E89 Urgent recommendation to replace the pink hardtop hydraulic relays

fmorelli

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Thanks to @RobbiZ4 for all his work on the E89 hydraulic top system. I suspect this may also apply, in some way to the E90 hydraulics? @RobbiZ4? I am reposting this information from E89 Post, and ultimately one wants to go look at the German Zroadster forum, where the work is laid out in further detail.

From RobbiZ4 at https://e89.zpost.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1522435

Hi guys,

In the German zroadster.com forum we currently had several cars with damaged hydraulic pumps. Today I got one damaged pump as well as the 2 pink relais from one of the forum members for further analysis.

All the following links will direct into my German threads. I'm pretty sure you will be able to understand the basics, the pictures as well as my conclusions. -
happyanim.gif

If not, you can open those links with Google translate and you will get a nearly perfect translation.
wink.gif


Weeks ago I already made an analysis of the electrical environment of the hydraulic pump and relais. My retractable hardtop diagnostic tool was re-used to plot another EKG diagram of the hydraulic activities of the roof:

attachment.jpg


The following link is not required to read! It will lead you to the backgrund story and the "why" did we discuss and analyze this topic.
http://www.zroadster.com/forum/index...raulik.133304/

By trying to understand the electrical support of the hydraulic pump I've identified a massive weakness of this construction:

The pump is directly connected to the plus and minus terminals of the battery. There is only a 50A fuse in the line as well as those 2 pink relais. No additional switch to remove the battery power from the pump. The 2 relais are conducted by the Cabrio Top Module (CTM) the way, that always 1 relais has to be activated and the other has to be deactivated and vice versa. If both relais are deactivated (without any currency), the pump is switched off. So far so good, that's the intended function.

With every opening and closing cycle the contacts of the 2 relais will abraded a little bit (hope this is the correct word in English) due to the high amouunt of currency to be switched (up to 50 ampere).

Depending on the age and the number of roof opening cycles, the 2 relais will fail after some years.
  • Failing in this special situation means NOT, the roof doesn't work anymore (this was our assumption up to now).
  • Failing of one of these 2 relais means, the contact will stay closed even if the relais power supply has been removed.
If one of the contacts doesn't open anymore, the pump will continue to run until it dies due to overheating. Remember my former words: there is no additional switch between the pump and the battery. This is a really crazy construction in our cars.

The pump will continue to run even if you lock your car and leave it. It might be stopped by an empty battery. But our current experience is, it will run until all wires will be melted! Just have a look on the linked diagnostic of the burned pump.

The most worse thing is, that BMW has arised the price of this pump from 600€ up to 2.700 € in this year! In total you will have to pay much more than 3.000€ to get it repaired by your dealer., caused by a simple cheap relais for only 15€, that was used beyond it's lifecycle.

Based on these analysis results we placed a recommendation in the German forum to replace both relais every 2 years to avoid a burning hydraulic pump.

Feel free to think about it as well.
party0030.gif


Hydraulic damage analysis part 1 (Relais ~ 15€)
http://www.zroadster.com/forum/index...2#post-2763037

attachment.jpg


Hydraulic damage analysis part 2 (Hydraulic pump ~ 2.700€)
http://www.zroadster.com/forum/index...2#post-2763122

attachment.jpg



My recommendation in the German forum:
http://www.zroadster.com/forum/index...-jahre.133521/


Source of damage:
attachment.jpg


Result:
attachment.jpg

Attached Images
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attachment.jpg
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fmorelli

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This is a seminal piece of work. I could not get the links above to work. At least the analysis ones. I have an account as well, which I suggest others do. In the meantime, this link got me to your content:

http://www.zroadster.com/forum/index...-jahre.133521/

As I understand it, there are two identical relays you recommend bi-annual changing BMW P/N 12631742690 (https://www.realoem.com/bmw/enUS/sho...02#12631742690)

On the replacement, @RobbiZ4 has photos of the two relays on the pump. This page seems to get to the meet of things, for those that want to jump quickly:
http://www.zroadster.com/forum/inde...agen-dachhydraulik.133304/page-2#post-2763037

Two other things to consider from all the posts:
  • Use a Sharpie to make the installation month/year on your relays
  • The link covers a 3-wire piezo buzzer installation that lets one hear if the pump is in continuous mode. I've not figured out a corresponding USA available buzzer - the one listed is only available in the German and maybe broader European market.
Filippo
 
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fmorelli

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@RobbiZ4 one question, after reading your posts on Zroadster, I'm unable to find the buzzer like you have in Germany. In fact I'm struggling to find any 3-wire buzzer in the USA :(. Is there any circumstance where the pump should be on continuous? And if that buzzer is making noise, what should one do?

