Uprated turbos for N54 in an E89 35is

pbondar

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They make the smaller setup for a reason. It's why I went with the HP650 over the HP800, given what I was looking to accomplish. And I discussed it with Omar as well, to get feedback, since it is his product line.

You might consider talking to TTE if you are looking to go that direction. You seem to have a strong idea of where you want to end up - that's to your advantage on these kinds of decisions.
Filippo, all noted thanks..when I did the same journey on the N20, I used a modestly uprated MHI version of the OE MHI turbo..there was a slight increase in lag and the torque curve moved fractionally to the right.

There is a school of thought that suggests you move the torque curve to the right to avoid causing excess stress on the engine..the N20 was labelled as ‘fragile’..given the N54 reputation maybe thats not an issue here?

I’ll do some research on the TTE500 vs TTE600👍
 

pbondar

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Also consider the turbo outlets. Since you are RHD then most of the larger twins require upgraded outlets and that's difficult with the steering column in the way.
As I understand it the TTE guys ‘hand’ their offer to help address this issue?👌
 
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JohnDaviz

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Again. I love my HP650s. They are awesome turbos. But they are not close to stock spool on pump fuel and not the right path for OPs requirements.
 
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fmorelli

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Filippo, all noted thanks..when I did the same journey on the N20, I used a modestly uprated MHI version of the OE MHI turbo..there was a slight increase in lag and the torque curve moved fractionally to the right.

There is a school of thought that suggests you move the torque curve to the right to avoid causing excess stress on the engine..the N20 was labelled as ‘fragile’..given the N54 reputation maybe thats not an issue here?

I’ll do some research on the TTE500 vs TTE600👍
I will point out that tuning can do the same. As has been said here before, a tuner can dial a stock N54 up so it bends the rods with factory turbos. In short your tuner can move that torque curve.
 

fmorelli

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Again. I love my HP650s. They are awesome turbos. But they are not close to stock spool on pump fuel and not the right path for OPs requirements.
Yeah I'm not suggesting them, given he's got his sights on something else. But I'm curious ... or to clarify ... the issue in your opinion is tied to fueling? That is why the smaller turbos are not the better choice?
 

martymil

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I've been looking for my next set of turbos as well recently, I've landed on RB Game finishers hf's. You can chose between high flow and standard flow. The other option i was considering was offerings from Hydra. Although, i'm not sure about outlet fitment in a RHD car for either. @martymil can probably chime in regarding that.
Show me a pic of the outlets on the turbos and I will be able to tell you straight away if it will fit or not.
 

martymil

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As I understand it the TTE guys ‘hand’ their offer to help address this issue?👌

I can make any 1m style or rhd turbos outlets suit any turbo just need a set of cores, even if there is no guts in them so I can bolt them onto our
spare motor and design them.

I can tell you if they will fit or not just by looking at the pics.
 

JohnDaviz

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Yeah I'm not suggesting them, given he's got his sights on something else. But I'm curious ... or to clarify ... the issue in your opinion is tied to fueling? That is why the smaller turbos are not the better choice?

I wouldn´t call it an issue but rather the nature of pump vs. ethanol mixes (especially high ethanol content).

Ehanol blends lead to higher fuel consumption as simply the energy content is declining the higher your ethanol mix gets.
As you consume more fuel you naturally generate more exhaust gasses. The advantage is that with that your turbos start spooling quicker because the exhaust gasses are starting to move faster as new ones are coming fast from new burned fuel.

Just imagine pouring water through a hole in a tank. Now increase the water mass but at the same time the water has to drain faster so that you don´t collect water in the water tank.
 
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fmorelli

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I wouldn´t call it an issue but rather the nature of pump vs. ethanol mixes (especially high ethanol content).

Ehanol blends lead to higher fuel consumption as simply the energy content is declining the higher your ethanol mix gets.
As you consume more fuel you naturally generate more exhaust gasses. The advantage is that with that your turbos start spooling quicker because the exhaust gasses are starting to move faster as new ones are coming fast from new burned fuel.

Just imagine pouring water through a hole in a tank. Now increase the water mass but at the same time the water has to drain faster so that you don´t collect water in the water tank.
Interesting. Thanks for elaborating!
 

carabuser

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I've always been impressed with Rob at RB. Good track record and even though I'm still yet to buy anything from him he always answers my questions.

I can make any 1m style or rhd turbos outlets suit any turbo just need a set of cores, even if there is no guts in them so I can bolt them onto our
spare motor and design them.

I can tell you if they will fit or not just by looking at the pics.
Have you considered making unsquashed RHD outlets and selling them?

