Volute methanol injection

Notmpwr

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Anyone messed with volute methanol injection on the stock turbos? I've had luck on larger stuff s400 chassis and gt55 but never have tried it on such a small unit. I do know it will help extend the compressor map but I think the stock turbos are just turbine limited.
 

dyezak

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I've not heard of anyone doing this, but I remember trying it back on one of my DSM's. It was nice, but I ate my compressor wheel within a year.
 

doublespaces

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So, I presume this is injected right into the compressor housing? I've seen people try staggered injection/pre turbo however I've never seen anyone do something like this and definitely not on stock turbos. Why not a 35 shot instead?
 

Bmwfixerguy1

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I've seen guys do a pre turbo set up but not directly in the compressor housing.
I've only heard they if you go small enough on nozzle that you don't have nearly any compressor damage.
If these turbos were easier to swap out I think more people would give it a try.
The ones that are easy, the ST set ups. Don't really need to alter a map because they already have what they want
 

Notmpwr

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Th volute injection has no chance of damaging the inducer because it's spraying fluid into the scroll directly into the hottest area, in turn you have the fastest evaporation and the most heat reduction.

I'm not a big fan of nitrous, especially with the way the current tunes are setup. I might look into some new ways of providing a timing retard function while still having a full timing map when the n20 is not being used. One tune for all.
 

Bmwfixerguy1

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Th volute injection has no chance of damaging the inducer because it's spraying fluid into the scroll directly into the hottest area, in turn you have the fastest evaporation and the most heat reduction.

I'm not a big fan of nitrous, especially with the way the current tunes are setup. I might look into some new ways of providing a timing retard function while still having a full timing map when the n20 is not being used. One tune for all.
I had no clue that it has zero chance of damage when it's mounted in the volute.. Really cool to know
 

dyezak

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Pre-compressor meth injection is supposed to increase compressor efficiency. The wetting action is supposed to help seal the compressor wheel to the compressor housing. Plus it lowers intake temps too. That's why I did it on my 14b on my DSM back in the day (and you could get used ones for $250 all day long so not much loss).

But I've never heard of putting it directly in the volute! That's new on me and I mis-understood originally.
 

Notmpwr

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Pre-compressor meth injection is supposed to increase compressor efficiency. The wetting action is supposed to help seal the compressor wheel to the compressor housing. Plus it lowers intake temps too. That's why I did it on my 14b on my DSM back in the day (and you could get used ones for $250 all day long so not much loss).

But I've never heard of putting it directly in the volute! That's new on me and I mis-understood originally.


How much were you spraying pre compressor? I've had a customer's Subaru going for almost 8 years pre compressor with zero signs of erosion.
 

dyezak

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To be honest I don't remember. It was a the smallest nozzle I had...but the quality of meth injection kits/components back in 1994-1996 when I was doing this was questionable at best compared to what we have today. The pumps didn't produce but a couple PSI, the nozzles were basically just metered orifices and had no atomization capability.

We have come a long way in the past 20y...
 

jyamona

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I might look into some new ways of providing a timing retard function while still having a full timing map when the n20 is not being used. One tune for all.

You can easily use my upcoming MHD flex fuel functionality for this, as long as your n20 controller can spit out a linear voltage based on how much it's spraying :)
 
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Notmpwr

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If i used a progressive controller i could do that, but for such a small shot it would be difficult because the n20 solenoids dont flow very well on very low duty cycle.
 

jyamona

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If i used a progressive controller i could do that, but for such a small shot it would be difficult because the n20 solenoids dont flow very well on very low duty cycle.

Treat it as on / off then with two different voltages.
 

Notmpwr

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I had originally planned on using the timing total, charge air temp table for any nitrous retard. I would just make a relay setup that sends a set resistance to the iat sensor wire to max the table out when the n20 is spraying, creating a table that can be edited yet wont effect the tune when its not spraying. Im assuming the scaling in that table is rpm X iat in Celsius?
 

jyamona

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I had originally planned on using the timing total, charge air temp table for any nitrous retard. I would just make a relay setup that sends a set resistance to the iat sensor wire to max the table out when the n20 is spraying, creating a table that can be edited yet wont effect the tune when its not spraying. Im assuming the scaling in that table is rpm X iat in Celsius?

Yea it's *C I believe. And while that way works, it's far from the best method. IAT effects a ton of other variables in the tune, defined and undefined (think: VE, airflow, fueling models, etc)
 

Notmpwr

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Yea it's *C I believe. And while that way works, it's far from the best method. IAT effects a ton of other variables in the tune, defined and undefined (think: VE, airflow, fueling models, etc)

Ok i wasn't sure if the iat was only used for timing correction, Im confused about the table anyways. the xdf says x axis is rpm and y axis is load but im not sure how you could determine iat from load. And then the correction factor table axis is fahrenheit vs fahrenheit just scaled differently? Is this an error or am i misinterpreting?
 

Notmpwr

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unless the one table is the base and then the correction factor table is a percentage of that based on iat and load.
 

jyamona

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unless the one table is the base and then the correction factor table is a percentage of that based on iat and load.

Timing Cor. Factor has two Axis, x-axis is IAT, y-axis is coolant temp I believe. This is the percentage to be applied to the actual ign retard value found in Timing Total Cor. (which is axised off load and rpm)
 
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doublespaces

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unless the one table is the base and then the correction factor table is a percentage of that based on iat and load.

So what happened with this? Also, is Volute injection for nitrous only or can you also use methanol or water?
 

Twisted Tuning

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Volute injection is great if you remove the Intercooler. I've always been concerned with injecting anything Pre-intercooler that it would pool a good portions of the fluid. Some will evaporate, yes. But i still think a lot would collect on the hot side of the IC.

Just theory, as i haven't tested it with an intercooler, but i did a Volute install on a Grand National with methanol. And also on a older 70's twin turbo camaro on the bottle. Neither had intercoolers though.