New VTT intake manifold anyone?

Dumaurier7

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May 19, 2020
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Hi all, anyone running the new stock location intake manifold yet? I love the design and appearance, it also appears to flow more than stock! Then there is also the PI / Meth options , this piece would be a winner in my book IF they had just included the stand offs to reuse the stock air box or like in my case the AFE intake! Sad how these manifold designers decided your intake options for you beforehand ……….Bummer!





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Torgus

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From an intake manifold design perspective having the trumpets built into the floor is a bad design. You ideally want them raised off the floor. The walls/floors of an intake manifold is where air moves the slowest. This is intake manifold design 101. If you are going to the hassle of making a billet manifold why not improve the runner design? Nicely shaped and sized trumpets spaced off the floor. Plenum volume looks about the same as stock and is center feed, so no improvement there. The 2 piece design is for manufacturing purposes, it works and likely will not leak. Looks like it weighs more than stock + a PI spacer. Does not seem like an improvement other than it is metal and has PI. I guess it is available in a number of bright colors which the gram fuk bois like.

Example of correctly designed trumpets/velocity stacks:

m3-intake-manifold-12.jpg


This is a cheap 2JZ manifold with PI for $1200. It comes with a larger throttle body etc. Kind of crappy trumpets but still spaced off the floor and an 'ok' vstack/trumpet

s-l1600.jpg

BMW sold shit ton more N54s than Toyota with their 2JZ.


Why anyone would buy this over the BMS version or the bajillion sheet metal center feed intakes which cost well under 1/2 and perform the same is beyond me.

BMS style: https://burgertuning.com/products/n54-n55-intake-manifold-for-bmw
Screen_Shot_2018-05-08_at_9.23.04_AM_300x300.png


Also, it's not like VTT has a good record with N54 intake manifolds. They still sell the FF style intake manifold which has major issues and they refuse to correct them:

Also for that price no phenolic spacer or at least an upsell option for one?

The cheapest you can do is $1700 with 550cc injectors. No option for 750cc which is what fits 99% of N54 builds? 550 is a touch small, 900 a touch too big. 750cc is the sweet spot for most N54 PI builds especially if you compensate for boost pressure.

Also, like most things, if someone can find a way to fuck something up it is VTT. I assume this is drop shipped from China like 99% of their products with zero quality control. Buyer beware like all of their products.
 
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Dumaurier7

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Anyone know what going on at EOS? I've been waiting for an N54 intake manifold and PM4 controller to become available since some time last year, their e mail response is always the same (the castings need to be machined!) but nothing changes! maybe it's time to consider the alternatives.:angry:
 

martymil

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From an intake manifold design perspective having the trumpets built into the floor is a bad design. You ideally want them raised off the floor. The walls/floors of an intake manifold is where air moves the slowest. This is intake manifold design 101. If you are going to the hassle of making a billet manifold why not improve the runner design? Nicely shaped and sized trumpets spaced off the floor. Plenum volume looks about the same as stock and is center feed, so no improvement there. The 2 piece design is for manufacturing purposes, it works and likely will not leak. Looks like it weighs more than stock + a PI spacer. Does not seem like an improvement other than it is metal and has PI. I guess it is available in a number of bright colors which the gram fuk bois like.

Example of correctly designed trumpets/velocity stacks:

View attachment 78685

This is a cheap 2JZ manifold with PI for $1200. It comes with a larger throttle body etc. Kind of crappy trumpets but still spaced off the floor and an 'ok' vstack/trumpet

View attachment 78686
BMW sold shit ton more N54s than Toyota with their 2JZ.


Why anyone would buy this over the BMS version or the bajillion sheet metal center feed intakes which cost well under 1/2 and perform the same is beyond me.

BMS style: https://burgertuning.com/products/n54-n55-intake-manifold-for-bmw
Screen_Shot_2018-05-08_at_9.23.04_AM_300x300.png


Also, it's not like VTT has a good record with N54 intake manifolds. They still sell the FF style intake manifold which has major issues and they refuse to correct them:

Also for that price no phenolic spacer or at least an upsell option for one?

The cheapest you can do is $1700 with 550cc injectors. No option for 750cc which is what fits 99% of N54 builds? 550 is a touch small, 900 a touch too big. 750cc is the sweet spot for most N54 PI builds especially if you compensate for boost pressure.

