08 335xi DME Relay location

ov3rrrun

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Mar 26, 2020
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Hello,

I currently have a some weird electrical issue, both MHD and JB4 will not connect to the DME. Last code checked was 2ACB and 2ACC codes related to the DME relay input signal and switch delay. I am trying to locate where the DME relay is, some resources says its a blue relay in the DME box but I don't have the relay. Others say is the black relay in the fuse box on the right side, which I've replaced. Lastly, the newtis says its located above the black relay which looks like its not removable? Can anyone confirm?

rsz_20200325_201144.jpg
 

ov3rrrun

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Mar 26, 2020
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I did run through all the fuses a couple times and didn't find anything blown. All things seems to point to the relay that is soldered on or the DME. Originally, my water pump failed and overheated the car. The coolant from the coolant tank got all into the ECM box and blew my JB4 board. Now I'm back to stock flash and JB4 removed but still stuck with those two codes. Car will crank but no start.
 

doublespaces

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Oct 18, 2016
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2009 E93 335i
I did run through all the fuses a couple times and didn't find anything blown. All things seems to point to the relay that is soldered on or the DME. Originally, my water pump failed and overheated the car. The coolant from the coolant tank got all into the ECM box and blew my JB4 board. Now I'm back to stock flash and JB4 removed but still stuck with those two codes. Car will crank but no start.

Do you get codes for the vanos or camshaft sensors? check to see if you get voltage at those sensors as I think that relay powers them. The odd thing is that My car started even though the fuse for that relay was blown.

If you truly believe its the relay, you have to tear the glove box apart, its on the back of the fusebox somewhere.
 

doublespaces

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Oct 18, 2016
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2009 E93 335i
This is what it looks like thanks to someone who helped me on FB:
1585372105064.png


This is where it goes:
1585372120816.png


And this is where it would have been on the actual board:
1585372153381.png


Basically you'll get a jumping idle, throttle doesn't respond and in my case you get a load of other codes. But you're supposed to ignore them until this is fixed because it isn't supplying power correctly or at all which is why all those other codes appear.
 

ov3rrrun

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Mar 26, 2020
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The problem with mine is that I get a CRANK and NO START. I'm currently working with a member from BimmerFest who is extremely resourceful, he is walking me through testing the relay either by physically testing with a multimeter or within INPA itself. I'll continue to update this thread as well since I'm sure someone will eventually find this information helpful.

Just a snipet of the information I'm getting from the guy...

To restate the observations from the prior post:
1) It appears that the DME Relay is NOT being activated
2) If DME is NOT activated, the dashboard lights as normal when turning ignition ON, Radio, Blower, Wipers, Windows, Seats, and Starter all work as normal, BUT
3) The Engine will NOT fire, as the Sensors (Crankshaft & Camshaft) that time the DME pulse of Spark & Injectors are NOT powered, and the DME itself cannot function. Also, the LP Fuel Pump does NOT run. It still has Power Supply to the DME sufficient to have a Scan Tool connect & read Memory.

So the two recurring codes indicate, consistent with the symptoms you describe, that your DME Relay (K6300 on the TIS schematic linked in the prior thread, which happens to be the correct Schematic for your 2008 335xi with N54) is NOT being activated to Supply Power to general DME functions, and to power the Sensors mentioned above.

Proper Diagnostics would suggest that you use a Multimeter (OR a test light would also work) to CONFIRM that the DME Relay is NOT being activated. Here are wiring diagrams, Installation Locations, and Connector Views to help you determine WHAT is NOT getting Power Supply (12V+ on multimeter or test light).

Here is the wiring diagram that shows how the DME is always powered by the 10 Amp fuse F4. I would begin by using a multimeter or test light to confirm power at ONE of the two F4 sockets with the fuse removed. That is Battery power (NOTE the "30" above the fuse symbol indicating "Terminal 30" or Battery [unswitched] power).
https://www.newtis.info/tisv2/a/en/e...supply/vMifIQL

F4 ONLY supplies control system power, and NOT power for other DME functions. NOTE that the DME "turns itself on" in that the Red/Gray wire from Pin #13 of Connector X60005 of the DME provides a ground signal to the K6300 DME Relay electromagnet. NOTE that Red/Gray wire passes through Pin #5 of Connector X60551 on the way from the DME to the Relay. That Connector X60551 is in the E-box as shown below, and that is the easiest location to test, particularly since you have the E-box open.

