Reflex Plus Full E85 Requirements

[new guy]

Hello Spoolstreet,

I apologize if this has been discussed before but I haven't been able to find any info regarding the requirements to run full E85 with reflex +

I'm currently sourcing all the parts required to run full E85 (at approx 620whp) & want to be sure I'm not spending money on things I don't need..
Currently I have on the way;
Phoenix Racing Manifold w/ 750 cc Injectors
Reflex Plus, Reflex bar pressure sensor & Reflex Ethanol Harness
Upgraded Fuel line from port injection to tank with ethanol sensor

I currently have a stage 2 lpfp & I've been told to run full e85 I will need a stage 3 lpfp setup. I have been looking at the spool performance stage 3 lpfp however am not sure if i need a wiring harness or hobswitch? Can the reflex plus trigger the secondary pump? If so do I just drop in the stage 3 lpfp the same as the stage 2 lpfp without any extra wiring?

& lastly, I have heard about the metal intake manifolds heat soaking and to avoid this people have used a phenolic spacer in the past, will this be necessary?

Thank you & sorry for the dumb questions

 

[Torgus]

Yes you need a stage 3 aka 2 pumps for full E85.

According to: https://precisionraceworks.com/coll...ts/bmw-e9x-e8x-bucketed-performance-fuel-pump
Walbro 450 100% E85 500whp
Walbro 525 100% E85 550whp
Dual 450s 100% E85 875whp
Dual 525s 100% E85 975whp

The reflex can trigger the 2nd pump but not power it, still need a relay to the battery and wiring harness. My PR stage 3.75 v2 bucketed fuel pump in the tank came with a full harness with hobbs etc. I think I have it lying around if you want it? I don't need it as I use BMP4 for my fuel pumps.

A phenolic spacer is not a bad idea. Multiple people sell them for n54 manifolds. Make sure you get longer manifold studs. You don't need it. Air moves very fast in the IM under load. It can't hurt. my manifold came with it for free, I don't think I would pay for it. It also technically makes your intake runners longer which the general consensus is that is worse for performance, albeit probably negligible in a FI vehicle.

 

[new guy]

Yes you need a stage 3 aka 2 pumps for full E85.

According to: https://precisionraceworks.com/coll...ts/bmw-e9x-e8x-bucketed-performance-fuel-pump
Walbro 450 100% E85 500whp
Walbro 525 100% E85 550whp
Dual 450s 100% E85 875whp
Dual 525s 100% E85 975whp

The reflex can trigger the 2nd pump but not power it, still need a relay to the battery and wiring harness. My PR stage 3.75 v2 bucketed fuel pump in the tank came with a full harness with hobbs etc. I think I have it lying around if you want it? I don't need it as I use BMP4 for my fuel pumps.

A phenolic spacer is not a bad idea. Multiple people sell them for n54 manifolds. Make sure you get longer manifold studs. You don't need it. Air moves very fast in the IM under load. It can't hurt. my manifold came with it for free, I don't think I would pay for it. It also technically makes your intake runners longer which the general consensus is that is worse for performance, albeit probably negligible in a FI vehicle.

Thanks for getting back to me! I'm in Australia so I'm not sure if would work out cheaper to just buy the harness from Spool as im already paying for shipping the LPFP however I'm happy to pay you for the harness + shipping if it does work out cheaper, let me know how much!

This is the manifold I purchased; https://www.ebay.com/itm/2659009445...DOJfuvYUEEcAt4BXwwBq2fH5Q=|tkp:Bk9SR_6Pz6f5YA

It's not actually the 'phoenix racing' manifold however does look very similar & it doesn't include a phenolic spacer. I'll probably skip on the phenolic racer for now and see how I go.

Once again thanks for the response!

 

[Torgus]

Phenolic Spacer - BMP Manifold 1/2"

Our 1/2" phenolic spacer provides a thermal insulation between the cylinder head and intake plenum with the ability to make use of factory O-Rings to ensure an air tight seal every time.

precisionraceworks.com

Phenolic Spacer For N54/N55 and S55

So after doing some testing we have developed a Phenolic spacer to isolate our intake manifold from the heat of the cylinder head. The spacer is custom machined to fit all three platforms N54, N55 and S55 and will be included with all of our newer manifolds going forward. The thickness on the...

www.eospeed.com

You will be just fine without the spacer.

