XHP DCT - Experience Thread

aus335iguy

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Nov 18, 2017
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Good write up, but honestly you need to chill out a little and show a little more patience to the ppl that actually don’t fully understand. Especially the tuning element. I didn’t realise if you don’t understand something and ask a question or make a statement, whether it right or wrong, that is deemed stupid or pointless in your eyes, you’re either a retard or an idiot and that your social media should be deleted. That’s dramatic and a “I cannot deal” kind of attitude.
We share the same passion so instead of ranting about how retarded people are that don’t get it, you offer your knowledge to help ppl understand.
I’ll be watching this thread to help me, apart from line pressure which I get all the other offerings I need to do my homework on.

Instead of trying to argue back, let’s move forward and help one and other out, as you will get new ppl to this platform that won’t have a clue about anything.
I see both sides of the story here. I too got frustrated with social media and now only interact here as a result. Its easier to share links and docs so it suits me

d like to I think I have a lot of patience for people ( i think i am one after all) but it is hard. Many people want to be spoon fed, want the result but dont want the effort. It can be frustrating and I think that's what John was expressing. I wouldn't take it personally either mate. Im sure you arent the type hes commented on :)
 
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JohnDaviz

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Jan 6, 2019
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People please. Thank you for defending me and also insulting me in the first place. Also there are some other comments that actually are only spam.

Again. Please only contribute experience to this thread and do not fill it with chitchat.

Thank you in advance and please do not comment my comment. Let us stay focused on real world experience comments that help ppl to understand the software.
 
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NoGuru

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Jan 9, 2018
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There’s two threads in this forum asking the same exact question and I’ve replied to both of those as well. M3 and 1M DSC callibration can be flashed on a non M car. Suggest if you’re a 3rr go M3 but you’ll need CIC or to do some wiring from your DSC button directly to the DSC to operate it. Otherwise change the “pl” parameter in the CIC and you can do it via a menu

I don't have CIC so I guess I would have to re wire? What would "Calibrating" it do?
I am guessing it would allow maximum HP and TQ with little to no wheel slip?
 

JohnDaviz

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I don't have CIC so I guess I would have to re wire? What would "Calibrating" it do?
I am guessing it would allow maximum HP and TQ with little to no wheel slip?

please make your own thread. you are spamming here.
 
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NoGuru

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Jan 9, 2018
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My experience with xHP is some people that have it and want to know about it are just plain douche bags. Not all, but some.

Is that better?

I just got the updated app so I will test later but I will not be posting in this thread, it will be in a different one.
 

Benji335i

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Jan 18, 2018
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I see both sides of the story here. I too got frustrated with social media and now only interact here as a result. Its easier to share links and docs so it suits me

d like to I think I have a lot of patience for people ( i think i am one after all) but it is hard. Many people want to be spoon fed, want the result but dont want the effort. It can be frustrating and I think that's what John was expressing. I wouldn't take it personally either mate. Im sure you arent the type hes commented on :)

Appreciate that mate and I understand the frustration for some. However there is no need to have a chip on the shoulder. Even if ppl ask “irrelevant or stupid” questions. It isn’t the easiest concept to understand.

Back to topic I’ll be doing my homework on this. I don’t want to be accused of spamming.
 
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Tzaks

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May 30, 2019
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I will do my maintenance and follow-up after. Perhaps a small lack of oil can be the root cause of my issues.
 

Grunt

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Jul 30, 2019
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I downloaded it sometime last week. I went straight to stage 3 as I didn't see a point with the other stages. I didn't really notice any difference except for the shifts hitting harder and a "little" quicker than stock at first. Then I noticed that if kept it in drive, did not hit the sport button and the left the traction alone, the car would be in 7th gear at 40 mph. I've been back and forth with xhp and sending them logs so they can figure out my situation as to why it shift so high and bog itself down. In the meantime, I've been playing with the shift points for D and S in up shifts and down shifts. I would say I'm not dialed in yet, but oh my god the car is now a blast to drive just in D mode. Raising the downshift points as well now creates engine braking when I'm rolling through town. I've almost always shifted manual myself as this dct is my first ever non traditional manual car, but I can actually enjoy the car now when in it's "auto" mode.
 