The 12V+ side of the relay electromagnet coil, and the other side of the contacts are BOTH ALWAYS powered by Battery power, or "Terminal 30", also known as Kl.30 (Klemmen is German word for Terminal), so if you apply a ground to that Red/Gray wire, the relay should "CLICK" if it still works, and the engine should fire when the Starter cranks the engine. Here is a more complicated schematic of the Junction Box, which shows ALL of the relays & fuses. What is important here for YOUR understanding is Kl.30 (Terminal 30 or Battery Power), Kl.87 (Terminal 87 powered by operation of K6300 DME Relay, and K6300 itself, and WHY its operation is important.
https://www.newtis.info/tisv2/a/en/e...ule/1VnXpW4emV

Even if you don't have a multimeter or test light to check for 12V+ (in reference to Chassis Ground), you can STILL do a test to determine if the K6300 DME Relay works. What you have to do is apply a ground (any wire or conductor contacting good chassis ground) to the Red/Gray wire. There are several ways you can do that. The simplest is to locate the Red/Gray wire and stick a pin in it (penetrate the insulation and contact the wire inside), and then ground the pin. If you hear the relay click (located INSIDE the JB just above the Terminal 30g relay you replaced), then you have found the CAUSE of your problem (but you STILL have to locate the reason for NO ground signal & correct it). A corroded Connector Pin at the DME, at the JB, OR at X60551 itself, are the most likely causes if the Relay clicks when ground applied.

A more elegant way to ground the Red/Gray wire is to locate that wire inside the E-box, at Pin #5 of Connector X60551. Here is the TIS Installation Location for those two connectors, each at rear of E-box:
https://www.newtis.info/tisv2/a/en/e...xi-lim/S7vd3wc
Since you got coolant in the E-box, that Connector, or moisture in the DME itself, are the most likely causes of your issue.

I would suggest reviewing the above so that you understand how to Activate/test the relay and then try that & let us know what you find. So you can understand WHY operation of that relay is necessary, here are circuits for Fuse 39 (Ignition coils), Fuse 37 (Camshaft Sensors), and Fuse 11 (Crankshaft Sensor), ALL of which are powered from Terminal 87, powered by the DME Relay (K6300):
https://www.newtis.info/tisv2/a/en/e...nition/uuem8HV
https://www.newtis.info/tisv2/a/en/e...4-fuse/i1ukJnB
https://www.newtis.info/tisv2/a/en/e...1-fuse/iE4uiI1

I'm NOT familiar with ProTool, but if it can do most of the things INPA can do, you MAY be able to quickly determine if Terminal 87 (KL.87) is active or not when ignition is ON, just by connecting to the DME (MSD80 for your N54) and reading the voltage that way.

INPA is "Factory Level" software developed by the German-speaking guys who designed & built our BMW's, so one would expect that if they found a way to display or control component data/function, ProTool COULD be designed to do the same. It's just a matter of WHAT particular functions BimmerGeeks has developed to date.

With INPA, one can see KL.87 voltage displayed on a Status screen, as shown in the first bar graph on the top left of the 1st attached jpg. OR one can turn KL.87 on/off by activating or deactivating the DME Main Relay, as shown in the 2nd attached jpg. I have translated (in red) the pertinent parts of the German "Labeling" in those two screens. INPA allows a knowledgeable user to quickly conduct MANY tests that would require one to identify and access a particular connector, and "Backprobe" a connector or otherwise use a multimeter to measure voltage, continuity, resistance, etc. You can do all this just by connecting the laptop to the OBD II Socket and seeing the data, and/or controlling the component, on your computer screen. You just have to know what data can be viewed, and what screen to use to view it, or to control a component.

Keep in mind that the DME supplies a ground signal to the DME Relay to complete the Relay's electromagnet coil circuit and close the relay contacts. The reason it is called "Terminal 87" is that Terminal or Pin #87 of a standard automotive relay is the Power Supply Terminal when the relay contacts are CLOSED, and Terminal 30 of that relay is Battery Power, to which Terminal 87 is connected when the contacts close.

I don't know WHAT Documentation, instructions, or List of Functions ProTool has, or what support BimmerGeeks provides. I would encourage you (and anyone using ProTool) to share such information. ANY decent Scan Tool, or Diagnostic Software, is capable of doing a LOT more than just reading Fault Codes. It should also have the capability to (1) Read Parameters or input values such as Sensor signals or various voltage values, AND (2) Allow Activation of motors, valves, relays, etc.

The DME can only activate the DME Relay IF connections are intact between Pin #13 of Connector X60005 and the Relay coil, AND the DME is operational. Please let us know WHAT you are able to determine ProTool can do to (1) display Terminal 87 Voltage, and/or (2) Activate the DME Relay to power Terminal 87.