Also, like most things, if someone can find a way to fuck something up it is VTT. I assume this is drop shipped from China like 99% of their products with zero quality control. Buyer beware like all of their products.

Raised trumpets have no real world benefit on an n54 forced induction engine as we tested the original fab factory vs plazmaman manifolds.

It was posted on bummer boost before it got taken down and all the info was there.

In NA applications they have a great benefit as you can tune the power curve using different length runners to suit your needs unless
you have a boosted engine revving to 18k rpm.
 
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SlowE93

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From an intake manifold design perspective having the trumpets built into the floor is a bad design. You ideally want them raised off the floor. The walls/floors of an intake manifold is where air moves the slowest. This is intake manifold design 101. If you are going to the hassle of making a billet manifold why not improve the runner design? Nicely shaped and sized trumpets spaced off the floor. Plenum volume looks about the same as stock and is center feed, so no improvement there. The 2 piece design is for manufacturing purposes, it works and likely will not leak. Looks like it weighs more than stock + a PI spacer. Does not seem like an improvement other than it is metal and has PI. I guess it is available in a number of bright colors which the gram fuk bois like.

Example of correctly designed trumpets/velocity stacks:

View attachment 78685

This is a cheap 2JZ manifold with PI for $1200. It comes with a larger throttle body etc. Kind of crappy trumpets but still spaced off the floor and an 'ok' vstack/trumpet

View attachment 78686
BMW sold shit ton more N54s than Toyota with their 2JZ.


Why anyone would buy this over the BMS version or the bajillion sheet metal center feed intakes which cost well under 1/2 and perform the same is beyond me.

BMS style: https://burgertuning.com/products/n54-n55-intake-manifold-for-bmw
Screen_Shot_2018-05-08_at_9.23.04_AM_300x300.png


Also, it's not like VTT has a good record with N54 intake manifolds. They still sell the FF style intake manifold which has major issues and they refuse to correct them:

Also for that price no phenolic spacer or at least an upsell option for one?

The cheapest you can do is $1700 with 550cc injectors. No option for 750cc which is what fits 99% of N54 builds? 550 is a touch small, 900 a touch too big. 750cc is the sweet spot for most N54 PI builds especially if you compensate for boost pressure.

Also, like most things, if someone can find a way to fuck something up it is VTT. I assume this is drop shipped from China like 99% of their products with zero quality control. Buyer beware like all of their products.
Hater.



























😅😅😅👋🏾
 

Dumaurier7

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May 19, 2020
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Raised trumpets have no real world benefit on an n54 forced induction engine as we tested the original fab factory vs plazmaman manifolds.

It was posted on bummer boost before it got taken down and all the info was there.

In NA applications they have a great benefit as you can tune the power curve using different length runners to suit your needs unless
you have a boosted engine revving to 18k rpm.
I agreed with this when the big T responded but I wasn't looking for a debate at the time.........and not now either! 🤣 If EOS continues to muck around, I may still give this a whirl!
 
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martymil

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I agreed with this when the big T responded but I wasn't looking for a debate at the time.........and not now either! 🤣 If EOS continues to muck around, I may still give this a whirl!

Choose which ever manifold suit your needs and budget, just saying trumpets don't have any benefit on our engines as the myth has been busted.
 

Torgus

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@ Dumaurier7 Ugh now I can see his response. Thanks ;) the EOS IM is nice. They were fairly responsive every time I reached out to them. I would just drop them an email/line.

@DMECH1 Go use the WBM and find the data, I was on that site a lot and I never saw it. Should be quick to find assuming it is there: https://web.archive.org/web/20230000000000*/www.bummerboost.com Also if you tested it why don't you have the data? Who is this we you speak of?

Trumpets/Velocity stacks are not going to hurt anyone. If they give a few % of increased performance, great. If you are going through the trouble of making a new IM where adding trumpets is easy there is no reason not to in my opinion. Air moves slowest by the walls and floor of an intake manifold even under boost. This is why you ideally don't make a vstack flush/build the vstack/tapered edge into the floor. I guess it is better than cut a 90 degree right angle for airflow reasons but it takes little effort to 'do things right'.