JohnDaviz

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At the moment I am running stg3 with tq reduction set at 600 and tq punch stock. I think it is 4.
I think stock tq reduction is 500 and after setting it to 600 I get pretty heavy shifts in manual + sport button + DSC off up to 3k rpm. As if tq punch was set too high. But I did not change it. During driving it feels as if there is the need of adaption drive after changing a value. I have to drive more to see if it settles or if I have to adjust tq punch then. Setting tq reduction to 600 helped me with my little issues from the first post. So I will not go back to 500 again.

I am not sure if something went wrong. I double-checked my bin file and it looks right. I was thinking that the whole dct logic feels different to me now and that the throttle is now also acting differently as before xhp dct.

So I took the Throttle Response tables and zeroed them out. I had the feeling that it will work.. just a feeling.

1595518707842.png


I am really confused now as there is NO negative thing. Nothing acted up weird. No jump-starts. No nothing. Simply working perfectly!
I should add that I am running my own custom torque request maps.

I may be wrong but I have the feeling that with the xhp dct (as they are m3 gts files I think) the throttle response maps are meant to be zeroed out.
 
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carabuser

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Oct 2, 2019
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Z4 35i & 335i
The stock value for torque reduction is 175 on my Z4. What xHP displays in the app by default is not the stock value, rather their suggested starting point. I set mine to 420 and it seemed better than the 500 but it's really hard to gauge.

Also throttle correction is unrelated. That's a filter on the pedal value and has no influence over DME requested throttle position when it comes to internal control. Also your throttle shouldn't be moving during shift unless you overshoot boost.
 

JohnDaviz

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Also throttle correction is unrelated. That's a filter on the pedal value and has no influence over DME requested throttle position when it comes to internal control.

what do you mean by that exactly?

During the time the tables were found and released I lowered them and I directly felt an effect in more direct response. Now with them at 0 what I mean it works like a charm. Everything is direct and there is no jerking or similar. Also my issue from a standstill is gone.
 

RayBan

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Oct 27, 2016
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www.rbttuning.com
Clemens here from xHP...

As it's next to impossible to transport information through Social Media (it is lost after 2 days...), so we'd like to contribute to the discussion here. A few words as introduction, before we get to the points made here:

TCU-Remaps do not exist on it's own in a sealed environment. They are put onto cars, where owners have flashed the DME, stacked a JB4 on it, coded stuff with Carly and also did some fancy stuff like "flash the DSC from a M-Car onto a Z4, it works awesome". Also some of them are not on matching iStep, but have exchanged units from different MY cars, or maybe only updated their EMF through WinkFP to fix some quirks. All those units communicate with each other. Then someone flashes his TCU and has strange things happen and of course it has to be the last thing changed. Our Job is then to trace that stuff and teach the App how to recognize things and act accordingly. And of course BMW itself also has it's Bugs...it's software and it always has. You can't test that fully. Never. It always surfaces once a few hundred people out there use a product. What we do is develop on proper cars and then release and learn. In case of the DCT development took 15 months, 2 Transmissions and 3 cars. We developed (and are developing) on 335i E92, Z4 35i and M4 F8x.

And once it is out, everyone of course knows within seconds whats wrong. ;) (it's a non-matching ZB, they use old software, blablabla). All crap. Actually the ZB is just a Number...we could put in someones name their as well, if it makes him happy. A calibration for a Z4 can be turned into one for a 335i in a few minutes. (well we can...) The differences are in mapping and behavior mostly. Only small parts are in fact due to different hardware, which is in case of the Z4 the DEC switch and the EMF parking brake. (and of course all works normal on our own Z4 35i) N54 or N55 is negligible in the TCU mapping. Also EU or US does not play a role, yet there exist different ZBs for them. Some insight: The difference between most EU and US ZBs is different mapping of some gear-hold functions during lateral-G due to US customers seen as the more comfy ones by BMW. Sometimes they change a bit more, sometimes it's only a single bit for a sub-function turned off entirely. Stuff we remap anyway, so no need to care about that. I'm always smiling when comparing "user-experience" in forums between different ZBs and then open those maps and look what is actually changed. Thats why user-feedback is not of value in many cases. Peope just tend to trick themselves. Especially on first impression, when being still excited.

