Suspension help. Rear end shimmy still.

[Torgus]

If this should be moved to the suspension section feel free. I posted it here as I think it would get more hits and responses.

I got this shimmy with the stock twins but it's much worse with my ST 6466 on meth. When I get on it the rear end likes to shimmy or wander back and forth. A feeling I hate.

My current suspension mods:
Michelin PSS 265 30 19 rears on BBS CHRs. These will change as I am running out of traction.
Quaife LSD
Turner Solid Subframe Mounts
Turner Solid Differential Mounts
Boost Addictions LSD lockdown
Eibach sport springs
Stock 90k BME OEM struts
M3 Front Control Arm Upgrade Kit from ECS

My guess is the stock struts at 90k are shot to shit all around. It rides ok but something is definitely amiss.

Below is what I was thinking of upgrading to. I will try and locate some of the products at a better price like the m3 rear arms for instance. Any comments, suggestions, or what else I should upgrade while in there(or if it's overkill) please let me know:


My E92 rear suspension parts list:

M3 front strut tower brace for 335i:
http://hpashop.com/product.sc?productId=46&categoryId=175
$480


M3 rear lower control arm:
http://www.hpashop.com/BMW-OEM-M3-R...Conversion-Kit-bmw-lowercamberlink-e9x-m3.htm
$600


Rogue Engineering E9X/E82 Rear Spindle Bushing RE.553:
http://www.rogueengineering.com/Rogue-Engineering-E9XE82F8X-Rear-Spindle-Ball-Joint-Pair_p_231.html $180


Rogue Engineering E9X/E82 Subframe/Rear Spindle Bushing RE.092:
http://www.rogueengineering.com/Rog...-SubframeRear-Spindle-Bushing-Pair_p_230.html $180


Rogue Engineering E82/E9X Adjustable Rear Camber Link Set
http://www.rogueengineering.com/Rogue-Engineering-E82E9X-Adjustable-Rear-Camber-Link-Set_p_92.html $585 made for Big Brake Kits.


Rogue Engineering E82/E9X Toe Arm (Pair)
http://www.rogueengineering.com/Rogue-Engineering-E82E9X-Toe-Arm-Pair_p_93.html
$290 order the m3 version


ECS Performance Rear Trailing Arm Set:
https://www.ecstuning.com/b-ecs-par...WQDTZJaYj4FNdnQbTCVsKMgiwaL_wPEQaAoTbEALw_wcB
$210


Brake lines:
https://www.ecstuning.com/b-ecs-par...4oAfQLXidLPlYtQecC3G9vaWjFb2mVCEaAsipEALw_wcB $50 These are the ones in the subframe which were not replaced with Stoptech BBK.


H&R front and rear sway bars
https://www.ecstuning.com/b-h-and-r-parts/front-and-rear-sway-bar-kit/70053kt/
$550


Powerflex Polyurethane Rear Shock Mount 10mm:
https://www.pelicanparts.com/More_Info/PELPFR5416.htm?pn=PEL-PFR5-416&gclid=Cj0KCQjwr4beBRDNARIsAGZaZ5cffDkxWbHjJvvDH4Wd2577533CYBEktIz1JBgr38cL5eU3CTv-o7MaAuUFEALw_wcB&KeepHeader=Y&ByPassCat=Y&null=
$75


Vorshlag camber plate kit for kw v3 on e92 non m3
https://www.hpashop.com/Vorshlag-E8...ber-Plates-vorshlag-camber-plates-e82-e9x.htm
$500


KW v3 Coilovers
https://www.ecstuning.com/b-kw-susp...6JtgF7YnVNJ5HZha20KyfZIwC-XPXMzxoCSDwQAvD_BwE
$2000

Total before install: $5,700

Is my list list overkill? Should I just get a set of KW V3s and see if that fixes the problem? My goal being I never touch my suspension again and fix this rear end shimmy once and for all. FWIW I don't track the car currently, but would like to.

