Index 1 injectors better than index 12s?

[jakeg]

Are index 1 injectors better or on par with index 1s?

I just got eaten alive on Facebook after someone posted some beat index 1s for 500$, and I said they were worthless.

Apparently even at higher mileage they're supposedly better than 12s, even though I've never heard of that being the case, or anyone of the tuners/shops I've spoken with.

 

[Torgus]

Are index 1 injectors better or on par with index 1s?

I just got eaten alive on Facebook after someone posted some beat index 1s for 500$, and I said they were worthless.

Apparently even at higher mileage they're supposedly better than 12s, even though I've never heard of that being the case, or anyone of the tuners/shops I've spoken with.

I agree basically worthless, especially used.

I don't think bmw would have revised(or had their OEM) revise the injectors 12+ times and given free replacements for 10 years or 150k miles(which costed them a ton)if the version 1-11 were any good. Even if they flowed more(I doubt) the reliability is the issue.

IIRC there was 12 revisions and in the 12th two options one had an internal filter and thermal compensating oil
and one did not. IIRC The filter/oil rev 12 is all that is sold nowadays.

https://blog.fcpeuro.com/difference-between-direct-fuel-injector-13538648937-and-13538616079. <- you can read more here.

 

[jakeg]

I agree basically worthless, especially used.

I don't think bmw would have revised(or had their OEM) revise the injectors 12+ times and given free replacements for 10 years or 150k miles(which costed them a ton)if the version 1-11 were any good. Even if they flowed more(I doubt) the reliability is the issue.

IIRC there was 12 revisions and in the 12th two options one had an internal filter and thermal compensating oil
and one did not. IIRC The filter/oil rev 12 is all that is sold nowadays.

https://blog.fcpeuro.com/difference-between-direct-fuel-injector-13538648937-and-13538616079. <- you can read more here.

Yeah thats* what I thought. Idiots on facebook I suppose.

Thanks for your reply

 

[Krampus]

Does anyone have accurate information on technical revision changes from index 1 to the latest index 12? This would be just interesting to know

 

[KClemente]

I've always believed in index 1's almost being on par with index 12's. I've got close to 180k miles on my original index 1's so far and everytime I pull the spark plugs, its always dry and doesn't smell like fuel. No popping on idle either

While my sample size isn't huge, people over on other forums also agree that index 1's are decent.

A revision could be due to anything, especially manufacturing processes.

 

[Bad_335i]

Running strong at a 145k with the original index 1s and with a doc race single turbo kit on full e85. No misfires and no fuel on plugs. Knock on wood, but makes sense bmw tried cutting costs on the second revision and realized they f’d up and had to go through 11 more revisions.

Granted I do have a set of 12s sitting JIC. But these 1s have never given me an issue. If they ever do, I might just get them cleaned by Stryker Performance and I’m sure they’ll be up to par again.

 

[SLOWESTN54]

Running strong at a 145k with the original index 1s and with a doc race single turbo kit on full e85. No misfires and no fuel on plugs. Knock on wood, but makes sense bmw tried cutting costs on the second revision and realized they f’d up and had to go through 11 more revisions.

Granted I do have a set of 12s sitting JIC. But these 1s have never given me an issue. If they ever do, I might just get them cleaned by Stryker Performance and I’m sure they’ll be up to par again.

ahh yes instead of reverting back to the original design they developed 11 more revisions to save money.

 

[SlowE93]

ahh yes instead of reverting back to the original design they developed 11 more revisions to save money.

Sounds legit.

 

[Torgus]

Also BMW does not make these. They had a contract with VDO IIRC. They had to redesign 13 times technically. Not because they wanted too. It would not surprise me if they were also somehow on the hook for replacement costs. Hell didn't they do 10 years or something crazy for free replacements?

They signed a contract with BMW. No way BMW did not have a clause in there saying if there is a serial defect they have to fix it. Leaking injectors blow motors and creates other issues. I have seen a muffler literally piss fuel out of it.

This is likely why they changed to a different style of DI injector for the future models etc.

TL DR: If you want rev 1s have at it.

 

[Bad_335i]

ahh yes instead of reverting back to the original design they developed 11 more revisions to save money.

Well that’s probably what they did, each revision getting closer to the original design. Obviously they won’t name the 12th injector revision index 1’s..

 

[SlowE93]

Well that’s probably what they did, each revision getting closer to the original design. Obviously they won’t name the 12th injector revision index 1’s..

So it took them 11 tries to get close to....fuck it, nevermind.

 

[SlowE93]

Also BMW does not make these. They had a contract with VDO IIRC. They had to redesign 13 times technically. Not because they wanted too. It would not surprise me if they were also somehow on the hook for replacement costs. Hell didn't they do 10 years or something crazy for free replacements?

