E85 Lubricity Additives

fmorelli

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Anyone running lubricity additives with higher E contents? I've been doing a bit of digging around and, since I already sold on the additives I run with my diesel BMW and Benz cars, I'm considering this for the N54 fuel system. Attached is a little light reading for anyone curious.

Feedback is most appreciated!

Filippo
 

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  • The_lubricity_of_ethanol-gasoline_fuel_blends.pdf
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Optigrab

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Sep 19, 2018
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Anyone running lubricity additives with higher E contents? I've been doing a bit of digging around and, since I already sold on the additives I run with my diesel BMW and Benz cars, I'm considering this for the N54 fuel system. Attached is a little light reading for anyone curious.

Feedback is most appreciated!

Filippo

you made a mistake with the attachment probably want to take it down
 

fmorelli

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Yeah hosed that up. Updated. Thanks.

Here's some more reading for those that care, from Hot Rod Magazine:

Let’s hit the big problem square on. Aeromotive tells us its testing reveals that commutator wear accelerates because of E85’s reduced lubricity. As parts wear, material ends up trapped in the downstream fuel filter, meaning the filter(s) must be serviced more frequently than is typical for gasoline filters. Plus, Powell says it’s imperative that any paper fuel filter be replaced with stainless filters when using E85. Aeromotive’s testing has shown that alcohol breaks down the glue used to adhere the paper to the metal end caps, which both reduces the filter’s efficiency and causes big problems downstream when this effluvia ends up in the carburetor or fuel injectors. The typical E85 filter recommendation is to use a 100-micron stainless filter before the pump followed by a 40-micron stainless filter on the outlet side. Aeromotive and Holley both recommend using a coarse filter before the fuel pump to reduce inlet restrictions, which improves pump efficiency. Filter size is also important: a larger filter allows longer service intervals due to its larger surface area. Never use those small, disc-type fuel filters because they clog easily and will then overwork the pump until it fails. Large fuel filters will reward you with a trouble-free fuel system that will last for years.

Filippo
 
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fmorelli

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Just passing along stuff as I dig - from MotoIQ, (and note there is a second page):

Power Plus Lubricants makes a top lube that is popular with the Alcohol drag racing crowd.
Currently, in Formula Drift, E98 is one of the most popular fuels with teams that are running forced induction, and in talking to other crew chiefs about our issues, we found that many of them were adding some sort of lubricant to their ethanol to prevent similar problems that they were experiencing.
Unlike gasoline, alcohol has little lubricity and is a powerful solvent. This means that alcohol can be very hard on injectors, pumps, rings, cylinder walls, valve guides, and seats. Anything the alcohol contacts, it can potentially strip of lubricant.
Some crew chiefs were adding two stroke oil and mixing as much as one ounce per gallon and even 3 ounces per gallon on rotaries. Some were complaining of lube separation when using two stroke oil. All said that adding some lube ended their injector and pump issues with ethanol for good. We decided we needed to run some lube as well and researched the best lube to use.

The product they on to refer to is Power Plus Lubricants Power Top Lube (the second page of the article talks about the product).

Filippo
 

Optigrab

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Pulled the MSDS for powerlube

Power Lube® Multi-Purpose Lubricant
Chemical name Common name and synonyms %

distillates (petroleum) hydrotreated light 60 - 70
paraffin oils (petroleum) catalytic dewaxed heavy 10 - 20
paraffin oils (petroleum) catalytic dewaxed light 5 - 10


This is interesting
Effect of gasoline–bioethanol blends on the properties and lubrication characteristics of commercial engine oil
https://pubs.rsc.org/en/content/articlehtml/2017/ra/c7ra00357a#imgfig2
 

hardparker

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I run E30-40 and I've been using Lucas Oil Safeguard Ethanol Fuel Conditioner, because it can't hurt. Once in a while I mix Boostane to go from E35 @ 96 octane to 100 octane to be able to turn the boost up.
 

Optigrab

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I run E30-40 and I've been using Lucas Oil Safeguard Ethanol Fuel Conditioner, because it can't hurt. Once in a while I mix Boostane to go from E35 @ 96 octane to 100 octane to be able to turn the boost up.

Interesting just looked up the MSDS looks like mostly solvents where the other product is mostly oil

Lucas Safeguard Ethanol Fuel Treatment with Stabilizers

Solvent naphtha (petroleum), medium aliphatic 60 - 100
Distillates (petroleum), hydrotreated light 5 - 10
 

langsbr

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I've been using power plus lubricants since my motor was broke in. I run straight e85. I use 2oz per full tank.

Do you use the unscented or one of the fragrances? I think some of the strictly fragrances they offer would be nauseating, lol.
 
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Erichale77

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Do you use the unscented or one of the fragrances? I think some of the strictly fragrances they offer would be nauseating, lol.
Actually I have strawberry (which doesn't smell like anything out the tail pipe) and unscented. The most popular scent is grape. I guess it probably smells the most distinctive. I just hoped the strawberry would mask the corn smell but it doesn't. lol
 
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DCook

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I run the grape in my car, i love the smell. Ive ran it in my foxbody too. Usually get 4 or more tanks out of it. Depending how strong you want it. I guess i enjoy both regular corn and grape corn lol. I hate 93 smell but like diesel.
 

langsbr

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Actually I have strawberry (which doesn't smell like anything out the tail pipe) and unscented. The most popular scent is grape. I guess it probably smells the most distinctive. I just hoped the strawberry would mask the corn smell but it doesn't. lol

I never thought of covering the corn smell, not that I've ever paid attention to the smell out the tailpipe. I just don't like the smell of ethanol in general - smells like dirty gym socks to me. I prefer it over gas though.
 

NoQuarter

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Plus, Powell says it’s imperative that any paper fuel filter be replaced with stainless filters when using E85.

We don't have anything like this in our system right? We have the in-tank that is not paper, then the screen in the HPFP... is that it?
 

langsbr

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Me too!.... I had no idea this was a thing.

Yeah, its nuts. Check their site - they have everything from popcorn, to cherry, to weed. I can't imagine some of them smelling appealing at all, but I guess if you have a car that runs too rich and smells awful, it may improve the WAF some.
 

Optigrab

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Sep 19, 2018
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Yeah, its nuts. Check their site - they have everything from popcorn, to cherry, to weed. I can't imagine some of them smelling appealing at all, but I guess if you have a car that runs too rich and smells awful, it may improve the WAF some.

Will it attract the kids that ate Tide pods to your car and cause them to huff your exhaust?
 

fmorelli

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My car really doesn't see much ethanol in the winter since I really don't drive it, and I'll switch to a clean tank of gasoline for the winter.

But I'm surprised that I've seen little if any conversation about lubricity and the fuel system for BMW's running High ethanol content.

this kind of discussion is common in the BMW diesel world, along with any other diesel world.

Seems like a good idea to run lubricity additive.

Filippo
 

Rob09msport

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I tried asking about fuel lube on e90post but got bunch of sex jokes in response
Long time ago though their are some good posts on it just don't bring it up anywhere else now will be troll city.
I am curious If e85 fuel dilution is alot more dangerous then dino fuel?