 

[Hydra Performance]

As I've mentioned before, change out the rear toe arms with high-quality adjustable units from Bimmerworld (and not Godspeed, Megan, etc). Note that the OE M3 toe arms won't fit as they are the wrong length, this should make the biggest difference. I would also suggest getting rid of the stock non-M RLCA and shock arrangement, and substituting them with //M parts along with stiffer upper shock mounts, as the stock setup is abominable IMO.

 

[Erichale77]

Excellent set up. I'm running most of that. The H/R front and rear sway bars look the best. They are thickest option I believe. If you decide on getting M3 lower control arms you will need M3 rear shocks as well unless you converted your front spindles to M3 too. And rogue engineering are MUCH better than Bimmerworld IMHO

 

[Torgus]

As I've mentioned before, change out the rear toe arms with high-quality adjustable units from Bimmerworld (and not Godspeed, Megan, etc). Note that the OE M3 toe arms won't fit as they are the wrong length, this should make the biggest difference. I would also suggest getting rid of the stock non-M RLCA and shock arrangement, and substituting them with //M parts along with stiffer upper shock mounts, as the stock setup is abominable IMO.

I am replacing the stock non-M RLCA and shock arrangement with m3 rear arms and m3 KWv3s. Assuming they will sell me a front 335i and a rear m3 package this way. Otherwise I will find coil overs I can buy in that fashion.

Good call on the m3 toe arms, I was not thinking. I changed my comment to "DO NOT" order the m3 version.

For the upper strut mount I was going to go with this: https://www.pelicanparts.com/More_I...7MaAuUFEALw_wcB&KeepHeader=Y&ByPassCat=Y&null

Unless you have another recommendation? I figured PolyU would be strong enough vs the stock squishy foam piece.

Excellent set up. I'm running most of that. The H/R front and rear sway bars look the best. They are thickest option I believe. If you decide on getting M3 lower control arms you will need M3 rear shocks as well unless you converted your front spindles to M3 too. And rogue engineering are MUCH better than Bimmerworld IMHO

H&R are the thickest F&R bars available afaik. Which is why I went/will be going with them.

Yes I will be ordering the rear struts to fit the rear m3 arms. 335i up front, m3 rear.

Good to know about the rogue vs. bimmerworld. This was my suspicion from the start. The rogue stuff looks higher quality.

Thanks for the comments guys!

 

[ShocknAwe]

I've done most of that and I have two comment for you from my experience.

Tune your suspension using spring rates not sway bars. Keep the sways stock. Ramp up the spring rates until your shock travel and oscillation is in check. On the E82 the rear end oscillates 3x the front. This means the traditional aftermarket offerings of 6-7k front and 11-12k rear are inadequate. Different car, just food for thought on your E92

Don't replace the rear trailing arms. The stock units are designed to deform on impact to save you. Safety thing. Those ecs arms won't do that. Stronger is not always better.

Good luck!

 

[Erichale77]

BC Racing fitted me with M3 coilovers in rear and 335i in front with correct spring rates for my E92. FWIW

 

[fmorelli]

@barry@3DM general thoughts and suggestions on first post?

KW V3s are good, but I think the Ohlins R&T design is better. You might consider looking at them.

Filippo

 

[Hydra Performance]

According to this, the non-M toe arm has approx twice the dynamic deflection of the //M arm. I suspect that an aftermarket toe arm would be ever so slightly stiffer than the M arm on account it it being straight and not arched.

 

[frontside0815]

This is a Topic, where i can tell alot, because i really had the same Problem.

First of all: Change out those PSS... I don´t know why, but i was having the same Problem during the season of 2017, after my car was at a Suspension shop and they installed a new Setup (spring rates and custom valved dampfers) my car was not driveable anymore- the rear end was going all over the place. When i changed out the PU Bushings in a few places for uniball bushings, it got better.

Finally in Wintertime 2017/2018 i installed a LSD, new Tires and a lot of other stuff. First drive with the new Setup was finally ok and car could be driven with only 1 finger on the steering wheel during full throttle.

