I was wonder about compression ratio more so than compression numbers. I guess the better question would be do the cylinder heads have the same combustion chamber CCs.
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I was wonder about compression ratio more so than compression numbers. I guess the better question would be do the cylinder heads have the same combustion chamber CCs.
I couldn't see the n53 having less compression being a naturally aspirated engine as opposed to twin turbo
I haven't actually CC'd the N53 combustion chamber, but having taken a few basic measurements it would appear to be largely similar to the N54 chamber in volume when laying them side by side. It does however, appear to be a LOT more tolerant of ignition timing than the N54 head @ a given boost and octane level based on my experience.
Filippo,
I very much doubt that the N53 combustion chamber is any larger in volume than that of the N54, and my cranking compression #s appear to back this up. I suspect the difference in ignition timing tolerance between them actually comes from the intake/exhaust ports would you believe. My theory is that a) the choke on the N54 intake port makes the charge motion hyper-turbulent which makes mixing faster once fuel is sprayed, and b) the undersized N54 exhaust ports cause localized hotspots, which reduce the detonation resistance of the combustion chamber. Again, this is just a theory and I have no hard evidence to back it up. I can however, tell you that the N54's timing requirements are an outlier for a slightly undersquare engine with an 84-86mm bore diameter compared to anything else that I can think of - whether DI or not. There has to be a reason for this, and I would suspect that reason lies in its atypical port design. I can also tell you that I now know of at least three instances where the OEM has deliberately choked or hindered flow on their boosted motor, compared to their analogous naturally-aspirated design. I'm sure there are many more examples, but these are the ones I know for a fact and have witnessed first-hand. I wish I understood why they did this, perhaps the denser/thicker charge from a boosted engine is more difficult to swirl or tumble?
N53 vs N54
LS3 vs LS9
M113 vs M113K
I very much doubt that the N53 combustion chamber is any larger in volume than that of the N54, and my cranking compression #s appear to back this up. I suspect the difference in ignition timing tolerance between them actually comes from the intake/exhaust ports would you believe. My theory is that a) the choke on the N54 intake port makes the charge motion hyper-turbulent which makes mixing faster once fuel is sprayed, and b) the undersized N54 exhaust ports cause localized hotspots, which reduce the detonation resistance of the combustion chamber. Again, this is just a theory and I have no hard evidence to back it up. I can however, tell you that the N54's timing requirements are an outlier for a slightly undersquare engine with an 84-86mm bore diameter compared to anything else that I can think of - whether DI or not. There has to be a reason for this, and I would suspect that reason lies in its atypical port design. I can also tell you that I now know of at least three instances where the OEM has deliberately choked or hindered flow on their boosted motor, compared to their analogous naturally-aspirated design. I'm sure there are many more examples, but these are the ones I know for a fact and have witnessed first-hand. I wish I understood why they did this, perhaps the denser/thicker charge from a boosted engine is more difficult to swirl or tumble?
N53 vs N54
LS3 vs LS9
M113 vs M113K
Seeing as N53s have a 12:1 compression ratio and the 54 is 10.2:1, if the volume of the heads are fairly close in size then I'd image the pistons have a crown on them. I couldn't find any good pictures but I didn't look for that long.
But It was just pure curiosity. If my engine ever decides to pop I'll definitely go n53 head, because I'm running about 26 psi now and I know I'm not making anywhere near 800 hp, 8k rpm redline would be pretty sweet too.
But It was just pure curiosity. If my engine ever decides to pop I'll definitely go n53 head, because I'm running about 26 psi now and I know I'm not making anywhere near 800 hp, 8k rpm redline would be pretty sweet too.
Yes the stock N53 pistons have quite the crown to them compared to the N54, it would appear that that's what accounts for the difference in compression between them. On a somewhat unrelated note, I calculated that the +0.3mm HG I am running accounts for a 0.2 drop in nominal compression ratio.
When I had both used N54 head and the N53B30 head on my bench, I did perform a combustion chamber volume check and the N53B30 head was about 1.2 to 1.5 ml less. The N53B30 head was resurfaced 0.004" prior to the volume check. This is why I added the thicker OEM head gasket on my setup.
Hydra Performance
We done the exact same thing with our shop car but we use e85 to raise the octane of our 98RON instead of meth to make e15 to e20 for knock control only.
The only reason we don't run meth it doesn't stop flowing during a cylinder shut down and this can cause a hyper lean and melt pistons.
This gives us more power than the car can handle and practically makes it undrivable on Michelin PS4S and somewhat drivable on street legal semi slicks.
Having so much power available on e85 is great but not practical, since going to e20 almost doubled our mpg, still runs the same 1/4 mile due to not fighting traction issues and is a much
smoother to drive.
98/93 has so much potential on our motors when done right which really hasn't been explored properly because most are just chasing big numbers.
I'm glad to finally see another shop exploring 98/93 on a built motor besides me to show e85 is not the be all end all of fuels and that great results can be achieved on 98/93.
We done the exact same thing with our shop car but we use e85 to raise the octane of our 98RON instead of meth to make e15 to e20 for knock control only.
The only reason we don't run meth it doesn't stop flowing during a cylinder shut down and this can cause a hyper lean and melt pistons.
This gives us more power than the car can handle and practically makes it undrivable on Michelin PS4S and somewhat drivable on street legal semi slicks.
Having so much power available on e85 is great but not practical, since going to e20 almost doubled our mpg, still runs the same 1/4 mile due to not fighting traction issues and is a much
smoother to drive.
