish you'll definitely blow your stuff up.

Chris

Incoming "I set the new 1/4 stock turbo record and now my engine is making funny noises" posts once this tip hits FB.
Kinda like how people wanted to know if Vinny D's popcan tab trick would really work... despite blowing an engine in the world's least realistic movies.

I'm not hitting my boost targets properly right now either, but I think I'm just gonna swap solenoids for now lol.

 

[langsbr]

Remember WGDC is what the ECU is asking of the solenoids, not what's actually going on at the wastegate. I.e. 45% WGDC could have the wastegates fully closed if they're set tight. Could be mostly open if they're set loose. It's why I wrote an article on it. Could be lame duck if your solenoids are goofing off instead of doing their job/vac leak/etc. The only way to know for sure, quick, is to unplug vac source, measure, then connect direct to wastegates. They'll close FOR SURE eliminating all the other variables in between... leaking vac cannister, solenoids plumbed wrong (see that very often), old solenoids, corrupt tune... it won't solve the problem but it'll bypass a bunch of stuff that is it's own troubleshooting process, so you know where to look next.

Right, and he's at 85% on MMP 1Ks at 3500 rpm and making 7psi. The only way to know for sure if you can potentially pop the motor is to bypass the solenoids. The only PROPER way to know if the wastegates are working correctly is to vacuum test them. They will either close for sure, or - they won't and aha - you found the problem. If I recall, I believe the OP has replaced the solenoids to no avail, and checked for boost leaks with a smoke tester. Next up is a pressure tester if the wastegates check out, but it seems unlikely since it starts to get close to target at 4500 rpms with 30% WGDC.

I'll always vote for proper testing over "unplug it and pray".

 

[langsbr]

Incoming "I set the new 1/4 stock turbo record and now my engine is making funny noises" posts once this tip hits FB.
Kinda like how people wanted to know if Vinny D's popcan tab trick would really work... despite blowing an engine in the world's least realistic movies.

I'm not hitting my boost targets properly right now either, but I think I'm just gonna swap solenoids for now lol.

LOL, my friends used to work at a VW dealer and when they would PDI turbo beetles they would put a pair of vice grips on the wastegate to keep it shut. Made the cars a lot more fun during the test drives, lol. But yeah, I know we will start seeing the "bypass wastegate solenoid mod" soon. Lots of people run no canisters with no issue, and lots of people run 1 solenoid. No solenoids must be BEST!

 

[Chris@VargasTurboTech]

It's not risky if done correctly, but I won't argue that if you're one who routinely fucks things up, this is a somewhat slightly worse than horrible idea. In general, the less talented an individual is, or the more complex the problem (which is the same thing to the less talented guy... ha!) the more you want to rely on strict/formal troubleshooting. It'll never have the efficiency of an experienced hand though. A good test guy knows when and how to use both methods.

I'd be surprised if the wastegates were bad out of the box. I wouldn't be surprised if solenoids/vac lines/etc were bad.

 

[morffius]

I don’t have big enough balls yet to bypass everything. I will get the vac tester today and do the vac testing today or tomorrow. After that will come the pressure testing. Hopefully i can rule it all out.

I have replaced the solenoids and the BSC lines I replaced 6 months to a year ago with the silicone stuff. I did them one at a time to maintain routing.

 

[Rcboosted2007]

Can you visually see if the line is connected to the front turbo wastegate. Turbo Closest to grill/radiator .

 

[morffius]

Can you visually see if the line is connected to the front turbo wastegate. Turbo Closest to grill/radiator .

Yeah it is. I was able to feel it by hand and snake my camera and take a picture of it.

Also if I drive my car and then turn it off and pull one of the vac hoses off there is still built up vacuum that releases.

 

[Rcboosted2007]

Are you using a jb4

 

[langsbr]

Are you using a jb4

Unlikely since the logs are from MHD. None of that avg_ign or FP_H crap.

 

[langsbr]

Rated it negative cause you don't know how to read a log, eh?

 

[Rcboosted2007]

Unlikely since the logs are from MHD. None of that avg_ign or FP_H crap.

Why must you always respond for others?I dont see the point to that.Im sure someday,someone,somewhere will reach out to you directly to talk. Be patient

 

[langsbr]

Thanks tinypeepeeman. Keep up the good work. There's more posts for you to mark dumb.

 

[morffius]

MHD

 

[Rcboosted2007]

I sent you some testing procedures.

 

[langsbr]

@morffius, can you get your hand on the wastegate rod at all? The rear turbo is visible and the nut looks tight on it. Granted, it could still be misadjusted, but not readily apparent. If you can feel the nut on the front turbo, if it's loose, that could be an indication as well. It'll all be much easier once you are under the car with the downpipes off though.

 

[Rcboosted2007]

Some

Rated it negative cause you don't know how to read a log, eh?

some use both, im never one to make assumptions.

 

[langsbr]

Some
some use both, im never one to make assumptions.

I get that - you can run stacked for sure. But I don't believe you can log with MHD, or none of it would be accurate, since the DME (which is what MHD logs) has no idea what the JB4 is doing, and none of the values would be correct.

 

[morffius]

I will read through it. I appreciate the link!

I sent you some testing procedures.