Chasing Higher Power

Maroon_e90

Specialist
Sep 30, 2021
57
11
0
23
Northwest Indiana
Ride
2009 335i - xdrive 6MT
I wanted to see if I can improve my self-tuning anywhere.

I am pursuing approx 560 wheel and I cant seem to break 500. I know vdyno is not "accurate" but I use the same flat freshly paved road in the same direction with temperatures pretty similar. If I was able to make a positive or negative change I would be able to track it. Anytime I add more boost or Adjust vanos I lose power. I will say I am trying to push the limits of 93 octane fueling with about 1 gallon of e85.

Ive actually had to decrease intake vanos quite a large amount to increase my power which is different considering I expected an increase in intake would improve top end power.

Can anyone here offer suggestions on how to achieve that with vanos changes/boost changes?
I am in the process of adjusting my port injection so fuel trims are off quite a bit.

Below are my best performance vanos.
as well a vdyno of what happens when I try to increase boost.
Ive also included logs and my latest tune.

Any help would be greatly appreciated.



Vanos.png

vdyno.jpg
 

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JohnDaviz

Lieutenant
Jan 6, 2019
657
391
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335i E92 DCT
You are running really low timing. Try stock Vanos and increase your timing.

I also don´t know what is going on with your PI but your STFT bank 1 + 2 are really way off between each other.
 

MR-KRAKA

Private
May 23, 2020
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If you’re not going to utilize a higher e85 content go with direct port meth instead. You can add a small nozzle in the charge pipe as well for iat’s. That should give you all you need.
 
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Maroon_e90

Specialist
Sep 30, 2021
57
11
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23
Northwest Indiana
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2009 335i - xdrive 6MT
I am utilizing the bung on my Charge pipe for injection with fuel, its tee’d off my low-pressure fuel pressure sensor, I have the injector activate at 20 psi boost. Regardless the fuel is being vaporized which is why IAT's are in the 60's and have the large drop when boost hits. I am not limited to 93 or anything Like that I just want to know how they were able to hit 568 whp from 93 octane on the VTT gc turbos at 4.5* of timing. I was wondering if maybe my turbos are poor flowing on the exhaust side, or if maybe there’s a vanos secret I cannot seem to find. My car starts to lose torque badly at 6000+ RPM even if boost is constant. Is there any way to decrease the torque drop off with vanos?
 

MR-KRAKA

Private
May 23, 2020
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Something is not right in your setup of you are on GC turbos and running 90% wgdc to get 25psi
 

Maroon_e90

Specialist
Sep 30, 2021
57
11
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23
Northwest Indiana
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2009 335i - xdrive 6MT
I am running eBay 17t's so perhaps that is the real only issue here... I just find it weird that my intake vanos is so low for power. Could this be indicative of timing issues? I have an aftermarket flywheel and I could not line up my cams to the flywheel hole So I left them exactly as they were when I replaced the cam trays. Could they have potentially slipped and that’s causing vanos to be so low for compensation?
 

General.Massacre

Corporal
May 14, 2018
219
56
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2009 E92 335i DCT
If you’re not going to utilize a higher e85 content go with direct port meth instead. You can add a small nozzle in the charge pipe as well for iat’s. That should give you all you need.
Sorry to hijack thread, but can you use (for example) a E40 stated OTS map on MHD (V5 E40) with only Port Meth as the additonal Octane? would it be sufficient enough to increase the octane via the Port Meth to take advantage of the more aggressive fueling and timing?

I am running eBay 17t's so perhaps that is the real only issue here... I just find it weird that my intake vanos is so low for power. Could this be indicative of timing issues? I have an aftermarket flywheel and I could not line up my cams to the flywheel hole So I left them exactly as they were when I replaced the cam trays. Could they have potentially slipped and that’s causing vanos to be so low for compensation?
To be honest the Chinese 17T turbos are fine, and have more than proven themselves over the years with a multitude of owners running them.
Your comment about the Cams and Flywheel is suspect, and id have that checked and confirmed asap as that could be a problem if indeed something has slipped. better safe than sorry mate.
 

Maroon_e90

Specialist
Sep 30, 2021
57
11
0
23
Northwest Indiana
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2009 335i - xdrive 6MT
So I wasnt sure how to do that without a flywheel pin, I put an extension in the motor and it was indeed at tdc but im not sure about the dwell time at tdc I guess I will have to check that better. Is vanos being off a tell tale sign?

Also I would not rely on Meth to increase your octane, the e40 map is running 6 plus more degrees of timing. It would probably result in much more corrections.
 

MR-KRAKA

Private
May 23, 2020
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You are definitely pushing the limits of 17T’s on pump gas you really can’t compare them to GC on the exhaust side especially. You should be in the 65-70% wgdc range with those. Do a boost leak test and check your vacuum lines/boost solenoids.

I still recommend meth. You’re also leaving a lot on the table if E85 is readily available near you (not to mention the price of premium 93 currently) Spray and pray 93 octane in the charge pipe at LPFP pressures is not a great strategy for iat suppression.

From that log I wouldn’t be too concerned with the physical cam timing. Other than the trim variance (most likely from CP injection) and wgdc it seems OK.
 

Maroon_e90

Specialist
Sep 30, 2021
57
11
0
23
Northwest Indiana
Ride
2009 335i - xdrive 6MT
Alright from the sounds of it I will just assume I am at the limit of 93 for these turbos and probably start making plans to either verify physical cam timing and/or start using e85 for better timing
 

SLOWESTN54

Lieutenant
Feb 9, 2021
738
477
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22
B.C. Canada
Ride
2007 E92 335i / 2008 E60 535i
Alright from the sounds of it I will just assume I am at the limit of 93 for these turbos and probably start making plans to either verify physical cam timing and/or start using e85 for better timing
I agree with what @MR-KRAKA said. I'd check for boost leaks, at 27psi my daw's were at 68% duty cycle. It wont make a difference in your current situation but if it is a boost leak it'll increase the longevity of your turbos.
 

MR-KRAKA

Private
May 23, 2020
28
15
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Sorry to hijack thread, but can you use (for example) a E40 stated OTS map on MHD (V5 E40) with only Port Meth as the additonal Octane? would it be sufficient enough to increase the octane via the Port Meth to take advantage of the more aggressive fueling and timing?


To be honest the Chinese 17T turbos are fine, and have more than proven themselves over the years with a multitude of owners running them.
Your comment about the Cams and Flywheel is suspect, and id have that checked and confirmed asap as that could be a problem if indeed something has slipped. better safe than sorry mate.
I wouldn’t recommend running any significant meth volume on anything other than a custom tune or you could go the JB4/BEF route with it. I would say however a smallish nozzle in the charge pipe for IAT suppression purposes only would be fine on top of most maps at a 50/50 mix. Once you start relying on it for fueling it get sketchy there.
 

Maroon_e90

Specialist
Sep 30, 2021
57
11
0
23
Northwest Indiana
Ride
2009 335i - xdrive 6MT
Ive done some research and the Vanos settings I have used have increased my WGDC and I had thought that was a good thing IE more wgdc more air more power. However in reality I have increased the valve overlap on my engine which means im just forcing boost out the exhaust. I am going to use different vanos settings and see how my power holds up
 

Maroon_e90

Specialist
Sep 30, 2021
57
11
0
23
Northwest Indiana
Ride
2009 335i - xdrive 6MT
I changed my Vanos and that seemed to help a little bit, but we have bigger problems. It seems my ebay choo-choos have finally given up as I did this last pull and saw a ton of white smoke out the back. I have ordered a single turbo kit and that will be installed this coming season.

 
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