No. This would get its own dedicated hole in the VC. It is completely separate from the rest of the system with reference to lines and valves.
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- Thread starter Chris@VargasTurboTech
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18 posts in ... thank you @martymil for bringing some clarity.
So if I've understood the diagram:
Really as long as the relief valve is anywhere in the diagram prior to either the flapper or PCV valve, it's good. Doesn't have to be in the valve cover per se. Just on the VC side of the external valves?
Thanks,
Filippo
So if I've understood the diagram:
Really as long as the relief valve is anywhere in the diagram prior to either the flapper or PCV valve, it's good. Doesn't have to be in the valve cover per se. Just on the VC side of the external valves?
Thanks,
Filippo
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I done a simple diagram to make it simple and yes you could have the valve there too on a t piece
Precisely. Except instead of having one person say, "Yes" I'm having to answer my own question by responding to you. Nobody is drilling a hole in the stock VC to do this. I'm not saying people are asking that, but the potential buyer for this is probably rocking a stock VC and an external kit, lets be honest... And @fmorelli's question in his first post were probably the most valid.
Also, it isn't going to be a flapper anymore. The flapper literally flaps open and closed based on my understanding of the photos of it. Its an orificed swing valve of some kind, although my pics doesn't show the orifice.
We will be using check valves of some sort in order to make this thing useful.
Low Pressure Flapper Valve, Male AN Fittings - Pegasus Auto Racing Supplies
Our low-pressure check valves allow virtually unimpeded flow in one direction, yet the internal flapper prevents flow in the opposite direction. They are used in AN fuel and oil scavenge lines.
Is there any information on the internal design?
Edit: $143
So indeed a flapper. When looking at this another way, I've been a believer in deleting the flapper on dual occ setups lately. So most of this is actually a non-factor in that realm of thought.
Edit: $143
So indeed a flapper. When looking at this another way, I've been a believer in deleting the flapper on dual occ setups lately. So most of this is actually a non-factor in that realm of thought.
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its basically exactly the same as factory but without the hole
A question for Chris@VargasTurboTech, couldn't we just get rid of the pvc valve altogether and just run a check valve instead with this new valve ?
Like this
A question for Chris@VargasTurboTech, couldn't we just get rid of the pvc valve altogether and just run a check valve instead with this new valve ?
Like this
its basically exactly the same as factory but without the hole
A question for Chris@VargasTurboTech, couldn't we just get rid of the pvc valve altogether and just run a check valve instaed with this new valve ?
Like this
You can do this now. But an oem valve is considered more reliable. That is the answer I've received anyway on this subject. I run two inline. Pcv and check Valve on manifold side to prevent occ pressurization.
I would have thought using a high quality check valve would be a lot better as its only a little ball moving backward and forward.
http://performance.vargasturbo.com/...oute=product/product&path=65_59&product_id=93
This one? three choices -10 barb, -10 ORB, -8 barb
Filippo
We offer all sorts of check valves for the PCV system as noted above, inline barbed makes so much more sense than AN fittings. They are designed to simply go inline of any -8 or -10 AN hose. So why waste the money on two extra fittings. Run your hose, cut a section the middle and add the check valve pointing in the right direction. If you have our PCV set up, or valve cover or both, it becomes even easier, as we have a -10ORB check valve that will screw into any hole on the system. An OEM valve is considerably more reliable?What makes you say that. The opposite is actually true. Also, the OEM valve has a TINY orifice. When you are upgrading your PCV system going external. You want to completely remove the stock PCV valve to gain maximum venting, We have PCV routing guides for everything. You can plumb the vacuum relief in no problem. Also, a stock valve cover would be pretty easy to drill, and tap for -10ORB its just a standard thread. the O-ring will seal on the outside. I attached the routing guides for people, this is not rocket science people tend to over complicate PCV operation.
As for the explanation as a BOV, that's really confusing things for people. The name implies EXACTLY what it is. Think of an air compressor, you have a pump, a tank. If you turn the pump on with nothing to check pressure it will just build pressure until something blows out, a hose, etc. Now add a pressure relief valve to the system that is set to open at say 150psi. When the tank reaches 150 psi it opens venting the excess pressure to avoid damage. Now think of your crankcase as the tank and your vacuum source as the pump. If you leave it unchecked it will just provide vacuum until something cannot hold it, usually its the seals you just start pulling past the seals, (whistling sound) now add in the vacuum relief valve, when you get to 10,12,14" it will simply open, and hold vacuum there protecting the crankcase from too much vacuum. It's very very simple.
Chris
As for the explanation as a BOV, that's really confusing things for people. The name implies EXACTLY what it is. Think of an air compressor, you have a pump, a tank. If you turn the pump on with nothing to check pressure it will just build pressure until something blows out, a hose, etc. Now add a pressure relief valve to the system that is set to open at say 150psi. When the tank reaches 150 psi it opens venting the excess pressure to avoid damage. Now think of your crankcase as the tank and your vacuum source as the pump. If you leave it unchecked it will just provide vacuum until something cannot hold it, usually its the seals you just start pulling past the seals, (whistling sound) now add in the vacuum relief valve, when you get to 10,12,14" it will simply open, and hold vacuum there protecting the crankcase from too much vacuum. It's very very simple.