Filippo
'
 
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fmorelli

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Talking with Alex Heim, thanks for this video - for those of us that are not German speakers, nonetheless we can imagine :) ... but this shows anyone how easy this is ...

Filippo

 
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RobbiZ4

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Part number of the salmon relays:
12631742690
2 times the same part, to be replaced pairwise.


@RobbiZ4 one question, after reading your posts on Zroadster, I'm unable to find the buzzer like you have in Germany. In fact I'm struggling to find any 3-wire buzzer in the USA :(. Is there any circumstance where the pump should be on continuous? And if that buzzer is making noise, what should one do?

Filippo
'
In the german forum there is a link to AMAZON for this buzzer. Search in Google with the detailled name of it, should be an asian product.

https://www.amazon.de/Bejing-Machinery-BLE2-Akkustischer-Mini-Blinksummer-Schwarz/dp/B00378OE18

Already in the above summery you will find the explanation for this run-to-die continous mode of the pump.

@fmorelli
Please update the incorrect links as I've updated it already in the initial post on zpost.
 
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fmorelli

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In the german forum there is a link to AMAZON for this buzzer. Search in Google with the detailled name of it, should be an asian product.
https://www.amazon.de/Bejing-Machinery-BLE2-Akkustischer-Mini-Blinksummer-Schwarz/dp/B00378OE18
Already in the above summery you will find the explanation for this run-to-die continous mode of the pump.
Unfortunately I've been unable to find it. USA Amazon doesn't sell it. German Amazon, no one ships to USA that lists that item. Could not find it on Aliexpress (China) or eBay. I even went looking for general 3-wire piezo buzzers but didn't have much luck. If any other enterprising electronics guys (@NoQuarter ?) know where to get this in the USA, please post ...

@fmorelli
Please update the incorrect links as I've updated it already in the initial post on zpost.
Done. Thanks again!

Filippo
 
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matreyia

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Talking with Alex Heim, thanks for this video - for those of us that are not German speakers, nonetheless we can imagine :) ... but this shows anyone how easy this is ...

Filippo

I speak German... not for BMW repairs initially but now it's useful. I never could justify studying it to anyone but now I can.

Although...technical german related to industry specific subjects can end up just as foreign to a German speaker in many cases.
 
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NoQuarter

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How about adding additional relays that are activated by the ignition being on?

A bit trickier if you want to be able to use the remote to open / close but seems reasonable.
 
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RobbiZ4

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How about adding additional relays that are activated by the ignition being on?
A bit trickier if you want to be able to use the remote to open / close but seems reasonable.
Well, that will block the nice feature to remotely open and close the roof without an activated ignition. Might be an option, but not so easy to implement as just replacing both relais every 2 years. :)
 

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RobbiZ4

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E89 Z4 (2009-2016) hydraulic wiring with the 2 relays:
https://www.newtis.info/tisv2/a/en/...s/retractable-hardtop2/hardtop-drive/2dQ7KmiE
E89_Ausgänge%20Versenkbares%20Hardtop_2dQ7KmiE.jpg


Thanks to @RobbiZ4 for all his work on the E89 hydraulic top system. I suspect this may also apply, in some way to the E93 hydraulics? @RobbiZ4? [...]


E85 Z4 (2003-2008) hydraulic wiring with the 2 relays:
https://www.newtis.info/tisv2/a/en/...ions/soft-top-control/soft-top-drives/q8p1NJU

upload_2018-8-9_10-10-30.png

How this E85 roof works:
https://www.newtis.info/tisv2/a/en/...ions/soft-top-control/soft-top-drives/XLINj66



E52 Z8 hydraulic wiring with the 2 relays:
https://www.newtis.info/tisv2/a/EN/...ol/hydraulic-functions/hydraulic-unit/lAxUsg9
upload_2018-8-9_14-20-3.png


How this E52 roof works:
https://www.newtis.info/tisv2/a/EN/...ol/hydraulic-functions/hydraulic-unit/XdVaL2X




Today I had a look at the electric circuits of the
BMW E93 (3-series 2007...) convertible:
https://www.newtis.info/tisv2/a/en/...ons/retractable-hardtop/hardtop-drive/llH3RTm

Interesting: the drawing error regarding the relay contacts of the left relay has been corrected.

