400whp recipe on pump 94?

Randomizer

Lurker
Dec 16, 2020
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In Canada, don't have E85 here. Highest is 94 on pump (weird that its one higher than 93 in America? Anyways). I have a stock 335i and here is my mod list that im planning on purchasing, will this land me at 400whp?

VRSF CBE Street
VRSF Catless DP
BMS DCI
BMS CP + Tial BOV
VRSF 5" IC
BMS Stock Turbo inlets (Anyone have a suggestion for a better brand? Or the relocated ones? Not sure which ones are the best).
MHD Stage 2+ (Is it worth a custom tune at this power level?)
 

pbondar

Sergeant
May 30, 2020
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That’s a no on a MHD V10 stage 2+..depending how you define the relationship between crank and wheel horsepower…

I’d guess based on my own journey that wasn’t a million miles away that it will do around 410 crank BHP..so a bit short of 400 whp..imho

Based on my own 50k miles z4 35is with fresh coils plugs walnut clean various airbox tests , VSRF decat pipes Evo 1 FMIC..
 

Randomizer

Lurker
Dec 16, 2020
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That’s a no on a MHD V10 stage 2+..depending how you define the relationship between crank and wheel horsepower…

I’d guess based on my own journey that wasn’t a million miles away that it will do around 410 crank BHP..so a bit short of 400 whp..imho

Based on my own 50k miles z4 35is with fresh coils plugs walnut clean various airbox tests , VSRF decat pipes Evo 1 FMIC..
What would put me at 400whp then? What do the different versions of MHD tunes mean?
 

SLOWESTN54

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Feb 9, 2021
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As a fellow Canadian our 94 from chevron is like 91 from cali, it doesn't compare to 93 from the states. Canadian Shell 93 however is a lot better then the 94.

Also if you get inlets be prepared to get a custom tune.
 

Randomizer

Lurker
Dec 16, 2020
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As a fellow Canadian our 94 from chevron is like 91 from cali, it doesn't compare to 93 from the states. Canadian Shell 93 however is a lot better then the 94.

Also if you get inlets be prepared to get a custom tune.
I need a custom tune with inlets to take advantage of them? So with these mods and a custom tune what power level am I looking at on 93?
 

pbondar

Sergeant
May 30, 2020
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What would put me at 400whp then? What do the different versions of MHD tunes mean?
Well on my 35is which made a good 347 BHP on our dyno stock..v9 and v10 stage 2+ both made 399.1 BHP with a stock box n filter..the difference was the v9 torque was around 50nm lower than v10 stage 2+ was 600 vs 650 nm

Removing the airbox lid / no filter gave about 8 more BHP..

Thats all on 99 RON fuel which is the same as 94 US..

The stock turbos are just running out of puff..

Thats about as far as you can with a stock MHD tune on 99/94 fuel..

I don‘t really see the revisions to the intake plumbing making much difference..

Whether you can squeeze more out on a custom tune I’m not sure..I’ve nit see the UK guys do any better with any other tunes,,
 

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wheela

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Jun 4, 2021
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Well on my 35is which made a good 347 BHP on our dyno stock..v9 and v10 stage 2+ both made 399.1 BHP with a stock box n filter..the difference was the v9 torque was around 50nm lower than v10 stage 2+ was 600 vs 650 nm

Removing the airbox lid / no filter gave about 8 more BHP..

Thats all on 99 RON fuel which is the same as 94 US..

The stock turbos are just running out of puff..

Thats about as far as you can with a stock MHD tune on 99/94 fuel..

I don‘t really see the revisions to the intake plumbing making much difference..

Whether you can squeeze more out on a custom tune I’m not sure..I’ve nit see the UK guys do any better with any other tunes,,
Did you try the inlets on stock turbo though? It's a widely proven improvement on n54, the reduced restriction on the intake tract results in less vacuum (higher absolute pressure) at the turbo inlet near the flow limit, which means smaller pressure ratio across the compressor to get the same amount of boost = more headroom and potential output from turbos.
 

pbondar

Sergeant
May 30, 2020
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Did you try the inlets on stock turbo though? It's a widely proven improvement on n54, the reduced restriction on the intake tract results in less vacuum (higher absolute pressure) at the turbo inlet near the flow limit, which means smaller pressure ratio across the compressor to get the same amount of boost = more headroom and potential output from turbos.
No ..the MHD V series were interim steps pending the TTE500 turbos with stem to to stern uprated plumbing….