Chris
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You still need a flapper or a check valve between the catch can and rear inlet, none of your pics show that otherwise you wont have any negative vacuum in your crank case on idle so using the new valve is pointless.
You have to use a flapper or a check valve to seal the system and then the new valve will meter tha vacuum
You have to use a flapper or a check valve to seal the system and then the new valve will meter tha vacuum
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Exactly, if you want to seal the system you need the check valve. These guides are for 99% of people who will NOT run the vacuum relief, if you put a check valve in the high side, and do NOT run the relief which most will not you have unchecked vacuum into the system, and as soon as you start the car it will immediately pull vacuum through the seals. This is why all our guides leave the high side open after the can leaving a metered leak to protect people from themselves. At some point, I can have Tony redo the routing guides for a sealed system, but its pretty low on the list of things to do honestly.
But you have to run either the oem flapper or the new closed setup with relief valve to help with the turbo oil scavenging or the crankcase will never see any vacuum what so ever.
Martin, this is incorrect sir. We designed the system, and have ran it for years. At this point, it appears you are not reading.
We have METERED VACUUM LEAK THROUGH THE HIGH SIDE CAN.
The Vaccum Relief is nothing more than an ADJUSTABLE Vacuum leak.
Yes if you tried to run the high side with nothing on it, no can, no lines, no anything you would have no vacuum. But introduce all those things into the system, and its a METERED leak, meaning you get some vacuum into the system. This is proven many times over in all our setups running this way.
If you wish to argue about it, please start your own thread. Why is PCV operation so hard for people to wrap their head around?
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I can wrap my head around it quite fine and I know exactly what I'm doing.
Let's just leave it there
Let's just leave it there
So @Chris@VargasTurboTech I know you said you may have Tony redo the guides, but I think I have a one-off (or close to) system so I have a question on how to run it with stock VC.
My low side is externalized using your parts (8an PCV delete > 8an hose w/ inline 2jz valve > can > VTT check valve > TB adapter) but my high side is a bit more complicated. Essentially it's a modified version of the VS breather setup so I can run vacuum on low side and full VTA on boost. Its running as such:
Stock flapper > 10AN line > breather can w/ filter on top ("center" of my high side setup)< 10AN line with 10AN VTT check valve stopping flapper from pulling air from anything other than breather filter < 10AN fitting on front of head. I also have your oil cap breather for more venting.
Would I just pull off the flapper and run a Y like mentioned above still? So basically flapper delete > Y with one side going to this valve, and the other running to my can? Or would I need to add a check valve on the can-side of the Y still? Only reason I'm confused is because it sounds like if I had a check valve on the can side of the Y prior to the can ( Y > vacuum valve, Y > check valve > breather can) I would no longer have a vacuum source due to the only inlet/filter being blocked by the check valve. Or am I still misunderstanding, and this valve would now be my entire source of vacuum for the system rather than the breather filter providing the inlet for vacuum? If the latter is the case, would I just move the check valve from the head port side of my dual input can to the (currently) flapper/CCV side since theres no vacuum being pulled from the can? Or would I need to add an additional check valve, thus having one on both sides of the breather can?
I know you guys like to KISS when it comes to PCV at VTT, and it sounds like for your system on a stock VC this would just plug into the outlet on your CC. But I like having all the extra venting for safe measure so I'd rather not get rid of the dual inlet breather can setup if possible, however I've always wondered if I'm pulling enough vacuum with my current setup. I dont experience any smoking or other vacuum-deficient symptoms right now so I know it's at least okay, but if I could get more ring seal etc out of my setup I'm okay with a hair more tweaking.
My low side is externalized using your parts (8an PCV delete > 8an hose w/ inline 2jz valve > can > VTT check valve > TB adapter) but my high side is a bit more complicated. Essentially it's a modified version of the VS breather setup so I can run vacuum on low side and full VTA on boost. Its running as such:
Stock flapper > 10AN line > breather can w/ filter on top ("center" of my high side setup)< 10AN line with 10AN VTT check valve stopping flapper from pulling air from anything other than breather filter < 10AN fitting on front of head. I also have your oil cap breather for more venting.
Would I just pull off the flapper and run a Y like mentioned above still? So basically flapper delete > Y with one side going to this valve, and the other running to my can? Or would I need to add a check valve on the can-side of the Y still? Only reason I'm confused is because it sounds like if I had a check valve on the can side of the Y prior to the can ( Y > vacuum valve, Y > check valve > breather can) I would no longer have a vacuum source due to the only inlet/filter being blocked by the check valve. Or am I still misunderstanding, and this valve would now be my entire source of vacuum for the system rather than the breather filter providing the inlet for vacuum? If the latter is the case, would I just move the check valve from the head port side of my dual input can to the (currently) flapper/CCV side since theres no vacuum being pulled from the can? Or would I need to add an additional check valve, thus having one on both sides of the breather can?
I know you guys like to KISS when it comes to PCV at VTT, and it sounds like for your system on a stock VC this would just plug into the outlet on your CC. But I like having all the extra venting for safe measure so I'd rather not get rid of the dual inlet breather can setup if possible, however I've always wondered if I'm pulling enough vacuum with my current setup. I dont experience any smoking or other vacuum-deficient symptoms right now so I know it's at least okay, but if I could get more ring seal etc out of my setup I'm okay with a hair more tweaking.
