Upgrading Z4 E89s with the 677 Hi-Fi/DSP option or HK or Logic 7 system

pbondar

Corporal
May 30, 2020
131
49
0
E89s were fitted with 3 different audio systems.

The basic stereo system driving 4 mid range speakers and 2 woofers

The 676 Hi-Fi system with a separate amp connected via conventional analog copper cables to the head unit, driving 11 speakers through a 7 channel amp with 5 mid range speakers , 2 tweeters, 2 woofers and 2 sub woofers

The 677 Top-Fi/DSP system with a separate amp connected via a digitally encoded optical link driving 14 speakers through 8 channels, with 6 mid range speakers, 4 tweeters, 2 woofers and 2 sub woofers.
file.gif



I previously updated my 20i MSport that had the 676 system using the Audiotec Fischer Match 7 amp/DSP with Eton mid range / tweeters, Audison sub woofers driven by an Alpine Class D amp and 2 Rockford Fosgate woofers.

When I bought my 35is it was pretty ‘fully loaded’ with the 677 Top-Fi system amongst many expensive add ons.

Like many things on the 35is it might have been great in its day but the audio system when fed with the same high quality digital feeds was very disappointing compared to the outgoing Match 7 system I had lovingly created in the 20i MSport.

https://www.audiotec-fischer.de/en/matc ... rs/up-7bmw

As a temporary measure I swapped the mid range units out for the Eton BMW OE upgrades. This brought an immediate improvement.

Next was my plan to move the Match 7 system from my 20i to the 35is.

Unfortunately it turns out that it’s effectively a no no on several counts,

The wiring harness is completely different as are the connectors.

The biggest issue is the the 677 head unit outputs it’s audio feed to the main amp via a fibre optic link called MOST.

This link uses a proprietary protocol rendering it uncommunicative with ‘normal’ systems.

End of a great idea…

Then I noticed that Audiotec Fischer has in the intervening time has created a box (Helix) that inputs the MOST link and outputs a TOSLINK which is an industry standard interface often found in higher end audio domestic audio systems.

https://www.audiotec-fischer.de/en/heli ... ies/sdmi25

So it looked like I could use this box of tricks as a bridge.

However the cone and harness were going to require major butchering.

So in the end I rolled over and bought another new product from these guys, the Match 10 DSP which is effectively a bigger brother to the Match 7 with 10 physical channels plus 1 output fir driving another amp versus 7 physical channels plus q output for another amp.

https://www.audiotec-fischer.de/en/matc ... s/up-10dsp

There were a myriad of other upgrades and features in the DSP domain…if you are interested best to read the blurb, if your definition of good audio is nice clear sound coming from a few speakers then it’s probably not for you.

It’s going to take probably a week for me to fit the new system, fortunately I’ve found a barn nearby which after Christmas I can use to swap out the rest of the system from the 20i and revert it largely to original spec and then take the subwoofers across to the 35is and then sell the Match 7 whilst fitting all the existing and fresh parts to the 35is.
 

Attachments

  • 2021-11-20 14.04.18.jpg
    2021-11-20 14.04.18.jpg
    281.6 KB · Views: 15
  • 2021-11-20 14.04.38.jpg
    2021-11-20 14.04.38.jpg
    278.7 KB · Views: 6
  • 2021-11-20 14.06.17.jpg
    2021-11-20 14.06.17.jpg
    312.6 KB · Views: 8
  • 2021-11-20 14.08.01.jpg
    2021-11-20 14.08.01.jpg
    333.5 KB · Views: 7
  • 2021-11-20 14.08.08.jpg
    2021-11-20 14.08.08.jpg
    393.4 KB · Views: 7

pbondar

Corporal
May 30, 2020
131
49
0
Folks often ask if the speaker specs change from each audio system..

Here for reference is a 676 mid range speaker, a 677 mid range speaker and an Eton B100Xn mid range with co-axial tweeter as comparisons..if size of magnet was an issue then the Eton wins..

file.jpg
 

pbondar

Corporal
May 30, 2020
131
49
0
Glad to see fellow audio enthusiast posting their build! Looking forward to seeing it progress👍
Thanks more to come..I love spending money digging myself out of holes I should never have dug!-:)
 
Last edited:
  • Funny
Reactions: wheela

pbondar

Corporal
May 30, 2020
131
49
0
Slowly working my way through the Pandora's Box of unintended consequences..
tumbleweed.gif


The issue with the 677 Top-Fi/HK/Logic 7 system is that the headunit talks to the amp via a digital link called MOST.

