Single turbo 100 octane

The Banshee

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Nov 18, 2017
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Anyone here running a single turbo on 100 octane? Tons of info on E85 but I have far better access to 100 octane at a decent price plus I have another daily. I know race gas gives more head room with fuel so wondering what H.P. limits are without P.I. Any tips or suggestions would be appreciated.
 
Oct 27, 2016
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As long as you have at least a stage 1 or stage 2 LPFP you should be able to get away with about 650whp-700whp with racegas no ethanol. Ms109 is what I would use.
 

Clean WHP

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Apr 24, 2017
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following!

if someone has access to race gas, this is actually an amazing options because a Port injection set up will likely cost between 1-2K for a sandwich plate or manifold by the time you get injectors and controller, also a VTT double Shotgun is upwards of 2K when you get new hpfp's.

I bet the price difference of race gas and 93 / E85 over even a decent amount of time will still be less than the price of PI or Double Shotgun, Race Gas could actually be economical in the long run.

Also since its just using the direct injection you get the benefit of not needing to rely on PI controller like what the Double Shotgun gives you, only without all the complexity.

Never really thought of race gas on a single turbo build, but it seems like a nice idea actually
 
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langsbr

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Apr 5, 2017
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What about engine longevity? Are the stock pistons ok at that power level without the added cooling benefit of E85? I know most tuners advise to not try pushing high power on pump gas. Unless they are just running too much timing for pump gas and "hoping" it doesn't knock, what other reason would there be to not push as much timing as is possible on 93 or 100 octane? I know meth gives similar cooling options to E85, so it would ideally have better longevity. Personally I would think 93 +meth would be a better solution than 100 octane, and likely a good bit cheaper.
 

Abacus38

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Nov 2, 2016
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You can make a lot of power on race gas but the motor will a little hotter and if you use leaded gas youll kill your o2 sensors
 

The Banshee

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Nov 18, 2017
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You can make a lot of power on race gas but the motor will a little hotter and if you use leaded gas youll kill your o2 sensors

My thought is to just dial the tune back a bit. Not looking to set records but if I can hit 600-650 awhp on race gas without P.I. I’m good.

I am XI so DB shotgun is out, not sure about the single barrel though.
 

MoreBoost

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Jul 27, 2017
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Try adding some methanol to 93 octane. The results are pretty amazing. Direct injected methanol has an octane rating of 180 in scientific tests. 50% meth and 50% gas is found to be as effective as E85. Ethanol has a 160 octane rating when directly injected. So less meth is needed than ethanol for the same results. The massive amount of oxygen in the meth molecule makes combustion very efficient.

I'm not kidding. Add enough methanol so that you are running 10% meth and 90% 93 octane. Then add just a small amount of propanol or ethanol so that the methanol mixes better with the gasoline.

Run some logs. If fuel pressure is good you can run higher % of meth. Then you can up the boost as well.
When I run meth in my tank I get almost 0 timing corrections. I spray meth as well but my logs look better with some meth added to the main fuel tank than they do if I run just 93 octane and meth injection. Its because the direct injection is far better than port injected meth.

Log of 20% meth below. Wanted to go more rpms but too much traffic.
 

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dyezak

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Try adding some methanol to 93 octane. The results are pretty amazing. Direct injected methanol has an octane rating of 180 in scientific tests. 50% meth and 50% gas is found to be as effective as E85. Ethanol has a 160 octane rating when directly injected. So less meth is needed than ethanol for the same results. The massive amount of oxygen in the meth molecule makes combustion very efficient.

I'm not kidding. Add enough methanol so that you are running 10% meth and 90% 93 octane. Then add just a small amount of propanol or ethanol so that the methanol mixes better with the gasoline.

Run some logs. If fuel pressure is good you can run higher % of meth. Then you can up the boost as well.
When I run meth in my tank I get almost 0 timing corrections. I spray meth as well but my logs look better with some meth added to the main fuel tank than they do if I run just 93 octane and meth injection. Its because the direct injection is far better than port injected meth.

Log of 20% meth below. Wanted to go more rpms but too much traffic.

Uhhhh...no. Let’s not push the ignorant and uneducated to do something as dangerous as using meth in their factory fuel system.
 

MoreBoost

Sergeant
Jul 27, 2017
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Uhhhh...no. Let’s not push the ignorant and uneducated to do something as dangerous as using meth in their factory fuel system.

Ok. Should they not go above e10 as well. Derp.

Been doing it for years. No ill effect.
 

dyezak

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We will skip the health hazards of methanol because if people are willing to run meth injection in a separate injection system they aren't concerned with the health hazards anyhow. FYI if you didn't know though, ethanol is what we drink and other than causing you to make poor decisions there's not much bad about ethanol in small quantities. Methanol on the other hand causes permanent blindness with ingesting as little as 1oz. And worse, methanol is absorbed by your skin. So over time you can accumulate 1oz of absorption just by spilling it on your hands.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Methanol

As little as 10 mL of pure methanol can cause permanent blindness by destruction of the optic nerve. Thirty mL is potentially fatal. The median lethal dose is 100 mL (3.4 fl oz) (i.e. 1–2 mL/kg body weight of pure methanol).