 

[new guy]

Phenolic Spacer - BMP Manifold 1/2"

Our 1/2" phenolic spacer provides a thermal insulation between the cylinder head and intake plenum with the ability to make use of factory O-Rings to ensure an air tight seal every time.

precisionraceworks.com

Phenolic Spacer For N54/N55 and S55

So after doing some testing we have developed a Phenolic spacer to isolate our intake manifold from the heat of the cylinder head. The spacer is custom machined to fit all three platforms N54, N55 and S55 and will be included with all of our newer manifolds going forward. The thickness on the...

www.eospeed.com

You will be just fine without the spacer.

Thanks for that mate, I might actually go with the stage 3 PR lpfp instead of the bucketless Spool system. Will I also be needing a return line + FPR?

 

[Torgus]

Thanks for that mate, I might actually go with the stage 3 PR lpfp instead of the bucketless Spool system. Will I also be needing a return line + FPR?

Ugh don't go bucketless!

I have been happy with all the PR gear I have purchased.

You will not need a FPR + return at 620whp. It would not hurt, but certainly not required. I would only do it if you have future plans of making north of 700whp.

 

[SLOWESTN54]

Personally I'd like to believe a bucketless setup done right doesn't have issues either as long as the pump heights are set correctly. I run a Walbro 450 with a Wablro 525 with the bucketless holder from PFS and have zero issues. I've done pulls with under 1/8th tank and it never loses or drops pressure.

I guess it also matters what you use the car for, maybe if your tracking the car hard you'd have issues with the basketless. From all the mountain driving I've done so far I haven't experienced anything yet.

 

[jzx_andy]

I don't see any benefit to having an external FPR setup with a run of the mill ~600whp N54 build.

In any event, a Reflex+ allows one to plumb in a fuel pressure sensor and use it on one of the aux inputs, have it log fuel pressure near the PI rail, and use that to fine tune PI injector duty cycle in accordance with actual fuel pressure. That should obviate the need for an external FPR.

 

[Torgus]

Personally I'd like to believe a bucketless setup done right doesn't have issues either as long as the pump heights are set correctly. I run a Walbro 450 with a Wablro 525 with the bucketless holder from PFS and have zero issues. I've done pulls with under 1/8th tank and it never loses or drops pressure.

I guess it also matters what you use the car for, maybe if your tracking the car hard you'd have issues with the basketless. From all the mountain driving I've done so far I haven't experienced anything yet.

I still don't see the advantage of a bucketless solution fwiw. It is less expensive and you get a bit more flow right? That is the two selling points?

If you use really nice fuel mats you will NEVER have a fuel starvation issue ever again(except is you literally have ZERO fuel in your tank): https://www.summitracing.com/parts/hly-16-111 || https://www.summitracing.com/parts/hly-16-102

 

[SLOWESTN54]

I still don't see the advantage of a bucketless solution fwiw. It is less expensive and you get a bit more flow right? That is the two selling points?

If you use really nice fuel mats you will NEVER have a fuel starvation issue ever again(except is you literally have ZERO fuel in your tank): https://www.summitracing.com/parts/hly-16-111 || https://www.summitracing.com/parts/hly-16-102

I genuinely just put 60.7 liters in my car and it didn't starve. Also yes I believe it adds a small bit of flow.

 

[Reformatt]

I have been keeping a eye on my lpfp pressure and the aux sensor I have on the dead end side of the port injection rail…so far I haven’t seen a noticeable difference in pressures..

Kinda off the topic sorry but was reading the thread an noticed the mention of the aux fuel sensor…

 

[jzx_andy]

I have been keeping a eye on my lpfp pressure and the aux sensor I have on the dead end side of the port injection rail…so far I haven’t seen a noticeable difference in pressures..

Kinda off the topic sorry but was reading the thread an noticed the mention of the aux fuel sensor…

All good. This is relevant.

Yes, there shouldn't be much (if any) difference in fuel pressure readings between the factory low pressure sensor and one on the PI rail.

AFAIK the Reflex cannot use the OEM fuel pressure sensor as an input for scaling PI injector duty cycle, hence the need for the aux sensor. Perhaps this limitation could be overcome in the future with some updates to the Reflex or MHD, so we don't need 2 sensors basically monitoring the same thing on the low pressure side of the fuel system, but yeah.