It is exactly the same as in our Z4 models.

_E93_Ausgänge Versenkbares Hardtop - Relais.jpg



Let's continue with the 4-series convertible F33 ... :D


Yeah, got it:
https://www.newtis.info/tisv2/a/en/...etractable-hardtop/hard-top-engine/1VnXCxfvoY

_F33_Schaltplan_Antriebe.jpg




Let's continue:

1-series E88 convertible

https://www.newtis.info/tisv2/a/en/...utomatic-soft-top/soft-top-powertrain/uQam1dj

upload_2018-8-7_14-27-49.png



2-series F23 convertible
https://www.newtis.info/tisv2/a/en/...ams/03-body/convertible-top-module/1VnYWO6Pav
upload_2018-8-7_14-30-35.png

Detailled description: https://www.newtis.info/tisv2/a/en/f23-230i-cab/1VnZElm1or
This wiring diagramm looks a bit different to the former ones, but at least it contains the same weak construction: only these 2 relays between the battery and the pump.

Funny video:
https://www.newtis.info/tisv2/a/en/f23-230i-cab/1VnYFIisQH

Description: https://www.newtis.info/tisv2/a/en/f23-230i-cab/1VnZElm1or

6-series E64 convertible
https://www.newtis.info/tisv2/a/en/...tions/soft-top-control/soft-top-drive/s6X5pqI

upload_2018-8-7_14-36-47.png



6-series F12 convertible
https://www.newtis.info/tisv2/a/en/...ecurity-functions/automatic-soft-top/F7WLO1CP

upload_2018-8-7_14-41-46.png


This wiring diagramm of the F12 is a little bit different, as the relays seem to be integrated in the modul A127 "soft top drive".
Even on the zoomed picture I can't identify the relays, but they may exist in this unit as well.
https://www.newtis.info/tisv2/a/en/f12-640i-cab/FEm4pRvQ

FEkYgYpI.png




And what about the Mini's (R57)?
https://www.newtis.info/tisv2/a/en/...utomatic-soft-top/soft-top-powertrain/hgCjPMz

upload_2018-8-8_7-51-44.png


It is exactly the same electrical design flaw as in our Z4 models.



Mini (F57)

https://www.newtis.info/tisv2/a/en/...unctions/automatic-soft-top/drives/1VnYasrOTY

upload_2018-8-8_7-42-15.png


This roof works completely different. Each of the above motors is running under the control of the Convertible Top Modul and works completely without those dump relays.
Nothing to think about further... :sweatsmile:


Last but not least, the new i8 roadster (i15)
https://www.newtis.info/tisv2/a/en/...-with-a/a41-convertible-top-module/1VncYc40YE

upload_2018-8-7_15-4-57.png


Same as with the new Mini. Each of the above motors is running under the control of the 2 Convertible Top Moduls and works completely without the pink relays.

Everything is fine in the new Mini F57 as well as in the i8.


Without any further analysis, I'm pretty sure that all the above named convertibles will run into the same expensive trap. Whoever knows an owner of these cars, please give him a hint to think about a relay change as well.


Summary of the fault-by-design:

"The pump is directly connected to the plus and minus terminals of the battery. There is only a 50A fuse in the line as well as those 2 pink relays. No additional switch to remove the battery power from the pump. The 2 relays are conducted by the Cabrio Top Module (CTM) the way, that always 1 relays has to be activated and the other has to be deactivated and vice versa. If both relays are deactivated (without any currency), the pump is switched off. So far so good, that's the intended function.

With every opening and closing cycle the contacts of the 2 relays will be abraded a little bit (hope this is the correct word in English) due to the high amount of currency to be switched (up to 50 ampere).

Depending on the age and the number of roof opening cycles, the 2 relays will fail after some years.
  • Failing in this special situation means NOT, the roof doesn't work anymore (this was our assumption up to now).
  • Failing of one of these 2 relays means, a contact will stay closed even if the relay power supply has been removed.
If one of the contacts doesn't open anymore, the pump will continue to run until it dies due to overheating."
 
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