Think i may be the first on fly switchable maps

[Rob09msport]

I've talked to v8bait , hydra ,twisted and torgus about this and I just ordered flow guard and an evolve with twisted tuning meth kit. I am going to do a switchable flash only solution.
First attempt will be wiring up the meth kit as normal but then I am going to try running the flowgaurd to the dme and also the evolve at the same time if possible. This will be the way to go cause when meth is off I will be 93 tune but if flow goes out of range for some reason it will trigger failsage and dump boost. This way I can manually turn meth on and advance timing at same time but have It super safe. Also an added benefit is i can start advancing timing low in rpm range because it will only advance after meth is flowing so tip in should be way smoother instead of having to be conservative with tuning to make sure that meth is already their. I am considering ordering an additional fav so that I can have a small nozzle spray starting at like 3 psi this would normally not be feasible but since I could daily without it a 2.5 gal or 5 gallon tank will be plenty. Plus I make 2 lb boost on highway maintaining speed so I will only spray when accelerating. I am actually thinking of doing this 1st nozzle pre fmic so it cools the outlet and my fmic this way I can pre cool car by brake boosting . Looking for any flaws in my plan as I am trying to not do this ten times like my transmission. I also am ordering tranny cooler a d possibly oil cooler from n54gasm so I will document my tstat choices and results.
Not sure why no tuner has marketed dual maps like race gas and pump or track and daily etc as a simple 5v source and relay could do this with flex fuel logic but hopefully this could lead to more trying it.

 

[aus335iguy]

I always wondered if it could be done with the sport button but ive been told no so this is another way at it

 

[Rob09msport]

Actually I am going to do withbsport button lol if you look at my post in martymill thread about what we want developed. The sport button on a dct shifter will be my power relay for the meth controller
Also a 2 10k resistors in series would step down to 5v but actually I would do 20k then a 1k in series and tune the map change at like 50 percent flow so dme never sees 5v since we never really get 12v in the car world.

 

[Rob09msport]

I ordered the charge pipe setup as per recommendation from my tuner but I know twistee really pushes port for distribution. I just am trying to not bite off to much as this will be my first install. Does anyone know around when distribution becomes issue and I have heard staying 100 percent meth will phase change and therefore distribute better.

I also am curious if any logging is diff as i know ff logic converts some tables like fuel scalar to single bank and consolidated others. One goody is no more multi spark for anyone even stock coil.

 

[AzNdevil]

not worth going through all the trouble IMO if you are just going to spray and pray through the chargepipe...
might as well run it off a cheap AEM kit and spray by referencing boost and tune until it knocks

however, it would make a whole lot of difference if you are doing a port injected meth setup since you are run it in conjunction with the flex fuel mhd module and setup the map to work with together

 

[Rob09msport]

I think I will be switching to twisted plate but rather then jump all in head first I want to do it smart. The ability to drive around normal and then flip switch or push sport button on shifter and have boost raise 3 psi and timing go from 7 to 12 degrees will be pretty cool and hindered percent methanol phase changes at 100 degrees so distribution of pure meth is actually pretty good. Then once all seems to be working good I will possibly go dpmi and can prob hit 14 degrees timing. If I were running e85 and running out of fuel I could see your point but I am using meth for octane and cushion. Also I dont have a big single my turbos will be stretched at 650whp.
Either way your logic doesnt really add up cause aem uses no solenoid just check valve that's kinda scary. I will have a solenoid in trunk on tank and then a fav in engine bay and then check valves at nozzles so I would need two solenoids to fail and controller to run pump to flood my engine. Meth usually kills by flowing when it shouldnt. Now aem with failsafe and solenoid is ok setup but their faislafe is 260 and then a solenoid now your pretty much at 900 bucks for less features. Ya you get a gauge but I can use mhd for that and torqbyte makes a screen with some control ability as well.
Also from what I have seen on forums so grain of salt but it seems aem is not good with straight meth and their failsafes fail and some complain of controller failures

 

[Jake@MHD]

Not sure why no tuner has marketed dual maps like race gas and pump or track and daily etc as a simple 5v source and relay could do this with flex fuel logic but hopefully this could lead to more trying it.

Because the flex fuel logic is intended to be used with a 0-5v input, not just on/off. If someone wants straight map switching, there is no need for an input and that is coming too

 

[AzNdevil]

hence i mentioned the term, spray and pray lol... you can add checkvalves to a aem kit as a seperate option

the ability to switch maps sound cool on a second thought but... using it for octane and spraying through the chargepipe is still a bad idea...

@jyamona thought you guys forgot about the n54 market....especially with the new platforms and stuff

 

[Jake@MHD]

@jyamona thought you guys forgot about the n54 market....especially with the new platforms and stuff

No way, still love the N54!

 

[Rob09msport]

Because the flex fuel logic is intended to be used with a 0-5v input, not just on/off. If someone wants straight map switching, there is no need for an input and that is coming too

Figured you did all the table consolidation to technically store 2 Maps mine is just ghetto way too utilize it.
What limitations are their I know multi spark but some tables are reduced no biggie cause interpolation but what tables are converted to single bank and does that have any side effects or are they tables that are normally same value for both banks so just a form of compression? Like ff still logs lambda on two banks and stft etc right ?