5 Weeks ago i brought my rims to a shop to Mount those old PSS again, because i attended a Drift Training. Guess what? That squishy Feeling is back again.... So i can say, that the tires were the biggest reason for that Feeling (although i was driving the car on PSS in 2016 without any sort of Problems at all!!). Really, i dont know why....

So Change out those tires and then see, how the car behaves.
Besides the tires, i would do the following Setup (i tested 5 Different Setups, bushing Options etc. in my car so i know what i am talking about):

- Full Aluminium Subframe Bushings (almost no additional NVH, see F Series Cars which doesnt have rubber in that place)
- Uniball Toe Arms (we have our own toe arms, if you are interested, very HQ )
- Uniball Bearings for the Trailing Arms (we also have those in stock, Need to be tack welded though)
- Uniball Bearings for the inner lower Camber Arm (those is one of the most important bearings, because it´s highly loaded during accleration) - we have those in stock also (full kits for changing out the oem rubber Thing)
- M3 Guide Rods and Upper Arms

That Setup does only have like 5% additional NVH but is night and day to stock. Most Important are the Aluminium Subframe Bushings and the Bearing for the lower inner camber arm (the one where the strut and spring Mounts to).

Hope that helped you, if i can supply you with parts feel free to contact me, would be nice to get your car driving good again.
But again: First Change the tires!

 

[Rob09msport]

I personally recommend doing all your intended upgrades but that wandering feeling is fixed with toe arms line hydra said. When I did my white line bushings I had that exact feeling you describe it was very unnerving, I belive upper shock mounts and toe arms will fix that issue completely. The other stuff made huge improvement as well but the car was safe and fun without them now it just inspires confidence everywhere.

 

[ShocknAwe]

This is a Topic, where i can tell alot, because i really had the same Problem.

First of all: Change out those PSS... I don´t know why, but i was having the same Problem during the season of 2017, after my car was at a Suspension shop and they installed a new Setup (spring rates and custom valved dampfers) my car was not driveable anymore- the rear end was going all over the place. When i changed out the PU Bushings in a few places for uniball bushings, it got better.

Finally in Wintertime 2017/2018 i installed a LSD, new Tires and a lot of other stuff. First drive with the new Setup was finally ok and car could be driven with only 1 finger on the steering wheel during full throttle.

5 Weeks ago i brought my rims to a shop to Mount those old PSS again, because i attended a Drift Training. Guess what? That squishy Feeling is back again.... So i can say, that the tires were the biggest reason for that Feeling (although i was driving the car on PSS in 2016 without any sort of Problems at all!!). Really, i dont know why....

So Change out those tires and then see, how the car behaves.
Besides the tires, i would do the following Setup (i tested 5 Different Setups, bushing Options etc. in my car so i know what i am talking about):

- Full Aluminium Subframe Bushings (almost no additional NVH, see F Series Cars which doesnt have rubber in that place)
- Uniball Toe Arms (we have our own toe arms, if you are interested, very HQ )
- Uniball Bearings for the Trailing Arms (we also have those in stock, Need to be tack welded though)
- Uniball Bearings for the inner lower Camber Arm (those is one of the most important bearings, because it´s highly loaded during accleration) - we have those in stock also (full kits for changing out the oem rubber Thing)
- M3 Guide Rods and Upper Arms

That Setup does only have like 5% additional NVH but is night and day to stock. Most Important are the Aluminium Subframe Bushings and the Bearing for the lower inner camber arm (the one where the strut and spring Mounts to).

Hope that helped you, if i can supply you with parts feel free to contact me, would be nice to get your car driving good again.
But again: First Change the tires!

What tires do you recommend?

 

[frontside0815]

Like i said i changed from PSS to AD08R and i´m quite happy with them.
As an Allrounder they can be recommended for sure. When it Comes to track i will go to a more Zero tolerance tire (R888R).