Making a map for single car is "easy". Making it work on thousands of cars with unkown history is the hard part. Everyone contacting us at [email protected] with issues with his Z4 (btw...to date it's 3 cars/owners) got a custom map and is fine. We are still working on a generic Map-Update, which should be there in a few days.


Now on to the things we read here:

"Launch Control does not work on Track": The "AG" cars use the DSC for Traction Control during LC, which is sub-optimal. The "M" Cars regulate it fully inside the TCU (while DSC is OFF) which is a much faster and precise method. Unfortunately it's not too easy to make the M-LC work on a AG car but with todays update on Android (Apple in a few days) there is a way out, with the "Kickdown Launch" Custom Function. This lets you select 2 type of clutch engagements (Perfomance or Burnout) and set an RPM for it. All you have to do is configure it, set car to DSC OFF, stage it and quickly go full throttle incl. Kickdown. The car will raise the RPM to the set threshold and then drop the clutch (Burnout Mode) or fade it in (Performance-Mode). On "Track" disabling the Creep function will help as well.

Short-Shifting: Thats more an opinion as really an actual error. Can be intended by us and is just not as the user wants it to be or is caused by changed throttle/load mapping in ECU Tune. Shiftpoints in BMW Software are based on raw Pedal-Value. If Tuner applies a more "aggressive" Throttle-Mapping in DME, it inevitably pulls down all Shift-Points. Possible solutions: Ask Tuner to leave that stuff alone, flash Stock DME Map, remove crappy "Throttle-Tuner" (Placebo-Box connected at Pedal), press Sport Button, use Shiftmap-Editor in xHP, check "Use Stock Shiftmaps" in xHP. For instance on our 335i the typical take-off 1-2 shiftpoint is down from 3000 to 2300, with the current FBO DME Map. The shiftmap in the TCU has not changed, but the throttle is adjusted to be more aggressive in the DME Tune, so you are only giving it 20% Throttle, instead of ~ 35% on a normal take-off, which pulls down the shiftpoint. Thats inherent and thats the reason the Shiftmap-Editor is there. There is no "optimal" mapping for all the throttle/load maps all the Tuners out there create. We map for stock Load/Throttle Mapping as that is the only base and consistently tell all Tuners to leave those maps alone. (they often just do not know what they are causing)

"Jerky" Take-Off part-throttle: Purely DME related. Same Topic as above. We did not change anything there. Actually the clutch grabs a bit more aggressive on the Z4 cars, but again...thats just different mapping by BMW, not hardware related. Solution: Similar as above, just be more gentle on throttle or disable creep. This makes take-off in general a bit more smoother as there is no Clutch-Torque added from the Creep-Function itself.

"RPM stays fixed for a short period after shift:" Yes, it does. It always did. You just started to recognize it now. The RPM needle does not show real RPM. (it would wobble all the time) Instead it's a calculated value the DME wants you to see and sometimes very, very alert people acknowledge those small deviations during shifts.

"My Car feels little better": It will feel even more different with the coming updates and will get a lot smarter in terms of driver-recognition in D and S Mode. (change behavior based on braking, cornering, throttle aggression etc.) It will then also blip on itself during braking in Sport Mode.

"Sport+ becomes the same as Sport, only fast in DSC OFF:" Sorry, to disappoint you but Sport and Sport+ is the same shift-speed. It always was. Only D and S mode chose different shift-points, but M mode stays the same. With the stock map you are not even able to access the DSC OFF Shiftmode. (it stays the same as Sport) It's not active in AG cars, only in M3. So the car will shift exactly the same in Sport/Sport+ and DSC OFF with stock map. With Stage 2 and Stage 3 the full potatoe in DSC OFF is unlocked. Try to lower torque reduction to 100 Nm in Custom Settings and see your tyres spin on 1-2 upshift in DSC-OFF.

And just for the record, we are 6 people at xHP. ;)
 

JohnDaviz

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Jan 6, 2019
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Hi Clemens,
thank you for being on board here in this thread.