This link carries many different classes and types of data at the same time. It is not the same as an optical link (TOSLINK) such as found in home Hi-Fi

What needs to be extracted is the audio related data.

Enter the Audiotec Fischer SM125 MOST decoder..this baby sits on the MOST ring and sniffs for and decodes the audio signal and translates it into a 2 channel PCM aka CD type stereo signal which it sends via a TOSLINK to the DSP/amp.

Problem 1 is the headunit has 4 channels, front and rear left and right..the TOSLINK output is two stereo channels left and right.

Problem 2 is that its not clear what level of control the headunit will have on the DSP/amp via the MOST SMI25 bridge box. Will the tone controls work etc.

At this point I wish I hadn't started..but we soldier on.
smilie_bad.gif
headbanger.gif


Compared to the Match 7 DSP/amp which is a relativley easy fit for the 676 Hi-FI option, the new Match 10 DSP/amp has more DSP functions.

In the Match 7 I used a PC to do adjustments, clearly not something for on the hoof changes.

As such the old head unit would never control those anyway.

So Audiotec Fischer's solution is another (expensive) little box that is a UI/control that

Controls the overall volume
Changes basic tone control
Switches on/off various clever DSP tricks
Allows the subwoofers to be tweaked up and down independent of overall volume
Allows you to load different DSP/cabin profiles
etc etc etc

Laid out in the pictures is the baby SMI25 MOST box, the main 10 DSP/amp and the Director head unit for overall control.

Thanjfully AF provides a harness that hangs most of it together.

I jsut have to find power for the boxes, sort out the remote start, work out where to mount the boxes in the boot and the Director in the cabin and also handle the Z4 E89 specific issue of uniquely having both subwoofers AND woofers.

It does turn outon further research that there are other ways to crack this problem..although none are plug n play options.

You can buy MOST boxes that integrate decoding and control (so may address the head unit rear fader and other issues).

You can code the HU to behave like a 676 HU and then patch in your new wiring (maybe both sets are already there?) to a Match 7 type solution.

We carry on..the good news is that having the control unit in the car means that its easy to load different DSP profiles..so I can have the optimum ones for roof and windows down, roof and windows up and roof down, windows up!
smilie_thumbsup.gif
smilie_thumbsup.gif
smilie_thumbsup.gif
 

Attachments

  • 2021-11-25 14.07.35.jpg
    2021-11-25 14.07.35.jpg
    315 KB · Views: 9
  • 2021-11-25 14.34.03.jpg
    2021-11-25 14.34.03.jpg
    283.9 KB · Views: 9
  • 2021-11-25 14.34.09.jpg
    2021-11-25 14.34.09.jpg
    375.5 KB · Views: 9
  • Like
Reactions: wheela

pbondar

Corporal
May 30, 2020
131
49
0
New uprated door speakers with very nice tweeters (didn't have the heart to strip them out of the old 20i) Beter power handling too.

New sub-woofers (2 ohm needed for new amp..old Alpine class D amp at 250 rms was driving 2 4 ohm in parallel, new amp has two 165w 2 ohm channels)

New woofers (OE ones are crap, and the 20i ones are expoxied in)

Plus as these are Audiotec Fischer ones they come with recommended DSP settings..perfect!
 

Attachments

  • 2021-11-26 17.43.21.jpg
    2021-11-26 17.43.21.jpg
    332.8 KB · Views: 14
  • 2021-11-26 17.44.57.jpg
    2021-11-26 17.44.57.jpg
    373.3 KB · Views: 13
  • 2021-11-26 17.45.02.jpg
    2021-11-26 17.45.02.jpg
    547.8 KB · Views: 13
  • 2021-11-26 17.45.07.jpg
    2021-11-26 17.45.07.jpg
    575.7 KB · Views: 16
  • Like
Reactions: wheela

wheela

Sergeant
Jun 4, 2021
359
199
0
Twin Cities, MN
Ride
2015 e84 X1 35i Msport
Coming from old school car audio, I was at first bummed when I found out about that MOST bus, and was initially thinking of doing nothing to the stereo.