(Ok, so we didn't skip the health impacts)

But lets talk about how ethanol and methanol affects fuel system components. First off ethanol has no impact to any fuel component in our cars. None. Zero. And as an added piece of mind Continental actually certified the N54 DI injectors e85 compliant.

Methanol on the other hand...is highly corrosive to our fueling system. Most importantly our HPFP and Injectors. Not only does methanol impact most rubber compounds elasticity (i.e. it breaks down most rubbers), it's highly corrosive to aluminum. This is why meth injection systems use viton and other special plastics in the lines, tanks, and pumps. Running methanol of significant quantity through an aluminum pump housing like our HPFP (and most importantly letting it sit there in periods of non-operation) will eat the aluminum. Again, this is why people pay for special methanol pumps.

With the cost of a set of injectors running north of $1200, and an HPFP getting near $500 I would say it is probably not wise to advise people to run meth mixtures in their primary fuel system. It just isn't worth the risks when you can get 90% of the benefits from ethanol directly from the pump in most instances.

If you need meth (for whatever reason), use meth injection. It is designed to mitigate these potential problems.
 
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MoreBoost

Sergeant
Jul 27, 2017
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We will skip the health hazards of methanol because if people are willing to run meth injection in a separate injection system they aren't concerned with the health hazards anyhow. FYI if you didn't know though, ethanol is what we drink and other than causing you to make poor decisions there's not much bad about ethanol in small quantities. Methanol on the other hand causes permanent blindness with ingesting as little as 1oz. And worse, methanol is absorbed by your skin. So over time you can accumulate 1oz of absorption just by spilling it on your hands.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Methanol



(Ok, so we didn't skip the health impacts)

But lets talk about how ethanol and methanol affects fuel system components. First off ethanol has no impact to any fuel component in our cars. None. Zero. And as an added piece of mind Continental actually certified the N54 DI injectors e85 compliant.

Methanol on the other hand...is highly corrosive to our fueling system. Most importantly our HPFP and Injectors. Not only does methanol impact most rubber compounds elasticity (i.e. it breaks down most rubbers), it's highly corrosive to aluminum. This is why meth injection systems use viton and other special plastics in the lines, tanks, and pumps. Running methanol of significant quantity through an aluminum pump housing like our HPFP (and most importantly letting it sit there in periods of non-operation) will eat the aluminum. Again, this is why people pay for special methanol pumps.

With the cost of a set of injectors running north of $1200, and an HPFP getting near $500 I would say it is probably not wise to advise people to run meth mixtures in their primary fuel system. It just isn't worth the risks when you can get 90% of the benefits from ethanol directly from the pump in most instances.

If you need meth (for whatever reason), use meth injection. It is designed to mitigate these potential problems.

Right firstly this BS about meth toxicity. I don't advise you to drink meth or rub it all over yourself. Exactly how I wouldn't recommend that you drink gasoline or rub that all over yourself with it's benzene and toluene and whole host of other chemicals. As for ethanol. If you drink pure ethanol you'll do damage to yourself. We can drink ethanol because we encounter it daily in fermented foods but 5g per kg is a lethal dose. The lethal dose for meth is about 0.5g per kg.
There are many organisms that can metabolize methanol and it's far less hazardous to the environment than gasoline is.
Next many of the seals in cars have been alcohol compatible since the 80's. Bmw themselves say that using 3% methanol will not void warranties. They say the same for <10% ethanol but we know many people run E85.
I placed aluminium in pure methanol and I saw no effects. In Europe fuel was allowed to contain 3% methanol since 1988. I've also been spraying meth for 3 years and so far my aluminium block has survived.

Still I recommend flushing the car with gasoline. I.e. run a tank without meth after, just to be safe. I don't it is up to you.
 
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MoreBoost

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dyezak

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Next many of the seals in cars have been alcohol compatible since the 80's. Bmw themselves say that using 3% methanol will not void warranties. They say the same for <10% ethanol but we know many people run E85.
I placed aluminium in pure methanol and I saw no effects. In Europe fuel was allowed to contain 3% methanol since 1988. I've also been spraying meth for 3 years and so far my aluminium block has survived.

First you are telling people that 50% meth is ok, now you are backtracking to 3%. That's a monstrous deviation there. Generally I don't get into arguments but when someone is advising people filling their tank with 50% meth that's so far beyond the realm of acceptability the BS needs to be called out.

50% meth and 50% gas is found to be as effective as E85.

And there's a vast difference between a 3% by volume additive being "ok" and an 85% by volume fueling substitute being validated as OK by the manufacturer of the parts you will be stressing.
 

MoreBoost

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First you are telling people that 50% meth is ok, now you are backtracking to 3%. That's a monstrous deviation there. Generally I don't get into arguments but when someone is advising people filling their tank with 50% meth that's so far beyond the realm of acceptability the BS needs to be called out.



And there's a vast difference between a 3% by volume additive being "ok" and an 85% by volume fueling substitute being validated as OK by the manufacturer of the parts you will be stressing.

Never have I advised using 50%. I simply stated M50 has the same performance effectiveness as E85, found in scientific tests. I advised 10% and I told you I run 20%. Get your facts straight.