 

[Rob09msport]

hence i mentioned the term, spray and pray lol... you can add checkvalves to a aem kit as a seperate option

the ability to switch maps sound cool on a second thought but... using it for octane and spraying through the chargepipe is still a bad idea...

@jyamona thought you guys forgot about the n54 market....especially with the new platforms and stuff

Genuinely asking do you run meth ? And do you run dpmi . V8bait is very knowledgable and I have full faith in his tuning he was the one that for my goals recommended staying charge pipe cause alot less to go wrong and like I said it's not like I am supplementing fuel so I assume he will be tuning me on the rich side and he told me shiit for min 750ml but dont go huge nozzle and hydra told me stay below 850ml on charge pipe and torgus runs a aquamist on charge pipe at 1100ml but some very smart people all told me the same thing. Now I think tbi is worse than cp and also when people were doing it cause they hit fueling limits that was bad idea. Nothing is general with modding everything has its limit and application no straight rules. People have to be careful cause they dont want someone taking ebay crap and running 2000ml through a single nozzle and wondering why their engine popped. Also I am not an average modder in that I wont just install and forget so I would prob not have one nozzle fail and not know . This is all why I am doing stages so I learn this system and then I can program so that if my flow changes from expected at the current fav duty cycle I will have failsafe trigger. That's where the advanced non linear curves in the mc1 are handy cause it should be much more accurate since it can learn the flow sensor and the pump draw.

 

[Jake@MHD]

but what tables are converted to single bank and does that have any side effects or are they tables that are normally same value for both banks so just a form of compression? Like ff still logs lambda on two banks and stft etc right ?

Yes both banks still log separately and everything. Just the tables were combined as they should be set the same if your car is running properly anyway.

 

[AzNdevil]

Genuinely asking do you run meth ? And do you run dpmi . V8bait is very knowledgable and I have full faith in his tuning he was the one that for my goals recommended staying charge pipe cause alot less to go wrong and like I said it's not like I am supplementing fuel so I assume he will be tuning me on the rich side and he told me shiit for min 750ml but dont go huge nozzle and hydra told me stay below 850ml on charge pipe and torgus runs a aquamist on charge pipe at 1100ml but some very smart people all told me the same thing. Now I think tbi is worse than cp and also when people were doing it cause they hit fueling limits that was bad idea. Nothing is general with modding everything has its limit and application no straight rules. People have to be careful cause they dont want someone taking ebay crap and running 2000ml through a single nozzle and wondering why their engine popped. Also I am not an average modder in that I wont just install and forget so I would prob not have one nozzle fail and not know . This is all why I am doing stages so I learn this system and then I can program so that if my flow changes from expected at the current fav duty cycle I will have failsafe trigger. That's where the advanced non linear curves in the mc1 are handy cause it should be much more accurate since it can learn the flow sensor and the pump draw.

yes i am running an howerton aquamist hfs4 system and planning to go dpmi as well...
i do agree v8bait is very knowledgeable and if hes doing the tune then it should be all good

but your statements in both posts, "like I said it's not like I am supplementing fuel" and "I am using meth for octane" , is very contradicting...
you are leaning on it either way but with failsafes in place it should be fine

 

[Torgus]

torgus runs a aquamist on charge pipe at 1100ml

I like to live dangerously

 

[scrllock]

thought you guys forgot about the n54 market....especially with the new platforms and stuff

Nope, it's the e-series n55 that's been forgotten. FWIW anyone who's already gotten the ecutek setup on f-series n55 would likely be the first to real switchable maps.

 

[Rob09msport]

yes i am running an howerton aquamist hfs4 system and planning to go dpmi as well...
i do agree v8bait is very knowledgeable and if hes doing the tune then it should be all good

but your statements in both posts, "like I said it's not like I am supplementing fuel" and "I am using meth for octane" , is very contradicting...
you are leaning on it either way but with failsafes in place it should be fine

I to never understand that terminology but I realized what it means later on. If you tune for the full use of the meth or if you run out of fuel and supplement with it you are very much leaning on it. Now if you are within the limits of your fuel system and you take advantage of the cylinder cooling and iat plus some octane basically spraying much less where you get full atomization and at this point even if you dont get even distribution the idea is that you are tuning for the lowest common denominator , I guess that's what I call it but anyway your rich so all cyl have fuel and as long as getting some meth its increasing octane and helping temps. Then this part is out my ass but the n54 does have per cyl fuel capability so idk if that helps anything but bottom line is you tune for your meth not add meth for your tune.

 

[Terry@BMS]

Looks like a lot of work and extra systems to do what the JB4 can already do for you out of the box.

 

[Jake@MHD]

Looks like a lot of work and extra systems to do what the JB4 can already do for you out of the box.

I didn't know the JB4 could blend between two full fully tunable timing maps, IAT compensation maps, AFR maps, fuel scalar maps, load request maps, etc

 

[Rob09msport]

Jb4 def isn't adjusting timing either or instantly adjusting load or fuel

 

[Rob09msport]

I love idea of jb4 but its always faster to teach someone sonething then to have then ask someone else do it if you get what I'm saying. Jb4 will always be reactive with little extra latency on each io