Personally I just don’t believe that uprated inlets would have made much difference…I have no proof to substantiate that save when I tuned the smaller N20 we saw a similar run out of puff…if you look at the rate that the boost delivered vs boost called for you can see that the stock turbos are just running out of puff rapidly after 5,500 ish..if someone can show me a controlled experiment on V10 with uprated inlets then I‘ll eat humble pie..my best guess is it would make 10 ponies difference…
 

wheela

Lieutenant
Jun 4, 2021
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No ..the MHD V series were interim steps pending the TTE500 turbos with stem to to stern uprated plumbing….

Personally I just don’t believe that uprated inlets would have made much difference…I have no proof to substantiate that save when I tuned the smaller N20 we saw a similar run out of puff…if you look at the rate that the boost delivered vs boost called for you can see that the stock turbos are just running out of puff rapidly after 5,500 ish..if someone can show me a controlled experiment on V10 with uprated inlets then I‘ll eat humble pie..my best guess is it would make 10 ponies difference…
I hear you, I could see either being true. I'm n55, so I have no data to contribute on this one. Maybe somebody's who's done a before/after on inlets will chime in? I believe it's a combination, but it would be interesting to see what is the more limiting factor: turbos out of breath with sufficient air supply or turbos close to out of breath but choked from inlet restriction?
 

SLOWESTN54

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Feb 9, 2021
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I hear you, I could see either being true. I'm n55, so I have no data to contribute on this one. Maybe somebody's who's done a before/after on inlets will chime in? I believe it's a combination, but it would be interesting to see what is the more limiting factor: turbos out of breath with sufficient air supply or turbos close to out of breath but choked from inlet restriction?
Wheela is right, plenty can attest to inlets allowing turbos to breath better up top. The turbos fall off later and less hard for sure .
 
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pbondar

Sergeant
May 30, 2020
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Wheela is right, plenty can attest to inlets allowing turbos to breath better up top. The turbos fall off later and less hard for sure .
Every system has a constraint somewhere and certainly the VSRF inlets look like drain pipes compared to the stock 35i versions..I await the dyno runs 👌
 
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wheela

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Jun 4, 2021
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the issue with inlets on a ots tune is, at least in my case caused overboosting and throttle closures.
I think this is a good illustration of the reduction in restriction from the inlets. If the stock inlets weren't having a limiting affect on the turbos, then putting bigger inlets on shouldn't have caused over-boosting and creating throttle closures by not adjusting the tune. It's not a quantifiable increase in power, but it would be hard to argue that the over-boosting with larger inlets (and same tune) isn't evidence that the turbos are making more boost on the same turbine power.

But then again, I'd never have thought you'd ever make the gains you did with the Mr 5 intake, and I was already a fan of the Mr. 5 intake!!

Good discussion, I hope somebody can share some hard data!
 

Randomizer

Lurker
Dec 16, 2020
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As a fellow Canadian our 94 from chevron is like 91 from cali, it doesn't compare to 93 from the states. Canadian Shell 93 however is a lot better then the 94.

Also if you get inlets be prepared to get a custom tune.
What should I do to get over 400whp then?
 

Sava666

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Dec 14, 2020
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What should I do to get over 400whp then?
Just do the maintenance before you dive into the tuning. Otherwise you will be chasing your tail. Pressurize your intake, buy some new boost solenoids, clean the intake. New spark plugs/coils. FMIC - go with 7, don't waste your time on 5. You can save money on BMS DCI and spend it on 7 ARM FMIC (cheap but works well along the gears). BMS stock turbo inlets - all made in China so no big deal. Don't buy outlets. Buy some grippy tires )