Prometh direct port Q/A?

[steve335i]

Hey guys, new here but have owned my 335i for a little over a year. Currently I'm in the process of building my motor, waiting on machine shop.

one question I do have is this:

I want to run the prometh direct port water methanol kit, but in doing so I was told to get the ProMeth pump, lines , and tank. I currently have an AEM v2 kit, and want to utilize as much of it as possible in an effort to save some money. Anyone have experience with this specifically using the AEM stuff? I see the pump I have is 1.0GPH and the ProMeth one is either 1.2/1.3GPH , is it really that much of a difference? I'm running 93 octane and charge pipe meth, not spraying a crazy amount though. However I was told by my tuner that using this direct port setup , I could support 650-700wheel , which would be amazing for pump / meth IMO. I don't want to use E85 currently due to availability ( have to cross state lines) and the drawbacks of the alcohol messing fuel system components up or sitting losing octane or creating water in the fuel. I don't drive the car too much , so E85 isn't feasible for me currently.

this is the kit for reference https://prometh.com/products/bmw-n54-n55-direct-port-methanol-injection-1?variant=44073406286
I will definitely be upgrading to a bigger tank most likely, as the AEM v2 comes with a 1 gallon tank. other than that I'd like to keep everything in place and not have to get new lines, pump, etc.

Anyone mix and match the prometh stuff with the AEM kit?

Thanks in advance.

 

[Rob09msport]

Use a calculator for the size nozzles you are running and make sure you aren't going above like 80 percent of your pumps capacity. But imo it shouldn't matter.

 

[Torgus]

I'm in the same boat but with aquamist. My plan is just to use a 6 port distro block and install the meth bungs. Then use check ball injectors. With one in the CP. As I have 2 in the CP right now I may just use two really small injectors.

I am going to calculate it regarding what the pump can handle. IIRC when Chris@motiv ran his 700whp on 93 and dp meth he needed another pump as the aquamist couldn't or was at its limit which is not worth the risk.

Assuming I need another pump, I'm not sure where to mount it cleanly, but I haven't given it much thought.

 

[Tuppidsay]

you will be fine. i used my bms kit with my prometh dp kit. it was fine

 

[steve335i]

you will be fine. i used my bms kit with my prometh dp kit. it was fine

how much meth are you spraying , how much whp are you making? pump gas?

 

[steve335i]

anyone know what size nozzles the prometh kit comes with? also how do you calculate how much the pump can handle? TIA.

 

[Tuppidsay]

how much meth are you spraying , how much whp are you making? pump gas?

My system ended up being too small for my setup but I had 2gph in the runners and because I went too small I was having to use alot in the charge pipe. I had a prometh 4gph and a cm7. Was good for about 600hp, 100%meth and 92 pump.

The rule of thump for pure meth is to take your crank hp goal and multiply that by 1.5 to 2.0. That's the total system flow your looking for in cc.

So a 600hp wheel car is around 700ish crank. You would start in the 950cc-1400cc range. My experience with my car says 1600cc was more ideal. If I did it again I'd be looking at around 3.5ish gph In the runners. That's 225cc. Times that by 6 runner nozzles your at 1323cc In the manifold. Then I'd run a 3gph/189cc nozzle In the charge pipe. Leaves you at about 1500cc total system. Doing it this way if you needed more or less flow you could just change the size of the charge pipe nozzle for fine tuning.

Pay attention to the nozzles your buying, some are rated @ 100psi and some 150psi etc. So not always Apples to apples when compairing. Prometh rates at 100psi. Yes your pump is capable of higher but as flow increases, pressure goes down. In A large high flow system your never gonna see 200psi. Unless you run multiple pumps or something like that.

The prometh kit will include whatever size nozzles you ask for when you order it.

In my 600hp example with roughly 1500cc of total flow works out to about 23.8gph or 0.48gpm off of your 1 gallon per MINUTE pump. Should be fine. Several of us up here in the Seattle area are runing systems like this with no issues. That is not to say more pressure is not better, it certainly is but would recommend 2 pumps instead of a higher rated single pump if u wanted to upgrade.

 

[KiddyseatKrusher]

Can I get some help finding a dummy’s guide to PI meth setup. I been searching for weeks to figure out how to set this up. Your math up top seems good, but where do you find those nozzles? Any install advice? How can I figure out that calculator business split 6 ways for six cyl?

 

[Tuppidsay]

Start with what mods you have and a realistic goal hp. Then we can math it out from there

 

[Tuppidsay]

Unfortunately the knowledge on meth is few and far between as far a written guides. But there are plenty here with experience that can help.

