Who has this Crank Seal Protection Plate?

F87Source

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Oct 14, 2019
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Also I wanted to add:

In the application on the bed plate a high torque isn't needed, so you can use a grade 12.9 bolt torqued lightly like previously suggested. But why would you choose that over a stainless bolt that is less susceptible to hydrogen embrittlement and corrosion? There is zero benefit in this application for a grade 12.9 bolt, and if anything stainless is superior in this use case as high strength is not needed.
 
Oct 24, 2016
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Ultimately, shy of pass fail criteria engineers answer to the business case. In an engineering bubble, you may have a case (I am mechanical/aero/project/acoustic/fluid) if you're in the mood to sip wine and pontificate. In the real world there are about 8 more sets of criteria that dictate if something is a good choice. Availability, cost, quantity, durability, etc. etc. As my engineering career (outside of VTT) has progressed, this has been probably the biggest area for growth for me personally -seeing that perfect is the enemy of good, and the goal of a business is different than the goal of a perfectionist. This wasn't learned at VTT, it was learned while working for a multi billion dollar aerospace company on turbine engines and in my own businesses. It's best when things line up of course, but shy of your concern about appearance, I believe you would be hard pressed to come up with a real drawback that holds water for using the grade bolts we do. Yes, we did that work. Yes it's been proven. It does take all types, and if you're the sort that's wired like I can be (depends on the subject matter) then the path of least resistance is to simply purchase the fasteners of the type, grade, material and size of your preference. I think it's silly, but I also acknowledge that I regularly do things in other aspects of my life that -for sure- would be considered silly (at best) by the majority of the population, so truly it's all good. Nevertheless we do stand behind that material choice as a clear winner over stainless. If you prefer stainless, suggest local, fastener warehouse, or bolt depot for good places to choose fasteners to your hearts' content.
 

F87Source

Sergeant
Oct 14, 2019
283
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Canada
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2017 Bmw M2
Ultimately, shy of pass fail criteria engineers answer to the business case. In an engineering bubble, you may have a case (I am mechanical/aero/project/acoustic/fluid) if you're in the mood to sip wine and pontificate. In the real world there are about 8 more sets of criteria that dictate if something is a good choice. Availability, cost, quantity, durability, etc. etc. As my engineering career (outside of VTT) has progressed, this has been probably the biggest area for growth for me personally -seeing that perfect is the enemy of good, and the goal of a business is different than the goal of a perfectionist. This wasn't learned at VTT, it was learned while working for a multi billion dollar aerospace company on turbine engines and in my own businesses. It's best when things line up of course, but shy of your concern about appearance, I believe you would be hard pressed to come up with a real drawback that holds water for using the grade bolts we do. Yes, we did that work. Yes it's been proven. It does take all types, and if you're the sort that's wired like I can be (depends on the subject matter) then the path of least resistance is to simply purchase the fasteners of the type, grade, material and size of your preference. I think it's silly, but I also acknowledge that I regularly do things in other aspects of my life that -for sure- would be considered silly (at best) by the majority of the population, so truly it's all good. Nevertheless we do stand behind that material choice as a clear winner over stainless. If you prefer stainless, suggest local, fastener warehouse, or bolt depot for good places to choose fasteners to your hearts' content.
Don't forget this wasn't a debate on material quality or bolt choice, this was based on torque values prescribed.

But yes I never doubted that grade 12.9 fasteners were stronger. If you want to use grade 12.9 sure go ahead, but is it needed in this application? No, the torque requirements for one is so low a super high strength bolt is not needed. Next the aluminum bed plate threads would fail long before the bolt did. So honestly in this application since the demands permits more flexibility for type of fastener (and like you said if you're crazy ocd) I would personally prefer stainless, so I don't have to see rust (which drives me bonkers, and it's super common here because of the salt they use in the winter).

Where grade 12.9 bolts are useful is on a CBC where wouldn't want the bolts to fail under any circumstances.


That's all I really have to say. Never had any "beef" with VTT, just wanted to make sure people buying your plate don't strip their bed plate threads... I know how much that sucks when something like that occurs and wouldn't wish it upon anyone...
 
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NoGuru

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Exactly the end user, so maybe instead of being upset try to understand the feedback and improve. You don't loose anything but you have the potential to gain more trust from the customer when they know you are paying attention to every detail like torque specs, and aren't assigning arbitrary numbers.
This is great advice and what I was thinking as well. Your post was very informative and I learned something from it.
 
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beetle6986

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Nov 14, 2019
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Ultimately, shy of pass fail criteria engineers answer to the business case. In an engineering bubble, you may have a case (I am mechanical/aero/project/acoustic/fluid) if you're in the mood to sip wine and pontificate. In the real world there are about 8 more sets of criteria that dictate if something is a good choice. Availability, cost, quantity, durability, etc. etc. As my engineering career (outside of VTT) has progressed, this has been probably the biggest area for growth for me personally -seeing that perfect is the enemy of good, and the goal of a business is different than the goal of a perfectionist. This wasn't learned at VTT, it was learned while working for a multi billion dollar aerospace company on turbine engines and in my own businesses. It's best when things line up of course, but shy of your concern about appearance, I believe you would be hard pressed to come up with a real drawback that holds water for using the grade bolts we do. Yes, we did that work. Yes it's been proven. It does take all types, and if you're the sort that's wired like I can be (depends on the subject matter) then the path of least resistance is to simply purchase the fasteners of the type, grade, material and size of your preference. I think it's silly, but I also acknowledge that I regularly do things in other aspects of my life that -for sure- would be considered silly (at best) by the majority of the population, so truly it's all good. Nevertheless we do stand behind that material choice as a clear winner over stainless. If you prefer stainless, suggest local, fastener warehouse, or bolt depot for good places to choose fasteners to your hearts' content.
I installed mine yesterday. Only issue was I misplaced my long allen key socket so I couldn’t use a torque wrench as a short allen key socket wouldn’t fit. I made it pretty tight with a long hand held allen. You think that will be ok or should I take the pulley off and torque it? The fit and finish of the part was perfect.
 
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Oct 24, 2016
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"Pretty tight" can mean very different things to different people, might be perfect, might not be, we always recommend using the right tools for the job, if a torque is specified normally that would mean a torque wrench should be used. Spit balling here if you are new to mechanical things I'd retorque it. If you've been a mechanic for 20 years I'd bet a ham sandwich it's ok.
 

beetle6986

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Nov 14, 2019
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"Pretty tight" can mean very different things to different people, might be perfect, might not be, we always recommend using the right tools for the job, if a torque is specified normally that would mean a torque wrench should be used. Spit balling here if you are new to mechanical things I'd retorque it. If you've been a mechanic for 20 years I'd bet a ham sandwich it's ok.
Not a mechanic, but I wrench on cars just about every weekend for many years. Any tighter and I think the allen key would have broke. My luck the one I needed was missing from the toolbox and the parts store was closed. Lol
I’ll get the new socket and check it just to be sure. It’s only about a 30 minute job.