They signed a contract with BMW. No way BMW did not have a clause in there saying if there is a serial defect they have to fix it. Leaking injectors blow motors and creates other issues. I have seen a muffler literally piss fuel out of it.

This is likely why they changed to a different style of DI injector for the future models etc.

TL DR: If you want rev 1s have at it.

Agreed with my associate and TL DR, I'm out !

 

[Bad_335i]

So it took them 11 tries to get close to....fuck it, nevermind.

I’m not saying that’s what happened, but don’t you think it’s plausible they incrementally increased the quality each time to point where it is the cheapest to produce but without a high failure rate. Plus VDO is a multi-million dollar corporation and this happens again and again with engineers. Looks to me like an attempt at cutting costs gone wrong. I am an automotive engineer and this is on par with how many of these companies operate.

I’m not the only guy out here running Index 1s on a high mileage modified car. They do seem to be on par with 12s in term of maintenance intervals but who knows maybe I got a set of magical Index 1s that are better than the rest.

 

[wheela]

I’m not saying that’s what happened, but don’t you think it’s plausible they incrementally increased the quality each time to point where it is the cheapest to produce but without a high failure rate. Plus VDO is a multi-million dollar corporation and this happens again and again with engineers. Looks to me like an attempt at cutting costs gone wrong. I am an automotive engineer and this is on par with how many of these companies operate.

I’m not the only guy out here running Index 1s on a high mileage modified car. They do seem to be on par with 12s in term of maintenance intervals but who knows maybe I got a set of magical Index 1s that are better than the rest.

I have heard others post about good luck with index 1's, obviously that's just anecdotal. Revising design to cut cost is normal, but 12 revision of poor reliability injectors, in what time frame, before finally getting it right? That's a poor mark on their company. I'm not saying Index 1's are or aren't as good as 12's, I'm n55 so I don't even run these - it just floors me how a company can blow through so many bad revisions in such short time without changing their approach. How was that tolerated through 12 revisions.

 

[Torgus]

The latest index 12s were released in October 2016 fyi. N54s started shipping in 2006. 10 years technically 13 revisions. More than 1 revision a year assuming they were all spread out equally. While technically the n54 was sold until 2016 in the Z4 it began being phased out in 2009. ~3 years after it was released.

The 13th rev added in the internal filter and optimized thermal compensating oil. Seems like the one to go with.

Even if Rev1s flowed more who cares? Zero proof. Maxing out the stock DI system is a bad idea in general. If they do flow more, who cares? I can't imagine they added an internal filter and thermal compensating oil to cut costs. Both sound 100% related to reliability not cutting costs.

While cutting costs is a huge thing in the automotive industry. 13 revs is a bit much at more than 1 per year.

Anyways I got my index 12s at $750 from FCP as a precaution and preventative maintenance and could not be happier.

Do what you will. All I see is evidence that the rev 12(technically 13) are the way to go. If there is factual data proving otherwise it would great to see it posted.

Finally, do you really want index ones manufactured in 2006 in 2023? 17 years old soon to be 18.

 

[SlowE93]

The latest index 12s were released in October 2016 fyi. N54s started shipping in 2006. 10 years technically 13 revisions. More than 1 revision a year assuming they were all spread out equally. While technically the n54 was sold until 2016 in the Z4 it began being phased out in 2009. ~3 years after it was released.

The 13th rev added in the internal filter and optimized thermal compensating oil. Seems like the one to go with.

Even if Rev1s flowed more who cares? Zero proof. Maxing out the stock DI system is a bad idea in general. If they do flow more, who cares? I can't imagine they added an internal filter and thermal compensating oil to cut costs. Both sound 100% related to reliability not cutting costs.

While cutting costs is a huge thing in the automotive industry. 13 revs is a bit much at more than 1 per year.

Anyways I got my index 12s at $750 from FCP as a precaution and preventative maintenance and could not be happier.

Do what you will. All I see is evidence that the rev 12(technically 13) are the way to go. If there is factual data proving otherwise it would great to see it posted.

Finally, do you really want index ones manufactured in 2006 in 2023? 17 years old soon to be 18.

What this nigga said...












I mean









I agree and stand behind my associate(s)

 

[ShocknAwe]

Hey guys, which oil is best again?

 

[SLOWESTN54]

Hey guys, which oil is best again?

I use E85 personally, says synthetic on the pump

 

[Torgus]

I just buy whatever dino oil is the cheapest at the big box store and generally run it for 15-20k. I don't run an oil filter anymore as I need more flow to my intercooler. With the ammount of blow by I get on my piston rings I may just stop oil changes all together and just top off. That is what the VQ35 guys do.

 

[SlowE93]

Hey guys, which oil is best again?

Used of course