2019 upgraded twins choice for 650whp

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What turbos would you choose for the most reliable and best power?


  • Total voters
    52

Torgus

Captain
Nov 6, 2016
1,371
Boston
Wasn't RB was all TD04 before VTT even came to the platform right? PURE was TD04 always as well? Both were out before the Chinesum ZAGE turbos that VTT rebranded even hit the market.

The VTT stock frame upgrade were with TD03 internals and the larger TD04 wheels this was why they were cheaper than RB & Pure but had higher failure rates as the internals were not up to carrying the larger TD04 wheels. Less machining and being able to use the native TD03 shaft/internals was for higher profits margins and more market share.

At least this is what I remember this is like circa 2015 basically 4-5 years ago. I never was too keen on upgraded twins so I may have my facts wrong. I am sure Chris will point it out. Not that who came out with TD04s 1st matters at all for this thread mind you.
 
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Blaster3500

Corporal
Nov 5, 2016
206
SC
Wasn't RB was all TD04 before VTT even came to the platform right? PURE was TD04 always as well? Both were out before the Chinesum ZAGE turbos that VTT rebranded even hit the market.

The VTT stock frame upgrade were with TD03 internals and the larger TD04 wheels this was why they were cheaper than RB & Pure but had higher failure rates as the internals were not up to carrying the larger TD04 wheels. Less machining and being able to use the native TD03 shaft/internals was for higher profits margins and more market share.

At least this is what I remember this is like circa 2016 4 years ago. I never was too keen on upgraded twins so I may have my facts wrong. I am sure Chris will point it out. Not that who came out with TD04s 1st matters at all for this thread mind you.
Correct the original RB classics were TD04 CHRA's (2011-2012ish I believe) but were obviously TD03 housings. Pure is and has been TD03. It depends on what you want to call a TD04 setup. The CHRA or housings as well. Hydra's, GF's, and 1ks are the only twins I would consider a true TD04 setup. They all have TD04 CHRA's, TD04 comp covers and a larger exhaust housing. GCs have a TD04 cartridge interface but the housings do not have much of an increase in A/R over the TD03 stuff.
 
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Rob09msport

Major
Oct 28, 2017
1,808
Monroe CT
And I'm sorry when I say true td04 I don't mean just shoehorning. That's what torgus was kinda saying but maybe i should have said native td04 or as designed so no marketing bs can apply
 

langsbr

Lieutenant
Apr 5, 2017
990
I have MMP S3s, and they've been working (knocking on wood). That being said - I would LOVE to sell them and get a set of the RB GFs. I think Rob is a major dick when it comes to his advertising methods, but I really liked the design of them, and at least with the one customer result posted so far, the results are pretty dang impressive to say the least.

I wouldn't recommend the MMP 1Ks at all - I have yet to see a single dyno or log that shows decent spool, and that's not even why I wouldn't recommend them - that all boils down to MMP's horrible customer service and slimy ways. I am completely disappointed in Mauricio. He turned out to be such a slimeball.

If you're considering a single, I'd look at the Speedtech bottom mount. You get a nice cast manifold, and still a bit of stealth since its down low, and a very attractive price point.
 

JuniorB

Sergeant
May 9, 2017
313
Rhode Island
Speaking of MMP, all the used mmp turbos with 700 miles, all seem to have been rebuilt for resale. Coasting thru FB seem to have quite a few of them, all rebuilt with a few hundred miles
 
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Coupes66

Private
Dec 26, 2017
49
I have Super RB Evos which have done 8,000 kms with no issues. My last dyno reading was 22 mths ago on a DynoDynamic Dyno at 553hp. Car has achieved 10.77s down the dragstrip. Currently, they seem to perform very well.
 
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Rob09msport

Major
Oct 28, 2017
1,808
Monroe CT
I have Super RB Evos which have done 8,000 kms with no issues. My last dyno reading was 22 mths ago on a DynoDynamic Dyno at 553hp. Car has achieved 10.77s down the dragstrip. Currently, they seem to perform very well.
Are you rwd? And what is your tire and suspension setup? Asking cause not many have good results on hybrids so I try take note if winning combos
 

Rob09msport

Major
Oct 28, 2017
1,808
Monroe CT
I have MMP S3s, and they've been working (knocking on wood). That being said - I would LOVE to sell them and get a set of the RB GFs. I think Rob is a major dick when it comes to his advertising methods, but I really liked the design of them, and at least with the one customer result posted so far, the results are pretty dang impressive to say the least.

I wouldn't recommend the MMP 1Ks at all - I have yet to see a single dyno or log that shows decent spool, and that's not even why I wouldn't recommend them - that all boils down to MMP's horrible customer service and slimy ways. I am completely disappointed in Mauricio. He turned out to be such a slimeball.

If you're considering a single, I'd look at the Speedtech bottom mount. You get a nice cast manifold, and still a bit of stealth since its down low, and a very attractive price point.
I like the fact that you run them and dont cheerlead not many keep it 100
 

fmorelli

Brigadier General
Staff member
Aug 11, 2017
2,506
Virginia
@Rob09msport glad you've got experience with the Hydra's - it's going as I expected. I was hoping to have mine in much sooner, but we're still ... not ... ready ... so I have no news to report on my Hydra's. Just high hopes as I think the design/approach is right for my needs.

@Bmxr152 as a BMW tech, you have well more knowledge and variability that a lot of folks. Maybe I'd ask, have you considered the single option, like Speedtech or CES? I believe there are good twins on the market, but at this juncture price point (no longer $5-7k) has gotten to where it is short term cost competitive and arguably longer term cost advantageous.