 

[The Banshee]

If you decide on getting M3 lower control arms you will need M3 rear shocks as well unless you converted your front spindles to M3 too. And rogue engineering are MUCH better than Bimmerworld IMHO

I have an XI with KW V1’s and if I am understanding you correctly the M-control arm upgrade below will not work?

https://www.ecstuning.com/b-trw-parts/m3-1m-rear-upper-control-arm-upgrade-kit/33322283547kt4/

 

[Erichale77]

No this. https://www.ecstuning.com/b-genuine-bmw-parts/rear-control-arm-right/33326781626/

 

[Rob09msport]

It's the front that doesn't work but people do upgraded bushings or super pro makes adj front

 

[R.G.]

As I've mentioned before, change out the rear toe arms with high-quality adjustable units from Bimmerworld (and not Godspeed, Megan, etc). Note that the OE M3 toe arms won't fit as they are the wrong length, this should make the biggest difference. I would also suggest getting rid of the stock non-M RLCA and shock arrangement, and substituting them with //M parts along with stiffer upper shock mounts, as the stock setup is abominable IMO.

So much this!^^
Altho I've had good exp. w the Megan rear toesies

Not sure if already mentioned cuz multitasking and not reading all posts but one word of advice from the suspension god Bouncilless: Do not change more than one component at a time. It's a pain w alignments and such but will save in time spent looking for dead cat noise that you may suddenly have to troubleshoot + allow you to get a feel of each components effect. GL!

 

[Silver_Sur4r_N54]

If this should be moved to the suspension section feel free. I posted it here as I think it would get more hits and responses.

I got this shimmy with the stock twins but it's much worse with my ST 6466 on meth. When I get on it the rear end likes to shimmy or wander back and forth. A feeling I hate.

My current suspension mods:
Michelin PSS 265 30 19 rears on BBS CHRs. These will change as I am running out of traction.
Quaife LSD
Turner Solid Subframe Mounts
Turner Solid Differential Mounts
Boost Addictions LSD lockdown
Eibach sport springs
Stock 90k BME OEM struts
M3 Front Control Arm Upgrade Kit from ECS

My guess is the stock struts at 90k are shot to shit all around. It rides ok but something is definitely amiss.

Below is what I was thinking of upgrading to. I will try and locate some of the products at a better price like the m3 rear arms for instance. Any comments, suggestions, or what else I should upgrade while in there(or if it's overkill) please let me know:


My E92 rear suspension parts list:
View attachment 16815


M3 front strut tower brace for 335i:
http://hpashop.com/product.sc?productId=46&categoryId=175
$480


M3 rear lower control arm:
http://www.hpashop.com/BMW-OEM-M3-R...Conversion-Kit-bmw-lowercamberlink-e9x-m3.htm
$600


Rogue Engineering E9X/E82 Rear Spindle Bushing RE.553:
http://www.rogueengineering.com/Rogue-Engineering-E9XE82F8X-Rear-Spindle-Ball-Joint-Pair_p_231.html $180


Rogue Engineering E9X/E82 Subframe/Rear Spindle Bushing RE.092:
http://www.rogueengineering.com/Rog...-SubframeRear-Spindle-Bushing-Pair_p_230.html $180


Rogue Engineering E82/E9X Adjustable Rear Camber Link Set
http://www.rogueengineering.com/Rogue-Engineering-E82E9X-Adjustable-Rear-Camber-Link-Set_p_92.html $585 made for Big Brake Kits.


Rogue Engineering E82/E9X Toe Arm (Pair)
http://www.rogueengineering.com/Rogue-Engineering-E82E9X-Toe-Arm-Pair_p_93.html
$290 order the m3 version


ECS Performance Rear Trailing Arm Set:
https://www.ecstuning.com/b-ecs-par...WQDTZJaYj4FNdnQbTCVsKMgiwaL_wPEQaAoTbEALw_wcB
$210


Brake lines:
https://www.ecstuning.com/b-ecs-par...4oAfQLXidLPlYtQecC3G9vaWjFb2mVCEaAsipEALw_wcB $50 These are the ones in the subframe which were not replaced with Stoptech BBK.


