4N Performance Twin Scroll short runner bottom mount ST kit

4N Motorsport

Specialist
Dec 11, 2017
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1947 Chevrolet 4bt 70psi 890tq
Quick update. Decided to do a little bit of exhaust work and remove the secondary cats and resonator. It’s a stock e90 exhaust. I Just have an initial 17 PSI tune at the moment. Boost starts to climb at 2500rpm it hits 17 psi at 3200rpm 4th gear pull. Jb4 is controlling boost perfectly. I am currently running a GEN one 6266 turbo. Gonna order a gen 2 6466 for further testing. Still haven’t done anything with VVT.
 

doublespaces

General of the Army
Oct 18, 2016
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2009 E93 335i
Quick update. Decided to do a little bit of exhaust work and remove the secondary cats and resonator. It’s a stock e90 exhaust. I Just have an initial 17 PSI tune at the moment. Boost starts to climb at 2500rpm it hits 17 psi at 3200rpm 4th gear pull. Jb4 is controlling boost perfectly. I am currently running a GEN one 6266 turbo. Gonna order a gen 2 6466 for further testing. Still haven’t done anything with VVT.
Personally, I would not get a 6466. If you do that, you are getting away from what people hope this kit can provide, which is really good spool at a decent price. Stick with a 6266 Gen2 BB or smaller initially. Trying to be a log manifold making big power is a midget trying to be tall, stick to your strengths at first. We want to see spool for daily driving, the rest of the powerband has been covered multiple times over by other fabricators.
 

TEC

Specialist
Jun 15, 2017
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335i
Personally, I would not get a 6466. If you do that, you are getting away from what people hope this kit can provide, which is really good spool at a decent price. Stick with a 6266 Gen2 BB or smaller initially. Trying to be a log manifold making big power is a midget trying to be tall, stick to your strengths at first. We want to see spool for daily driving, the rest of the powerband has been covered multiple times over by other fabricators.

You can always change the turbos to whatever the user wants...small or large. As long as it has the t4 divided flange and a way to connect the downpipe to larger or smaller turbos he should be good.
IMHO, the bigger issues are:
1. Is everything properly welded and will it last
2. Does it fit properly without a lot of customizing on the users end (I personally hate the idea of having to relocate a bunch of stuff)
3. Is the price point better than the competitors for something just as good
4. Are the component locations well thought out
5. Heat management
6. Does it work and work extremely well
 

4N Motorsport

Specialist
Dec 11, 2017
61
84
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California
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1947 Chevrolet 4bt 70psi 890tq
You can always change the turbos to whatever the user wants...small or large. As long as it has the t4 divided flange and a way to connect the downpipe to larger or smaller turbos he should be good.
IMHO, the bigger issues are:
1. Is everything properly welded and will it last
2. Does it fit properly without a lot of customizing on the users end (I personally hate the idea of having to relocate a bunch of stuff)
3. Is the price point better than the competitors for something just as good
4. Are the component locations well thought out
5. Heat management
6. Does it work and work extremely well

The phase 2 manifold will have a different welding process. it will be made of 321 stainless steel back purged. The first design was put together with mild steel Weld Els extremely quick just for testing purposes. Also it will have O2 sensor heat sinks with a Venturi so the heat or moisture will not fry them. they will also be mounted in a vertical 9 o clock position. The wastegates will be moved slightly to allow clearance for the O2 sensors and they will be wrapped in a heat sheething to protect 02 wiring. I will have it on the Dyno in early Jan. Right now I’m slowly adding boost and tuning at the moment. I can tell you 17psi feels insane. Much different kind of power compared to upgraded twins. There are no modifications required for this setup other than coolant tank relocation.
 

doublespaces

General of the Army
Oct 18, 2016
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There are no modifications required for this setup other than coolant tank relocation.

The space is tight around the water pump/vacuum canister area, I assume this relocation is because your outlet pipe goes over the top? My bottom mount manages to fit with the tank in place:
dcK9nkb.png
 

4N Motorsport

Specialist
Dec 11, 2017
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California
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1947 Chevrolet 4bt 70psi 890tq
The space is tight around the water pump/vacuum canister area, I assume this relocation is because your outlet pipe goes over the top? My bottom mount manages to fit with the tank in place:
dcK9nkb.png
Are you running the 4 inch ported compressor cover? On my setup you can put a small filter on the turbo itself and get away with running the coolant tank. It’s just takes a few minutes to remove the charge pipe and clean the filter I prefer having the tank relocated. I like how your setup is done though. with my setup I did not want a sharp 90 right off the compressor housing so I brought the hot side charge pipe straight out and over the inlet.
 

