4N Performance Twin Scroll short runner bottom mount ST kit

doublespaces

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Oct 18, 2016
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I saw this pop up, can't see everything but it looks like a pretty simple log style short runner manifold. In my personal opinion, I think that these short runner manifolds will actually become the kit of choice for most people. I see far too many folks with 900-1000hp turbos making 750.

4N Performance is pleased to announce our first single turbo kit for the n54 platform. This kit is a twin scroll short runner bottom mount manifold designed for quick spool up. It was designed to easily remove the wastegates and 02 sensors for future maintenance in mind. The price for the complete kit will be $4500 with a 6266 precision turbo. We will have Dyno numbers and logs posted up soon!

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doublespaces

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I can't help but think that compressor outlet will get a bit hot, but there really isn't much space down there for a twin scroll kit. I wonder if there are any 'modifications' you need to make to fit this thing.
 
Oct 27, 2016
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Turbo and wastegates~$2k assuming Gen2
That manifold $400
Downpipe $150
Dump tubes$100
Aluminum tubes for filter and CP $100
Filter $50

I'd never pay $4500 for that, sorry.
 

doublespaces

General of the Army
Oct 18, 2016
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2009 E93 335i
Turbo and wastegates~$2k assuming Gen2
That manifold $400
Downpipe $150
Dump tubes$100
Aluminum tubes for filter and CP $100
Filter $50

I'd never pay $4500 for that, sorry.
What would you call a fair price given the need to stay in business?
 
Oct 27, 2016
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What would you call a fair price given the need to stay in business?

He is choosing the wrong platform if he wants to stay in business. Just looking at the welds, it's a beginner at best. That kit is at most a $3500 kit. Add another $500 or so on the price he's asking and you can get the ACF bottom mount kit on group buy.
 

dyezak

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If they took this weld-els manifold and did a single external split gate setup like ACF and CES/Steed are both doing they would simplify things a lot and save money on component cost. Then they could move the o2 sensors up top where condensation won't shatter the porcelain sensing elements on a warm restart, and maybe add in some cheap $40 o2 sensor heat sinks.

Those minor changes and it would be a really interesting kit. As is it is you're looking at a maintenance nightmare even if you went with ADV sensors, that would end up costing a LOT in the long run for o2 replacements. This is a known weakness in wideband O2 sensors. Quality kits like Motiv, AD-E, ACF, Doc Race all take this into account. This is sorely lacking in this department.

http://www.bosch-motorsport.com/med...nsor_LSU_42_Datasheet_51_en_2779111435pdf.pdf
http://www.bosch-motorsport.com/med...nsor_LSU_49_Datasheet_51_en_2779147659pdf.pdf

  • The lambda sensor should be installed at point which permits the measurement of a representative exhaust-gas mixture, which does not exceed the maximum permissible temperature. Install at a point where the gas is as hot as possible. Passed
  • Observe the maximum permissible temperature. FAILED
  • As far as possible install the sensor vertically (wire upwards). FAILED
  • The sensor is not to be fitted near to the exhaust pipe outlet, so that the influence of the outside air can be ruled out. Passed
  • The exhaust-gas passage opposite the sensor must be free of leaks in order to avoid the effects of leak-air. Passed
  • Protect the sensor against condensation water. FAILED


http://www.nzefi.com/bosch-lsu-wide...l-often-aftermarket-performance-applications/

Thermal shock – a leading cause of failure

In the warm-up phase at engine start, the sensor is operated with reduced heater power..……. The heater power must only be increased when the presence of condensed water in the exhaust gas system can be ruled out.”
The sensor ceramic element is heated up quickly after heater start. Prior to heating up the ceramic element, it must be guaranteed that there is no condensed water present. This could damage the hot ceramic element.”
Never switch on sensor heating or the control unit before engine start.”
….. the sensor installation location design must be selected in a way to minimize, or eliminate, condensed water on the exhaust gas side from contacting the sensor. If this is not possible by design measures, the start of the sensor heater must be delayed until demonstrably no more condensation water appears.”


http://blog.innovatemotorsports.com/important-tips-to-get-the-maximum-life-out-of-your-o2-sensor

Condensation buildup can destroy a sensor very quickly, so mounting the sensor between 9 o’clock and 3 o’clock protects it from water build-up at the bottom of the exhaust pipe. If there is sufficient space between the top of the exhaust pipe and floorboard, mounting the sensor at 12 o’clock is ideal.
 

doublespaces

General of the Army
Oct 18, 2016
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He is choosing the wrong platform if he wants to stay in business. Just looking at the welds, it's a beginner at best. That kit is at most a $3500 kit. Add another $500 or so on the price he's asking and you can get the ACF bottom mount kit on group buy.

You're going to have a lot of people wondering why they are paying more than 3k to go single now
 
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4N Motorsport

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Dec 11, 2017
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Hey folks! Thanks for the info on the 02 sensors. I will see how it works and probably incorporate a spacer to remove the 02 from the heat. just know that this is a test manifold that was thrown together very quickly. The majority of the stuff you see there I had laying around my garage. I come from the diesel world of Performance. Always wanted to jump into building a single kit for the n54. This kit is made entirely of mild steel sch40 Weld Els. This will not be the final construction material. I will be using backpurged 321 stainless on the kits for sale. Also the downpipe pictured is galvanized it was tricky to weld to the stainless v band adapter I used. If you have anymore questions feel free I will be testing this setup this weekend it is already installed in the test car. No modifications necessary! stock right side motor mount and bracket are still used.
 

[email protected]

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Oct 19, 2016
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Hey folks! Thanks for the info on the 02 sensors. I will see how it works and probably incorporate a spacer to remove the 02 from the heat. just know that this is a test manifold that was thrown together very quickly. The majority of the stuff you see there I had laying around my garage. I come from the diesel world of Performance. Always wanted to jump into building a single kit for the n54. This kit is made entirely of mild steel sch40 Weld Els. This will not be the final construction material. I will be using backpurged 321 stainless on the kits for sale. Also the downpipe pictured is galvanized it was tricky to weld to the stainless v band adapter I used. If you have anymore questions feel free I will be testing this setup this weekend it is already installed in the test car. No modifications necessary! stock right side motor mount and bracket are still used.
you know we love pictures so just come back with more haha