Readiness - Catalyst

[studio54]

00 is not a defined value
01 is for a single bank (whatever this means)
02 is standard twin bank
03 is for no post cat o2 on bank 1
04 is for no post cat o2 on bank 2

Thanks ! hmm yes, c_nr_conf_cbk_ex especially concerning rear sensors or not? if not, 01 single bank is maybe like N55 engine, with only one pre cat and only one post cat, or just only one pre cat. Weird that there isn't a value to disable both rear

I may still give a shot with C_CONF_CAT to 00 (and eventually resetting learned lambda with inpa), without unplugging anything, and see what happens.

 

[corbanistan]

I'm going to give C_CONF_CAT a try here in the next few days as well. Interesting how we haven't been able to find a table to remove or at least reduce this behavior. It's actually been annoying the crap outta me Have we agreed that this routine is the 'lambda stimulation' routine from the docs?

 

[TiAgAu]

Excuse my nooby question, the address for C_CONF_CAT on I8AOS is 428C6?

 

[studio54]

Excuse my nooby question, the address for C_CONF_CAT on I8AOS is 428C6?

Yes it is

 

[335iN54]

Yes it is

Did you finally manage to test it?

 

[studio54]

Did you finally manage to test it?

Could not yet because of new year stuffs, but i will probably tonight or tomorrow.

 

[studio54]

I prepared my stock bin with c_conf_cat to 00, i will test in a few hour (original value was 02 as intented in my stock bin).

I noticed something, for example, in my stock rom, before i set them to 00, toggles (enabled by default) on 29F4 & 29F5 are "C6" and not "56", is possible that some toggles differ from region or something ? (like EU vs US)

Is it possible that toggle to "disable lambda stim" we tried before is something else than 01 and that's why it did not work ??
Or those differents toggles (C6 instead of 56, D6 instead of 76, C8 instead of 58....) only concern DTCs ?

 

[carabuser]

I prepared my stock bin with c_conf_cat to 00, i will test in a few hour (original value was 02 as intented in my stock bin).

I noticed something, for example, in my stock rom, before i set them to 00, toggles (enabled by default) on 29F4 & 29F5 are "C6" and not "56", is possible that some toggles differ from region or something ? (like EU vs US)

Is it possible that toggle to "disable lambda stim" we tried before is something else than 01 and that's why it did not work ??
Or those differents toggles (C6 instead of 56, D6 instead of 76, C8 instead of 58....) only concern DTCs ?

From memory those values are used to determine the action upon getting a DTC. So certain bit patterns determine if MIL is illuminated, limp mode activated, code is active or hidden and a few other things. Some regions don't put as much weight on emissions related codes so they just have them logged as shadow codes.

 

[studio54]

From memory those values are used to determine the action upon getting a DTC. So certain bit patterns determine if MIL is illuminated, limp mode activated, code is active or hidden and a few other things. Some regions don't put as much weight on emissions related codes so they just have them logged as shadow codes.

Thanks, hmm so that is maybe an interesting point.

Maybe I am wrong, but I could understand that the catalyst routine never stops cause 29F4 & 29F5 are disabled ?

Let's say we find out the value to shadow (instead of disable) for 29F4 & 29F5, maybe it will stop to run the catalyst routine, while not popping a CEL ? (in my MOT they only check for CEL, they don't read coder from OBD)

EDIT: for example, i remember when flashing a US bin on my EU car, there was a problem (CEL) with 2A13 & 2A18 (DTML device that does not exists on EU car) :
- on my stock EU bin, by default it's not 56 since it is not supposed to exist, it's 01 (but why not 00, i don't know?)
- on US stock bins, it seems to be 56 by default and 00 to disable it

So i wonder what is the difference between 01 and 00 on mine, 00 is to disable the code, but maybe 01 is something more specific, and also disable some routines/functions related to DTML ?

According to that, maybe a different value than 00 or 56 could do something similar with 29F4 & 29F5 ?

 

[carabuser]

Unfortunately those won't help. I'm not even sure it's the catalyst diagnostic routine that's causing it for you.

I've looked at a couple of INA0S cars with the problem and all have been solved with some of the toggles we've tried already. Your car doesn't seem to work the same but then MSD80 is quite different.

If that cat config toggle doesn't help then I think the best course of action is to find exactly why the lambda reading is moving like that by logging the target afr value. If the DME is requesting the target lambda to move like that then we can follow the routines backwards and find out why by logging the signals that make up the target afr. If the DME is requesting a stable afr but the O2 sensors are picking up a pattern like that it could be that the DME is doing some manipulation using trims instead.

Try adding these channels to the next log. I'm not 100% on the scaling as the DME doesn't always match the documentation. It should read about 14.7 at idle. Make sure you also have the normal lambda channels selected as those are the feedback.

 

[studio54]

Unfortunately those won't help. I'm not even sure it's the catalyst diagnostic routine that's causing it for you.