doublespaces

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Oct 18, 2016
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Are you running the 4 inch ported compressor cover? On my setup you can put a small filter on the turbo itself and get away with running the coolant tank. It’s just takes a few minutes to remove the charge pipe and clean the filter I prefer having the tank relocated. I like how your setup is done though. with my setup I did not want a sharp 90 right off the compressor housing so I brought the hot side charge pipe straight out and over the inlet.
Its a 6266 Gen2 BB, 4 in 2.5 out
 

08_335i

Sergeant
Nov 3, 2016
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217
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28
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2008 ST 335i
You can always change the turbos to whatever the user wants...small or large. As long as it has the t4 divided flange and a way to connect the downpipe to larger or smaller turbos he should be good.
IMHO, the bigger issues are:
1. Is everything properly welded and will it last
2. Does it fit properly without a lot of customizing on the users end (I personally hate the idea of having to relocate a bunch of stuff)
3. Is the price point better than the competitors for something just as good
4. Are the component locations well thought out
5. Heat management
6. Does it work and work extremely well
You're not seeing his point. he point of a log style short runner manifold is not top end high power performance. It's low end, spool performance. If anyone buys this kit to break the HP record, or even hit what's considered high hp on this platform they're gonna be very, very disappointed. So throwing a 6466 on this setup, is not ideal. I think a 5862 gen 2 would fit this setup perfect.
 
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Aaron

Lieutenant
Nov 3, 2016
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Colorado
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Silver 2013 335is 6MT
You're not seeing his point. he point of a log style short runner manifold is not top end high power performance. It's low end, spool performance. If anyone buys this kit to break the HP record, or even hit what's considered high hp on this platform they're gonna be very, very disappointed.

That isn't the point of a short runner manifold. The point of a short runner manifold type is to minimize cost, ease of install, packaging constraints, and reliability/durability.

In fact, the performance difference between a manifold and an equal length medium tube header on a turbo car is largely negligible. Back when I was looking at testing and such on a ~500whp Honda it picked up only 20whp with the equal length header, and lost about 300rpm worth of spool. So ya a "free" 40whp on our cars is great, but you give up spool time and transient response, they will eventually cost more, and they'll be less reliable. And all that is considering tune equal length tubes, which far as I know isn't offered on our platform.
 

TEC

Specialist
Jun 15, 2017
81
47
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335i
You're not seeing his point. he point of a log style short runner manifold is not top end high power performance. It's low end, spool performance. If anyone buys this kit to break the HP record, or even hit what's considered high hp on this platform they're gonna be very, very disappointed. So throwing a 6466 on this setup, is not ideal. I think a 5862 gen 2 would fit this setup perfect.

Aaron beat me to the punch.
The manifold doesnt dictate the amount of power...the turbo does that. You aren't going to loose a heck of a lot of hp over an equal length or ram horn design.
 
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doublespaces

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Oct 18, 2016
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Aaron beat me to the punch.
The manifold doesnt dictate the amount of power...the turbo does that. You aren't going to loose a heck of a lot of hp over an equal length or ram horn design.
I think we are all saying the same thing, no? Just seems like we are emphasizing different benefits of the short manifolds.
 

TEC

Specialist
Jun 15, 2017
81
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335i
I think we are all saying the same thing, no? Just seems like we are emphasizing different benefits of the short manifolds.

Possibly. All I'm saying is is that he shouldn't get hung up on the size of the turbo unless its to deal with large compressor cover fitment or something like that.
 

doublespaces

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Oct 18, 2016
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He is just saying there is no point putting huge turbo on this manifold and I agree. Regardless of how much power it's going to ultimately make, short runner manifolds excel at spool. So sticking with a turbo that spools well would highlight the strengths of this kit. Putting a fat turbo on here and trying to set a power record would just have mediocre results at best and the kit would seem meh
 
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08_335i

Sergeant
Nov 3, 2016
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2008 ST 335i
He is just saying there is no point putting huge turbo on this manifold and I agree. Regardless of how much power it's going to ultimately make, short runner manifolds excel at spool. So sticking with a turbo that spools well would highlight the strengths of this kit. Putting a fat turbo on here and trying to set a power record would just have mediocre results at best and the kit would seem meh
Reading outside the lines, it's a rarity anymore.
 

Cheezy

Lieutenant
Nov 7, 2016
610
223
0
Toledo Ohio
Do you think once you finalize your design and get comfortable with producing them in numbers, the price will go down in general due to less labor time? Not any huge amount, maybe just $200, but idk because im not in your business and im not doing any business models for it. My thoughts are founded on base price of these cars today. Theyre cheap, and they keep getting cheaper. The markets being flooded with single kits, and everyones gonna need to stay competitive.