But after researching a bit, I found (what I believe anyways;) ) a really great, but pricey option. It's not installed yet, but I went with this Mobridge DSP that takes the place of the stock amp on the MOST ring:

It takes the unprocessed digital signal from the head unit off the most ring, and has fully customizable DSP, 4 sets of fully customizable RCA pre-out, a digital toslink output, and retains all factory stereo controls (volume and equalizer). For the analog pre-outs, each channel (8 total) has its own 1024 band parametric eq and time alignment and level control, and then on top of it there is another global parametric eq and level control that covers all 8 channels. It has no amplifier, so you still need to get amps for each speaker, but that opens up the possibility to get any amp you want vs. being tied to amps that are MOST compatible.

You've obviously already bought a lot of equipment, so it may not fit well for you at this point, but thought I'd mention it incase you didn't know about this option.
 

Attachments

  • Screenshot_20211128-092613_Gallery.jpg
    Screenshot_20211128-092613_Gallery.jpg
    181.8 KB · Views: 15

pbondar

Corporal
May 30, 2020
131
49
0
Coming from old school car audio, I was at first bummed when I found out about that MOST bus, and was initially thinking of doing nothing to the stereo.

But after researching a bit, I found (what I believe anyways;) ) a really great, but pricey option. It's not installed yet, but I went with this Mobridge DSP that takes the place of the stock amp on the MOST ring:

It takes the unprocessed digital signal from the head unit off the most ring, and has fully customizable DSP, 4 sets of fully customizable RCA pre-out, a digital toslink output, and retains all factory stereo controls (volume and equalizer). For the analog pre-outs, each channel (8 total) has its own 1024 band parametric eq and time alignment and level control, and then on top of it there is another global parametric eq and level control that covers all 8 channels. It has no amplifier, so you still need to get amps for each speaker, but that opens up the possibility to get any amp you want vs. being tied to amps that are MOST compatible.

You've obviously already bought a lot of equipment, so it may not fit well for you at this point, but thought I'd mention it incase you didn't know about this option.
Hi, I belatedly discovered this option..looks like a good option…with hindsight I could have transferred most of my Match 7 analogue in configuration from my 20i to 35is and saved a small fortune..

On the plus side the AF stuff has some fabulous software to tune / set up the DSP..didn’t really get into the Mobridge set up.

I’ll see how the AF MOST decoder works and what controls still work.

Realistically with a hard core DSP set up you would leave all the tone controls and sterilisers flat as you wouldn’t want to destroy all that lovingly created time shift / equalisation / low pass band pass high pass / speaker phase and volume balancing …-:)
 
  • Like
Reactions: wheela

wheela

Sergeant
Jun 4, 2021
359
199
0
Twin Cities, MN
Ride
2015 e84 X1 35i Msport
I forgot, it actually has 5 sets of analog pre-out (all with their own dsp), I was thinking 4 sets because 4 are on the harness, but the 5th set is on the chassis.
 

Attachments

  • 20211128_104953.jpg
    20211128_104953.jpg
    188.5 KB · Views: 14
  • 20211128_104944.jpg
    20211128_104944.jpg
    210.4 KB · Views: 11

wheela

Sergeant
Jun 4, 2021
359
199
0
Twin Cities, MN
Ride
2015 e84 X1 35i Msport
Hi, I belatedly discovered this option..looks like a good option…with hindsight I could have transferred most of my Match 7 analogue in configuration from my 20i to 35is and saved a small fortune..

On the plus side the AF stuff has some fabulous software to tune / set up the DSP..didn’t really get into the Mobridge set up.

I’ll see how the AF MOST decoder works and what controls still work.

Realistically with a hard core DSP set up you would leave all the tone controls and sterilisers flat as you wouldn’t want to destroy all that lovingly created time shift / equalisation / low pass band pass high pass / speaker phase and volume balancing …-:)

Yeah, I ageee - I'll do all my tuning with the head unit eq's flat👍
 

pbondar

Corporal
May 30, 2020
131
49
0
I forgot, it actually has 5 sets of analog pre-out (all with their own dsp), I was thinking 4 sets because 4 are on the harness, but the 5th set is on the chassis.
I can see how it would play well with a simple analog multi channel amp..the Match 7 had 4 discrete analog in to then map out to 7 amped and 1 line channels so was a simple and almost perfect fit to the E89 with minimal wiring issues..