I've looked at a couple of INA0S cars with the problem and all have been solved with some of the toggles we've tried already. Your car doesn't seem to work the same but then MSD80 is quite different.

If that cat config toggle doesn't help then I think the best course of action is to find exactly why the lambda reading is moving like that by logging the target afr value. If the DME is requesting the target lambda to move like that then we can follow the routines backwards and find out why by logging the signals that make up the target afr. If the DME is requesting a stable afr but the O2 sensors are picking up a pattern like that it could be that the DME is doing some manipulation using trims instead.

Try adding these channels to the next log. I'm not 100% on the scaling as the DME doesn't always match the documentation. It should read about 14.7 at idle. Make sure you also have the normal lambda channels selected as those are the feedback.

Right on time !

I was about to go out to test/log with the 00 cat config bin now, i copied your logging parameters, seems ok, checked both"0 Target AFR" bank 1 & 2 ( AFR 1 & 2 are already checked), i come back with results ASAP (probably in 1 or 2 hours)

 

[studio54]

Still same issue with c_conf_cat to 00 (but didn't reset any adaptations with INPA, i wasn't convinced it's that, but maybe i should try)

Logs :
Startup log
My observation : Actual Lambda start bouncing (weird?) before Commanded AFR, then Commanded AFR starts to bounce aswell, but no as much as actual values.

Some driving
It seems to stop when WOT a little bit

Cruising at 2500 rpm in 3rd
We can the commanded AFR Helix is "perfect", bouncing from ~14 to ~15, swapping bank 1 & 2

RPM test
I decided to make a test, at neutral, i tried to determine if it stops and it seems to stop from 4300-4400rpms. Then the commanded AFR 14.67 is flat and nice.

And finally hot idle

 

[carabuser]

Really strange. STFT seems to be what's causing it. I'll take a look if anything could be driving the trims like that.

 

[studio54]

Really strange. STFT seems to be what's causing it. I'll take a look if anything could be driving the trims like that.

Ok thanks.

Yes, the behaviour seems to be inactive :

- on WOT
- at neutral from ~4300 rpm

It's also disabled during first minute or two after startup, but it's probably during the open loop phase.

Maybe a good way to know if it's related to some catalyst routine or not, would be to not disable 29F4 & 29F5, wait the code to trigger (how many kilometers?) and get the light, and see if it's still occuring (but maybe the logic is written to run indefinitely until rear sensors AFR values are correct, even if 29F4&29F5 are triggered).

If it's not related to emissions/catalyst, I wonder why the DME would do this helix ?

 

[carabuser]

I think it's trim related. The fact it stops at higher RPM is expected, a lot of routines are halted at higher RPM to reduce processor load.

I have added a few more parameters that you can log that will narrow things down. Just make sure to have all of them ticked along with Lambda bank 1/2, STFT1/2 and LTFT1/2.

 

[studio54]

I think it's trim related. The fact it stops at higher RPM is expected, a lot of routines are halted at higher RPM to reduce processor load.

I have added a few more parameters that you can log that will narrow things down. Just make sure to have all of them ticked along with Lambda bank 1/2, STFT1/2 and LTFT1/2.

Okay thanks, I will try to log it today.

The "0 Dla_soll_puls1" is in double in the xml, i should only tick one ? (seems to be the same entry)

 

[carabuser]

Yes, that was a copy paste error

 

[studio54]

Here are last logs

Hmm i don't know what happened about "0 Dla_soll_puls1" but i checked it a few hour before logging, just before logging, i gave a last look to Data Logging Options, and it was unchecked,, i thought i was my fault and so i rechecked it, and now i notice it's not in the logs, and it's unchecked again.... maybe because it's in double, it uncheck automatically ? I didn't correct the xml file to remove the double entry. So I am sorry but this particular parameter is not in these last logs :
(other parameters worked well)

Startup

2500 rpm cuising in 3rd

Hot idle

I will correct the xml file and remove the double entry and relog again ASAP.

EDIT : i corrected the XML file, and it's not a double entry problem, "0 Dla_soll_puls1" automatically uncheck by itself

 

[carabuser]

Don't worry too much about that param. I think having it in the list twice does cause issues in MHD.

It does look like the source is the WRAF diagnostic but it's slow tracing things back. There's some more params to log here. You just need a brief idle log, don't worry about driving around.

 

[studio54]

Don't worry too much about that param. I think having it in the list twice does cause issues in MHD.

It does look like the source is the WRAF diagnostic but it's slow tracing things back. There's some more params to log here. You just need a brief idle log, don't worry about driving around.

Thanks, here are new logs with above parameters :

Startup

Just a side note : I noticed that target AFRs stayed at 14.67 flat, i supposed it was because the car didn't move, so i just moved the car a few meter then it activated the small stimulation of target AFRs (but not related to the main problem like you said), maybe previous modifications on the bin would (4331E & 4331F) actually get rid of this small stim of target AFRs but the bin i am using right now is the stock bin without any modification, just DTC 29F4 & 29F5 off.

Idle after moving the car a little bit