Velocity stacks help in NA and FI as it smooths the air coming into the intake runner allowing better laminar flow. Yes more crucial in NA especially if you tune the length of the runner, but there are still gains in FI. You can also play the game with tapered runners so the V stack up top is larger with the runner tapering down to match the head port:
velocity_stack_v2.png


Laminar flow:
df71e662fb8f09d2767a19e1daca59ae45472567.gif



Most 2JZ intake manifolds have trumpets/vstacks. Same with GTRs both old and new. A lot of aftermarket MitsiEvo/Subi plenums/intake manifolds with these trumpets inside them as well. Most of the time aftermarket intake manifolds add in trumpets/vstacks. An upgraded N54 head can rev to 8200 on the stock DME for a grand.

R35s rev out to 7k from the factory:
p-15858-Alpha_GT-R_Carbon_Fiber_Intake_Manifold_11.jpg



The manifold features internal velocity stacks built into the center section. The “trumpet” style horns are engineered within the manifold on each runner to smooth the airflow going into the engine and maximize airflow rates entering the induction system.

No trumpet simulation from Greddy:
43364793.jpg


All small things that can help increase your overall power and also what you see on most other FI platforms for manifold design.

The plazmaman n54 intake manifold, and most of the other IM he offers have trumpets/Vstacks. Too bad they refuse to offer a charge pipe:
BMW-N54-7.jpg


Again: If you are going through the trouble of making a new IM where adding trumpets is easy there is no reason not to in my opinion.
 
Last edited:

martymil

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RUBBISH, go spend and waste your money to make yourself a manifold on n54's just so you can see it for yourself.

The data was there with back to back testing the only difference being the manifold, you want to see it find it yourself.
 
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ShocknAwe

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Can't see any benefit unless you really just need that last 10-25whp in the case of a totally optimized forward facing manifold revving over 8k with huge ST/twins and a ported head. Bling?

The stock IM is ugly but it flows very well works with any stock charge pipe, any intake, and is lighter and better heat insulated.
 
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jzx_andy

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An upgraded N54 head can rev to 8200 on the stock DME for a grand.

Bit off topic, but what would one spend ~$1k on to turn an unopened n54 into a motor that can rev to 8200? Does this assume rods and pistons have already been swapped for aftermarket ones, or are the factory ones fine to see those sorts of rpms?

Always been interested in running a higher redline, though I haven't personally heard of many do it other than sending an unopened motor to 7.5-8k rpm and hoping for the best lol.
 

martymil

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Can't see any benefit unless you really just need that last 10-25whp in the case of a totally optimized forward facing manifold revving over 8k with huge ST/twins and a ported head. Bling?

The stock IM is ugly but it flows very well works with any stock charge pipe, any intake, and is lighter and better heat insulated.

The stock manifold heats up and splits open like a sardine can, I had it happen eating some plastic with shrapnel bending a valve and taking out
a stock turbo with it.

With the fab factory manifold I picked up some power, i posted it and picked up more with plazmaman.

The info was there I just couldn't be fucked to find it.

Anything is better than stock, it will make you some extra power even the Chinese rubbish will make the same or more.

Fi doesn't need fancy runners unless your fully ported with cams and n53 head revving to 8500rpm plus as our heads are the limitation.

The cost outweighs the gain.

With Fab Factory and eos manifolds you will need the phenolic gasket as they heat soak badly and will actually cost you power, so if going that way don't forget to get it.
 

martymil

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Bit off topic, but what would one spend ~$1k on to turn an unopened n54 into a motor that can rev to 8200? Does this assume rods and pistons have already been swapped for aftermarket ones, or are the factory ones fine to see those sorts of rpms?

Always been interested in running a higher redline, though I haven't personally heard of many do it other than sending an unopened motor to 7.5-8k rpm and hoping for the best lol.

You will need at least a fully built motor with a vac stage 3 head or N53 with shrick high lift cams to get to 8200rpm reliably.

A stock motor wont last one a track meet with that rpm before sending it to the parts bin.

I posted a pic where the rod let go on our single turbo at 7k rpm slicing the motor in half, we call it light saber mod.
 
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doublespaces

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I'm not sure if you guys actually enjoy the fighting or not. It's been years and I would have thought we have graduated to an in person fist fight by now. Let's add Tony back into the thread and things can be like the good Ole days.