 

[Jake@MHD]

Don't forget, if your meth controller has a 0-5V "flow" sensor output, you can use the same DME flex fuel logic and give yourself the best possible safety around It would require a pro-tune (no OTS options for this due to niche market). But as long as you select a good tuner I can work with them and give them the few tiny tables tweaks necessary.

 

[KiddyseatKrusher]

That was a super fast and supportive response. Thanks folks. So for starters, what I have now:
08 BMW 535i (145k miles)
TD04 16T twin turbos
Catless Downpipe
JB4 G5
MHD tune
Boost monkey Charge pipe
7" HD FMIC
Silicone Inlets (MMP)
Plus all the equipment updating that needed to go with it. I'm putting the finishing touches on her now. Because buying a tune should be in the final stage, I decided to go meth. Then I found a sale on MMP's port auxiliary injection and decided to buy in. I want to use methanol (with H2O) daily to lower cylinder temps, and methanol pure for power building on track days. I purchased a Splitsec controller an d Bosch injectors to go with the aux fuel. I may wish to use the aux fuel with the fuel system and run meth nozzles in the ports included on the MMP manifold if there is a benefit to that. Mostly, I'm not very versed in methanol and less about modern tuning. I'm more of a Cummins 12v guy so I'm learning TONS as I go. Mostly, I want a monster daily driver with comfort and a real sleeper look. What advice can anyone give me?

 

[KiddyseatKrusher]

Don't forget, if your meth controller has a 0-5V "flow" sensor output, you can use the same DME flex fuel logic and give yourself the best possible safety around It would require a pro-tune (no OTS options for this due to niche market). But as long as you select a good tuner I can work with them and give them the few tiny tables tweaks necessary.

sorry but that was all Greek to me. What kind of flow sensor uses 5v? How does that work? I REALLY want an ultra safe system. Pro- tune OTS? I'm putting this equipment together for Ken Atkinson at Wedge Performance to help me assemble a tune. He advised me on getting port injection meth, but I didn't want to bother him incessantly in how to build out an N54 meth setup.

 

[Tuppidsay]

So unless your gonna run e85 I wouldn't plumb the pi to the fuel system. I am currently running pi meth. Pi changes everything. First, what size injectors did u get? Either way your setup should be good for 550whp-600whp maybe more. 750cc injectors should be ok. Personally I would get the bms jb4 injector controller. It will make your life easier

 

[Tuppidsay]

So unless your gonna run e85 I wouldn't plumb the pi to the fuel system. I am currently running pi meth. Pi changes everything. First, what size injectors did u get? Either way your setup should be good for 550whp-600whp maybe more. 750cc injectors should be ok. Personally I would get the bms jb4 injector controller. It will make your life easier

I also wouldn't bother with water-meth mixtures. 100% meth is easier on the injectors that water. And it will cool as well.

 

[KiddyseatKrusher]

Well, there's two strong bits of advice. Pure meth is easier on the injectors? Crazy. Then pure meth it is. May i ask why you say the BMS is easier? I bought the splitsec, but i suppose i could return it and go BMS. Easy is key for me since I am uncomfortable with how all this works. For instance, how did the injector controllers know how much methanol too inject? What kind of pump should I run? I got
Bosch 62647 Original Equipment 0280158051 Fuel Injector

Injectors. I'm not sure how large they are. Or what psi to run them at. Or even what kind of regulator to run with meth.

 

[Tuppidsay]

So the injector is a 42lb injector. A little low but it's a start. The bms controler works with the jb4 and all gets setup through the jb4. It's integrated and tunes itself to a point. The split second works on its own, and requires a laptop and it's own tune. The setup works but it's 2 systems that don't know what each other are doing. If your flash only, no jb4, it's your only choice but with jb4 it's better to run the jb4 controller. Easier. As far as a pump, use a normal meth pump. No regulator needed. The bms controller will turn it on and off as needed.

 

[KiddyseatKrusher]

I found the specs on that injector set I purchased.
Flow rates @ 43.5 psi / 3 bar
34.5 lb per hour

 

[KiddyseatKrusher]

So the injector is a 42lb injector. A little low but it's a start. The bms controler works with the jb4 and all gets setup through the jb4. It's integrated and tunes itself to a point. The split second works on its own, and requires a laptop and it's own tune. The setup works but it's 2 systems that don't know what each other are doing. If your flash only, no jb4, it's your only choice but with jb4 it's better to run the jb4 controller. Easier. As far as a pump, use a normal meth pump. No regulator needed. The bms controller will turn it on and off as needed.

Thanks for the wisdom Tuppi. I'm now wishing I had gone with a bigger injector and the BMS. I'll get the old controller returned. Do you know if the BMS controller has safeties set in the programming to prevent engine frag if the meth setup fails? IE knock sensor exhaust temp or something similar?

 

[Tuppidsay]

Yes, if afr is off it will kick you into map4 safety.