Please let us know what you find,
George
 

Romex87

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Apr 5, 2020
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Following since we are having identical probs. great read so far, i have a few things I will try tomorrow, based on your research so far.
 

ov3rrrun

New Member
Mar 26, 2020
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Update:
So it looks like some wiring logic backwards which I have this figured out by tracing the physical wires. I was able to find continuity for the wire to test the DME relay!

1. X60005 female connector Pin #13 goes to the X60551 FEMALE connector Pin #5 which is also WHITE/GREY. I was testing the male side of the X60551 connector thinking that wire never leaves the E-Box but that is not correct. The WHITE/GREY wire travels out of the E-BOX and comes back into the FEMALE connector of the X60551.

2. The WHITE/GREY wire continues on the male side of the X60005 connector Pin #5 and it actually loops into the X6011 male connector at Pin #5 then from there it changes wiring color to RED/GREY!! Sneaky! I've verified it by testing continuity from X60005 pin 13 to X6011 Pin #5 on the male side, just before it switches to RED/GREY.

3. I applied a ground wire from the chassis (strut tower bolt) to PIN #1 of X6011, RED/GREY wire. Immediately, I heard an audible click from the X11010, DME relay in the JB.

4. I measured one of the F37 sockets and got a 10.93v, not the 12v we were looking for but my battery has been uncharged for some time now, measuring at the battery netted me around ~11.5v

5. In INPA, I connected to the LIVE DATA/MWB1 to measure KL.87, it did show that 10.93v with the ground wire in placed. This verifies the relay is functional.

6. I attempted to activate the relay in INPA but it was not responsive. The DME is not activating the relay.

7. I attempted to start the car after reconnecting all of the various connectors and leaving the ground jumper cable in place. The remains CRANK but NO START.
And in doing so I also heard a pop inside the DME. I opened the lid of the DME and found one of the pin looked scorched

At this point, I am pretty confident that the DME is bad and since it still able to communicate to diagnostic tools, I have a coder who is going to clone the DME. The relay, wiring and fuses all checked out good. Hopefully, this fixes it!
 
Last edited:
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ov3rrrun

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Mar 26, 2020
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It looks like a PIN from the X60007 side. the wiring is fine. Ultimately, I think my DME/Connectors may have been exposed to coolant, my car overheated and causing coolant to spray in the engine bay, how it got thru 2 covers and into the E-Box, I have no idea. Plus my car ran fine for a day after the water pump replacement. Fingers crossed that replacing the DME is the last of this drawn out issue.
 

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Romex87

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Apr 5, 2020
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(im not trying to hijack your thread delete if need be) Im having trouble finding a few resources to follow, i cannot locate a proper fuse diagram with fuses labeled. also my dme relay appears to be built into my glove box fuse panel. is this correct. ? (car is a 09/335i last 7 vin p182118)
 

ov3rrrun

New Member
Mar 26, 2020
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(im not trying to hijack your thread delete if need be) Im having trouble finding a few resources to follow, i cannot locate a proper fuse diagram with fuses labeled. also my dme relay appears to be built into my glove box fuse panel. is this correct. ? (car is a 09/335i last 7 vin p182118)

Can you take a picture of your E-Box and JB? If you don't have a blue relay in the E-box, you mostly likely have the same setup as mine which the relay IS soldered to the back side of the JB and you won't be able to access it. The Master Relay is the white unit behind the vent in the upper right corner, right above the BLACK relay. Here's what mine looks like:
20200325_201144.jpg


20200326_161326.jpg


Once you confirm your setup, I can help as best as I can.
 
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ov3rrrun

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Mar 26, 2020
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yes sir, that is exactly what my set up looks like, great looks like im going to have to replace the box :/
Which box are you referring to replacing? Did you already test the DME relay? There was a guy that had the same issue who replaced the JB and it didn't fix the issue. Ultimately, he had to replace the DME like me.

I would tried what I stated above to test the relay functionality first before throwing parts at it.
 

Djeli

New Member
Jan 29, 2022
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This is what it looks like thanks to someone who helped me on FB:
View attachment 36427

This is where it goes:
View attachment 36428

And this is where it would have been on the actual board:
View attachment 36429

Basically you'll get a jumping idle, throttle doesn't respond and in my case you get a load of other codes. But you're supposed to ignore them until this is fixed because it isn't supplying power correctly or at all which is why all those other codes appear.
Hi all
Im having the same issue, n54 2007 crank no start with the same fusebox and ebox layout. Happened last week. Read all the inputs above, is that mean dme need to ne changed? Somebody, pls help

Thanks