They've got to be a serious bottleneck even on stock turbos and there's really no options for us RHD guys.
 

pbondar

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So chaps pulled the trigger on a pair of TTE500s…I’ll live with the consequences 🙈🙈🙈👌👌👌

Any recommendations on a MHD tuner for these babies..Wedge?
 

martymil

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I've always been impressed with Rob at RB. Good track record and even though I'm still yet to buy anything from him he always answers my questions.


Have you considered making unsquashed RHD outlets and selling them?

They've got to be a serious bottleneck even on stock turbos and there's really no options for us RHD guys.

Been doing it for few years, I use to modify the factory ones then I developed the rear rhd turbo pipe for vtt which he sells now.
 
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Neg89

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I am running tte500 for a few months, now thinking upgrading to tt600, the spool does seem not fast, but i can put log to you guys confirm that. Atacama also.
 

pbondar

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I am running tte500 for a few months, now thinking upgrading to tt600, the spool does seem not fast, but i can put log to you guys confirm that. Atacama also.
AFAIK, going to a bigger turbo isn’t going to improve spool up times?
 

Neg89

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AFAIK, going to a bigger turbo isn’t going to improve spool up times?
Thats for shure, but i believe i can get more whp over tte500. My goal is +50 compared to where i a am now. That would be Ok for me. Any comments on this. I am running pump EURO 98 only, would i get some extra power? Do i gain if i get flexfuel kit and start to add say 50/50 euro 98 oct+e85?
 

pbondar

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Thats for shure, but i believe i can get more whp over tte500. My goal is +50 compared to where i a am now. That would be Ok for me. Any comments on this. I am running pump EURO 98 only, would i get some extra power? Do i gain if i get flexfuel kit and start to add say 50/50 euro 98 oct+e85?
I’m no expert on turbos (yet)…the TTE600 would offer 50-100 BHP over the TTE500 I would imagine on pump fuel.

The torque curve is shifted to the right quite markedly so it’s not going to improve bottom end go..IMHO..

Using alcohol be it ethanol or water and methanol is easy wins for ICEs..

The cooling effect of the alcohol helps control internal temperatures allowing overall much more power..

The counter issues are here in UK no streetside access to those fuels and because alcohols are not so energy dense they need more fuel to make the same power and because you can make yet more power you need even more fuel…so injectors and fuel pumps rapidly run out of capacity …
 

fmorelli

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The counter issues are here in UK no streetside access to those fuels and because alcohols are not so energy dense they need more fuel to make the same power and because you can make yet more power you need even more fuel…so injectors and fuel pumps rapidly run out of capacity …
At some point this is true. But moving to an eMix the injectors and HPFP are fine to a point. You need a new tank pump and bigger fuel lines, though. Much after E40 or E50 mix there is not much benefit, so that's a plus (you don't run straight E85). Lack of access though ... that's a bummer.
 

pbondar

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At some point this is true. But moving to an eMix the injectors and HPFP are fine to a point. You need a new tank pump and bigger fuel lines, though. Much after E40 or E50 mix there is not much benefit, so that's a plus (you don't run straight E85). Lack of access though ... that's a bummer.
Useful to know where the inflexion points are..thanks..

The only option really that is easily accessible is octane booster at around 30 USD per bottle per tank to take fuel to 102+RON..

Widely accessible is 98 RON and there is one supplier that does 99 RON..

So I think I’ll plan to use 98 RON as my reference point …
 
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martymil

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The problem with octane boosters is they foul the plugs especially when used with every fill up.

E85 can be brought in a can if you cant get it at the bowser, all you have to do is add 10 litres of e85 or e100 to 98ron.

It will be the same as octane booster and wont have any negative effect on mileage or fuel system whilst keeping your plugs clean.
 
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martymil

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I forgot to mention its 10 litres to every fill up from 1/3 of the tank on 98 if you run it to empty its 15 litres of e85 from a can.

The first fill up will take 15 litres of e85 and each subsequent one will only need 10 litres from a 1/3rd of the tank

If you get bowser e85 make sure you measure it as it varies in E content and when you blend you will have to test it to make E10.

Some 98ron already has e85 content in them to make 98ron or 93 in the states so your going to have to test what works

Clean 98 is not the same as e10 98 as its 95 mixed with e to make 98 if that make sense.

Clean 98 with 10% is roughly the same as 98 mixed with e10 from the bowser mixed with another 10 litres to make e20.

I aim for 7 to 8 deg of timing on clean no e content 98 and blend to make e10 as that will give you the best power and it will be safe if you cant get any e85 and it will not hurt your motor as all the ecu will do is pull timing until you get some.

Hope this makes it easier for some.

Its not exact science just a guide that will reach the same outcomes within the ballpark.