Your solution will need some minor splicing into a dedicated bmw connector if you are keeping it neat.
 
  • Like
Reactions: wheela

fmorelli

Lieutenant General
Staff member
Aug 11, 2017
3,614
3,409
0
55
Virginia
Ride
E89 Z4 35i, F10 535d
Very nice work, and nice to see all the details shared out! Did you run into the the way they wired the two footwell mid-bass speakers together on one channel? Mine was the 676. I decided to kill the front center channel and use that as a dedicated channel to unravel the two mid-bass speakers. Freaking Z4 ...

Nice work!
 

pbondar

Corporal
May 30, 2020
131
49
0
Very nice work, and nice to see all the details shared out! Did you run into the the way they wired the two footwell mid-bass speakers together on one channel? Mine was the 676. I decided to kill the front center channel and use that as a dedicated channel to unravel the two mid-bass speakers. Freaking Z4 ...

Nice work!
Hi Phillipo,

Yes the ‘perfect fit’ AudioTechics Fischer Match 7 DSP/amp and harness was wired for ‘normal’ 1/2/3 etc series BMWs.

You had flagged up the woofer issue in your earlier posts.

So what I did was re-config the harness so that the two sub woofer orientated amp channels were driving the woofers..

That left 5 normal amped channels..so 4 to the normal L/R/F/R speakers plus 1 for the central speaker.

That left a line out from the DSP, so I sent that to an Alpine class d 250 watt rms amp which drove to Audison bmw subwoofers in parallel.

So this meant all 8 channels were under full DSP control / management…so centre related acoustics were spot on.

With 600 watts rms the sound levels were adequate!-:)

Quality was FAB compared to either the 676 or 677..
 

pbondar

Corporal
May 30, 2020
131
49
0
Another day checking out to see if the special BMW adapter cable really was plug n play...

I've bought an Audiotec Fischer Match UP 10 DSP digital amp and DSP tp replace the 677 Top Fi set up in the 35is..

https://www.audiotec-fischer.de/en/matc ... s/up-10dsp

I bought the SDM125 box that allows the fibre optic signal with the audio information from the head unit to be decoded and fed to the DSP/amp

https://www.audiotec-fischer.de/en/heli ... ies/sdmi25

Amongst many other bits I bought a specific BMW to Match 1p cable adapter.

Given the confusing and overlapping nomenclature over names for various speaker positions I was suspicous that yet again, like the 676 Hi-FI version and the Match 7 that was 'plug n play' that it wouldn't all work out perfectly.

So I sat down today for about 5 hours to try and see if the custom cable matched and which amp channel (there are 10)on the DSP was powering what speaker..

Super colour coded spreadsheet later..plus multi meter..

So bottomed it out..as I suspected close but not exact.. most of the audio out of the orginal 677 amp goes via a 20 pin connector.

BUT..the rear centre channel between the seats at head height for reasons only known to BMW comes out on another connector whose primary job is to supply power to the amp.

Quite why oh why they did this when there are two spare connector pins going begging on the 20 way connector god only knows.

I guess, yet again, on the E89 they bodged and existing design to save costs.

AF obviously lost the will to do something about it as the 10 channel amp has one spare channel which would marry nicely with the missing rear centre channel..but they just didn't bother..

I'll work a way to patch that channel across to that connector.

It wll have to wait till the spring / summer when I finish building my garage and then can take the back end of the car apart in the warm and dry..all first world problems..
 

Attachments

  • 2022-02-06 15.05.50.jpg
    2022-02-06 15.05.50.jpg
    378.4 KB · Views: 9
  • 2022-02-06 15.06.11.jpg
    2022-02-06 15.06.11.jpg
    370.5 KB · Views: 7
  • 2022-02-06 15.08.03.jpg
    2022-02-06 15.08.03.jpg
    304.6 KB · Views: 6
  • 2022-02-06 15.39.02.jpg
    2022-02-06 15.39.02.jpg
    213.8 KB · Views: 11