H&R front and rear sway bars
https://www.ecstuning.com/b-h-and-r-parts/front-and-rear-sway-bar-kit/70053kt/
$550


Powerflex Polyurethane Rear Shock Mount 10mm:
https://www.pelicanparts.com/More_Info/PELPFR5416.htm?pn=PEL-PFR5-416&gclid=Cj0KCQjwr4beBRDNARIsAGZaZ5cffDkxWbHjJvvDH4Wd2577533CYBEktIz1JBgr38cL5eU3CTv-o7MaAuUFEALw_wcB&KeepHeader=Y&ByPassCat=Y&null=
$75


Vorshlag camber plate kit for kw v3 on e92 non m3
https://www.hpashop.com/Vorshlag-E8...ber-Plates-vorshlag-camber-plates-e82-e9x.htm
$500


KW v3 Coilovers
https://www.ecstuning.com/b-kw-susp...6JtgF7YnVNJ5HZha20KyfZIwC-XPXMzxoCSDwQAvD_BwE
$2000

Total before install: $5,700

Is my list list overkill? Should I just get a set of KW V3s and see if that fixes the problem? My goal being I never touch my suspension again and fix this rear end shimmy once and for all. FWIW I don't track the car currently, but would like to.

If this should be moved to the suspension section feel free. I posted it here as I think it would get more hits and responses.

I got this shimmy with the stock twins but it's much worse with my ST 6466 on meth. When I get on it the rear end likes to shimmy or wander back and forth. A feeling I hate.

My current suspension mods:
Michelin PSS 265 30 19 rears on BBS CHRs. These will change as I am running out of traction.
Quaife LSD
Turner Solid Subframe Mounts
Turner Solid Differential Mounts
Boost Addictions LSD lockdown
Eibach sport springs
Stock 90k BME OEM struts
M3 Front Control Arm Upgrade Kit from ECS

My guess is the stock struts at 90k are shot to shit all around. It rides ok but something is definitely amiss.

Below is what I was thinking of upgrading to. I will try and locate some of the products at a better price like the m3 rear arms for instance. Any comments, suggestions, or what else I should upgrade while in there(or if it's overkill) please let me know:


My E92 rear suspension parts list:
View attachment 16815


M3 front strut tower brace for 335i:
http://hpashop.com/product.sc?productId=46&categoryId=175
$480


M3 rear lower control arm:
http://www.hpashop.com/BMW-OEM-M3-R...Conversion-Kit-bmw-lowercamberlink-e9x-m3.htm
$600


Rogue Engineering E9X/E82 Rear Spindle Bushing RE.553:
http://www.rogueengineering.com/Rogue-Engineering-E9XE82F8X-Rear-Spindle-Ball-Joint-Pair_p_231.html $180


Rogue Engineering E9X/E82 Subframe/Rear Spindle Bushing RE.092:
http://www.rogueengineering.com/Rog...-SubframeRear-Spindle-Bushing-Pair_p_230.html $180


Rogue Engineering E82/E9X Adjustable Rear Camber Link Set
http://www.rogueengineering.com/Rogue-Engineering-E82E9X-Adjustable-Rear-Camber-Link-Set_p_92.html $585 made for Big Brake Kits.


Rogue Engineering E82/E9X Toe Arm (Pair)
http://www.rogueengineering.com/Rogue-Engineering-E82E9X-Toe-Arm-Pair_p_93.html
$290 order the m3 version


ECS Performance Rear Trailing Arm Set:
https://www.ecstuning.com/b-ecs-par...WQDTZJaYj4FNdnQbTCVsKMgiwaL_wPEQaAoTbEALw_wcB
$210


Brake lines:
https://www.ecstuning.com/b-ecs-par...4oAfQLXidLPlYtQecC3G9vaWjFb2mVCEaAsipEALw_wcB $50 These are the ones in the subframe which were not replaced with Stoptech BBK.