98/93 has so much potential on our motors when done right which really hasn't been explored properly because most are just chasing big numbers.
I'm glad to finally see another shop exploring 98/93 on a built motor besides me to show e85 is not the be all end all of fuels and that great results can be achieved on 98/93.
I am getting ready to do the n53 head and possibly swap to hp800s from the 650s . After that dyno I am really thinking of the change lmao I am content with my 650s but jesus xmas 800 pump and meth ,move over big single.
Did you do schricks? Can't remember. I'll be curious what my N53-800 setup will do on schricks low lifts, but I'm not sure it'll ever see a Dyno.
@martymil off topic but since I have 275/35 MP4S out back.. did you follow a series of tires from full tread max summers to extreme perf to semi slick? What did you find worked and what didn't?
I have to look at the setup Omar put together for me. I am going to be tackling this after xmas cause after a yr on th 650s I am confident in his products and am completely letting him control my build. Whatever he says which i believe he recommended the low lifts for me. I assume cause I not building motor until she pops and I dont think their a big difference on the n53 head between the two
I may be wrong I just looked over and i think you need super tech springs for high lift but not for low lift so if raising rev limit to 8 then you might as well do the high lifts
Went the other way brand new Michelin sports cup 2's to brand new Michelin PS4s
Running the ps4s for street duties and cup 2's for spirited driving but only on hot bitumen.
Found the new Pirelli Trofeo R on our single turbo build amazing and that will be my next tyre of choice, they can take a 300rwk dump over a 500rpm range and not slip.
Amazing how good they are but single and twin is very different so until I try them myself I cant really comment.
I run 285's on rear and 245's on front, ps4s are 19's and cup 2's are 20's, so they are not a direct comparison.
What I found with the ps4s are great in the wet but cant hold serious power even in the dry but are very predictable, controllable and forgiving when they are on the limit of the tyre.
With the sports cup 2's they are only good when you have lots of heat in them and you can keep it there, they are useless when cold or in rain and any hint of boost and its wheel spin city.
93 is more than ample for street when the tyres are the limiting factor.
Why not turbo the n53 as a whole? If there are turbos that already bolt to it, why not use the whole engine!?
@JuniorB
Besides running higher compression, the N53 uses a hybrid aluminum/magnesium block like the N52, which wasn't designed to handle the additional loads stemming from forced induction. Its liners are thinner due to the 1mm bigger bore, the rods are lighter with 8mm rod bolts instead of 9mm, head bolts are 10/8mm instead of 11/9mm, and it runs a cast crankshaft not forged like the N54. Finally, the mounting points for the accessory drive are different as well...
Besides running higher compression, the N53 uses a hybrid aluminum/magnesium block like the N52, which wasn't designed to handle the additional loads stemming from forced induction. Its liners are thinner due to the 1mm bigger bore, the rods are lighter with 8mm rod bolts instead of 9mm, head bolts are 10/8mm instead of 11/9mm, and it runs a cast crankshaft not forged like the N54. Finally, the mounting points for the accessory drive are different as well...
On a completely unrelated note, this is what happens when you put a highly trained monkey behind the wheel of an Evo 
First off apologies for the late reply but i’ve been very busy at work lately, and i’ve been fighting a random misfire on my car..of which i will talk about when i make my own build thread, also i will post all the details/pics of my build.So guys, I know I've been away for a while, been pretty busy with the shop lately, and I finally managed to perfect my outlet design to the point where it meets my standards fitment-wise - but I digress.
A customer and friend of mine put his 6MT E92 335 on the dyno last night, and managed to put down 808whp @ 29psi, running 93oct pump gas + a single 600cc/min AEM meth nozzle. What's even more impressive is that with the exception of the head swap and hub fix (which we did for him), it was entirely a DIY self-built and self-tuned project so Bravo and hat's off to you @marc !
Now regarding his setup, he is running running HP800s, along with the full-beans Hydra-spec N53 head conversion package with Schrick high-lift cams and a Hydra-spec crank hub fix - basically a clone of my setup but with a dual-HPFP, and a triple (!) LPFP setup from Radium Engineering, along with PR coils on a STOCK bottom end with 100,000+mi on it. For the sake of completeness, he's also running relocated inlets and my mk1 silicone outlet design, along with a 7.5" RACE FMIC and a Tial BOV. Decatted DPs with a stock exhaust.
His original intent (before going with my turbos and head, etc) was to run E98 all the time, in order to be able to jack up timing and boost to silly levels, but after running my setup for a while, he actually switched back to conventional 98RON (93oct in the US) petrol from the pump for simplicity and convenience, along with a single 600cc/min AEM meth nozzle in the charge pipe. His conclusion was that the car was plenty fast, and had way more power than traction to warrant anything more as you will see from the video below of him racing a modded Z06 from a 50mph roll (running just 22-23psi on pump+meth)
Now on to the good stuff, first off here is a log of the dyno pull itself:
Along with some assorted pics:
View attachment 33462
View attachment 33463
And of course, the all-important video of the dyno run itself:
I'll let @marc take it from here, and once again great job mang!
PS - Happy Thanksgiving everyone!
As omar said i built this car entirely myself even tuned it myself as well. I only had my n53 head conversion and hub fix over @Hydra Performance to save time and effort and To be honest i really was impressed with his EDM crank hub fix and IMO i didn’t find a better/nicer way of locking my hub to the crank without removing my crank!!
Also i’d like to thank omar for this nice introduction and for the amazing support he offers with his products!!
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