I really appreciate your input but at the same time, I feel like you are defending yourself in some way. You should not! There is no offense going on here. Ppl only share a subjective experience. Each to their own.
We are all here just to share experience and we love what you enabled for us. At least I do love stg3 on my car :)

I hope you will be more active here also in the future!
 
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carabuser

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Hi Clemens, it's good to have you here, forums make a great base for support.

I think you're downplaying the issue with the Z4 a bit. I'd appreciate the technical reason for the issues because the flash used as the base for the OTS maps is a calibration intended for the 335i and the rectification involved reworking the tune with a different .0da base.
 
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aus335iguy

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Nov 18, 2017
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Hi Clemens
Thanks for joining us here.
I understand the point you make about testing for all of the scenarios being next to impossible but surely it would have been better to assume anybody who’s buying your product and modifying a transmission would have at least engine mods and other things going on. I can’t think of a single person here who would modify the gearbox but leave the rest of the car stock. Who does that ? 🤪
 

sb335is

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Nov 23, 2019
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What are the MHD settings supposed to be when flashing with XHP? Are you still supposed to select DCT? And what about the disable kickdown option in MHD?
 
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carabuser

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What are the MHD settings supposed to be when flashing with XHP? Are you still supposed to select DCT? And what about the disable kickdown option in MHD?

That's a good question. @RayBan

I'm running a custom map so have been testing and tweaking to get things dialled in with xHP.

Previously we have over-reported torque to increase clutch pressure but I've moved my torque divisor (fuel) closer to stock to drop reported torque. One thing I've noticed is that when reporting torque under 700nm you get Tq Limit Active 4 during shift which is "GS_DEC, torque reduction for gear shift". This occurs on the stock map and the shifts are fine but I'd like Clemens to comment a little on what torque we should report.

I'm guessing the TCU has a curve for clutch clamping pressure based on reported torque and rpm, would be nice to get a peak of that.
 
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RayBan

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Oct 27, 2016
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Hi Clemens, it's good to have you here, forums make a great base for support.

I think you're downplaying the issue with the Z4 a bit. I'd appreciate the technical reason for the issues because the flash used as the base for the OTS maps is a calibration intended for the 335i and the rectification involved reworking the tune with a different .0da base.

No, that was just a quick fix per custom map to gain some knowledge. The OTS Maps will stay on the same base.

Hi Clemens
Thanks for joining us here.
I understand the point you make about testing for all of the scenarios being next to impossible but surely it would have been better to assume anybody who’s buying your product and modifying a transmission would have at least engine mods and other things going on. I can’t think of a single person here who would modify the gearbox but leave the rest of the car stock. Who does that ? 🤪

Yeah, but thats not the point. There are 10.000 of engine tuners out there and each one cooks their own soup. We work together with MHD as this is the choice for most people on those platforms. But as said above thats by far not the only variable. The reverse thing is tied to different EMF versions.

What are the MHD settings supposed to be when flashing with XHP? Are you still supposed to select DCT? And what about the disable kickdown option in MHD?

Select Manual. (unscaled L2T) If you disable Kickdown you loose everthing related to Kickdown. Launch Control won't work for instance, cause that only enables when the Trans receives "Kickdown active" from the DME. In fact the DME is just the wrong place to disable a Kickdown. It's a band-aid from times where there was no xHP. When we are saying we "disable Kickdown" it means the trans won't downshift on it's own in Manual when pressing the Kickdown. When ticking the option in MHD you disable the Kickdown switch entirely. No other ECU will see it then, which means all functions tied to it are gone. Not only the ones you desire to get rid off.

Regarding " Tq Limit Active 4 ": Thats normal during shift.
 

JohnDaviz

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Jan 6, 2019
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Regarding " Tq Limit Active 4 ": Thats normal during shift.

I am really unsure about that. I never had Tq Limit Active 4 occurred during my custom tunes.
Now found it with xhp the first time in one log. I shifted at 3k Rpm and torque actual dropped from 380 to 183.

Later Shifts did not have limiter active.

Another thing.
I disabled creep. It reduced creep up to 99%.
If I stop the car still creeps with less than 1km/h. 10 Seconds later creep is gone.
Same with going into reverse but slightly faster than in D.
I don´t know if this is normal.