H&R front and rear sway bars
https://www.ecstuning.com/b-h-and-r-parts/front-and-rear-sway-bar-kit/70053kt/
$550


Powerflex Polyurethane Rear Shock Mount 10mm:
https://www.pelicanparts.com/More_Info/PELPFR5416.htm?pn=PEL-PFR5-416&gclid=Cj0KCQjwr4beBRDNARIsAGZaZ5cffDkxWbHjJvvDH4Wd2577533CYBEktIz1JBgr38cL5eU3CTv-o7MaAuUFEALw_wcB&KeepHeader=Y&ByPassCat=Y&null=
$75


Vorshlag camber plate kit for kw v3 on e92 non m3
https://www.hpashop.com/Vorshlag-E8...ber-Plates-vorshlag-camber-plates-e82-e9x.htm
$500


KW v3 Coilovers
https://www.ecstuning.com/b-kw-susp...6JtgF7YnVNJ5HZha20KyfZIwC-XPXMzxoCSDwQAvD_BwE
$2000

Total before install: $5,700

Is my list list overkill? Should I just get a set of KW V3s and see if that fixes the problem? My goal being I never touch my suspension again and fix this rear end shimmy once and for all. FWIW I don't track the car currently, but would like to.

I guarantee you'll notice a BIG difference with upgraded TOE ARMS. I had that rear end sway for a while and I had upgraded many other suspension parts before the toe arms. My friend had a used EBAY set laying around after he changed his 135i rear end to and M3 LSD and rear end. I had just bought some Rear sub frame inserts to address this issue of the rear end sway. and while we were putting the inserts he suggested I try the Toe arms also. Even before an alignment I noticed a big improvement in stability. Now the only issue with those Ebay arms is that they seem to lose alignment every few months and run my tires down in the inside edge. Just ordered some Manzo's a few days ago hoping for better quality. Just my 2 cents but I promise you cant go wrong on Toe arms. Just research the brands out there!

 

[ShocknAwe]

Toe arms are a great upgrade, possibly even better than RSFBs. But, I am getting the feeling that every time a bushing is replaced with a bearing or spherical it increases likelihood that the alignment will be knocked out by holes/bumps/rough roads.

That said, I still think it's worth it. Just buy good tires that can resist being driven on an alignment that might be slightly out of whack from time to time.

I guarantee you'll notice a BIG difference with upgraded TOE ARMS. I had that rear end sway for a while and I had upgraded many other suspension parts before the toe arms. My friend had a used EBAY set laying around after he changed his 135i rear end to and M3 LSD and rear end. I had just bought some Rear sub frame inserts to address this issue of the rear end sway. and while we were putting the inserts he suggested I try the Toe arms also. Even before an alignment I noticed a big improvement in stability. Now the only issue with those Ebay arms is that they seem to lose alignment every few months and run my tires down in the inside edge. Just ordered some Manzo's a few days ago hoping for better quality. Just my 2 cents but I promise you cant go wrong on Toe arms. Just research the brands out there!

 

[Silver_Sur4r_N54]

Toe arms are a great upgrade, possibly even better than RSFBs. But, I am getting the feeling that every time a bushing is replaced with a bearing or spherical it increases likelihood that the alignment will be knocked out by holes/bumps/rough roads.

That said, I still think it's worth it. Just buy good tires that can resist being driven on an alignment that might be slightly out of whack from time to time.

Or do what i did and buy a lifetime alignment from Bridgestone/Firestone. They know me by now lol. Maybe 7 or 8 alignments within the past 2 years. I wonder if thread lock would help the alignment stay true??

 

[ShocknAwe]

Or do what i did and buy a lifetime alignment from Bridgestone/Firestone. They know me by now lol. Maybe 7 or 8 alignments within the past 2 years. I wonder if thread lock would help the alignment stay true??

Nice that you can do that. My local Firestone wont touch my car.