Filippo
 

langsbr

Lieutenant
Apr 5, 2017
990
I like the fact that you run them and dont cheerlead not many keep it 100
I used to be pleased with Mauricio. I liked when his turbos first came out the logical engineering approach he came to the platform with. He developed his theory on what he expected the turbos to do, tested his hypothesis, and then examined where the hypothesis didn't match with testing and modified it until they matched.

He was among the first to agree that TFT Inlets were useful - EVERYONE said there was no benefit to them and now they accepted as table stakes for a proper FBO setup.

Where he went wrong is buy screwing over numerous people when they did have issues. Yes, I know a number of people did get their turbos replaced, and that's fine, things don't always last forever, especially pushed beyond their design spec. But I know first hand of an example that had SOOO many things that were not proper - denial of receipt of the failed turbos, 'repair' with used, broken parts, threats of non-repair unless an NDA is signed which claims 5,000 penalty for discussing it, it's just maddening. This is for a set of turbos that were NEVER pushed beyond 20 psi on pump gas and yet BLEW APART - yeah - hole in the turbine manifold, no possible repair type blew apart.

My 'warranty' is expired now (was it ever worth anything?) so if anything happens to mine, I'll gladly post publicly on it. When I first got the turbos, I was pleased with Mauricio's customer service, but the issues in hindsight show he either didn't care enough to QA things, or had incompetent help. From things like shipping me stock side inlets instead of relocated ones (He took care of it but tried to get me to pay shipping them back - uh, no.), to the compressor housing on one turbo not being in the correct position and not allowing the feed line bolt to install, to one of the wastegate rod nuts not being tightened. Mauricio saw the nut loose in a picture I posted and contacted me immediately with how to test and correct, but that should have never happen and of course he blamed it on loosening during "shipping" yeah sure.
 
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Rob09msport

Major
Oct 28, 2017
1,808
Monroe CT
@Rob09msport glad you've got experience with the Hydra's - it's going as I expected. I was hoping to have mine in much sooner, but we're still ... not ... ready ... so I have no news to report on my Hydra's. Just high hopes as I think the design/approach is right for my needs.

@Bmxr152 as a BMW tech, you have well more knowledge and variability that a lot of folks. Maybe I'd ask, have you considered the single option, like Speedtech or CES? I believe there are good twins on the market, but at this juncture price point (no longer $5-7k) has gotten to where it is short term cost competitive and arguably longer term cost advantageous.

Filippo
I felt better when I saw you took three hydra plunge with me and I have zero regrets even with the outlet ordeal. I would go gf if I hadn't gone hydra, one thing I must say is I think other turbos that flow less are rated way higher. Hydra gave lb min specs but I bet they are higher than alot of other turbos on market. I think people just push the turbos hard cause this turned into a very narrow upgrade path platform. Just boost not alot of heads ,cams ,etc. Anyway at first I wondered about the 800s but I make 24 lb with more left in turbos and on 93. Now with meth I could turn up little but don't think I should cause I believe I would start falling off efficiency island.
 

ShocknAwe

Lieutenant
Jan 24, 2018
810
SC
I felt better when I saw you took three hydra plunge with me and I have zero regrets even with the outlet ordeal. I would go gf if I hadn't gone hydra, one thing I must say is I think other turbos that flow less are rated way higher. Hydra gave lb min specs but I bet they are higher than alot of other turbos on market. I think people just push the turbos hard cause this turned into a very narrow upgrade path platform. Just boost not alot of heads ,cams ,etc. Anyway at first I wondered about the 800s but I make 24 lb with more left in turbos and on 93. Now with meth I could turn up little but don't think I should cause I believe I would start falling off efficiency island.
My N53 spec HP800s are built, should have them stateside shortly once a couple other parts are ready and boxed up. Can't wait to make good power on 93 without boost cranked to the moon.

Did Omar tune your 650s?
 
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Rob09msport

Major
Oct 28, 2017
1,808
Monroe CT
My N53 spec HP800s are built, should have them stateside shortly once a couple other parts are ready and boxed up. Can't wait to make good power on 93 without boost cranked to the moon.

Did Omar tune your 650s?
I got a tune from Him but currently have v8bait making a flex fuel meth tune. Omar was great only reason I have justin Is he has tuned my car for yrs and the using ff for meth map switching hasn't really been done. Only other person Is twisted tuning.
 
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Torgus

Captain
Nov 6, 2016
1,371
Boston
I felt better when I saw you took three hydra plunge with me and I have zero regrets even with the outlet ordeal. I would go gf if I hadn't gone hydra, one thing I must say is I think other turbos that flow less are rated way higher. Hydra gave lb min specs but I bet they are higher than alot of other turbos on market. I think people just push the turbos hard cause this turned into a very narrow upgrade path platform. Just boost not alot of heads ,cams ,etc. Anyway at first I wondered about the 800s but I make 24 lb with more left in turbos and on 93. Now with meth I could turn up little but don't think I should cause I believe I would start falling off efficiency island.
I still want to know how hydra got those lb/min ratings. @Hydra Performance

His turbos do look nice I hope they perform well.
 

langsbr

Lieutenant
Apr 5, 2017
990
still want to know how hydra got those lb/min ratings. @Hydra Performance
I'd expect it would have to be similar to the way MMP does/did - a combination of the amount of HP they have done, along with expectations based on wheel.

I think MMP rated the S3s at 35lb/min because people had made 700whp with them. He then extrapolated that with the larger manifolds and reduced backpressure they 'should' do another 150 whp for 850 whp per pair, so 42ish lb/min. I think i have what he said the backpressure is on the 1Ks, I'll see if I can find it.

EDIT:
The MMP 1Ks have 50psi of backpressure at 32psi at redline.

The GCs are 'claimed' to have 51psi of backpressure at 29psi at redline.

Wish I could find it for MMPs with the stock manifolds.
 
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