Rb turbo power levels

[Idratherbesurfing]

So i have a new e90 now, ive been out of the scene for a bit since my last car was ST. Can somone list the power ratings for all the RB turbos. He has a few more on the site that i remember seeing.

Id like to stay upgraded twins, MMP1K is a great idea but i havnt heard many nice things about them. Pure stage 2+ is super reliable and love them just trying to get more power then those.

 

[fmorelli]

MMP1K is a great idea but i havnt heard many nice things about them.

That's interesting. I don't believe I've even seen one customer dyno sheet posted for the MMP1K. Can you expound on the many things you've heard that aren't nice about them? I've heard bupkis, so I'm curious - and I'm even on the MMP facebook page, which currently has an MMP records thread - 66 posts ... zero for MMP1Ks.

Filippo

 

[Idratherbesurfing]

That's interesting. I don't believe I've even seen one customer dyno sheet posted for the MMP1K. Can you expound on the many things you've heard that aren't nice about them? I've heard bupkis, so I'm curious - and I'm even on the MMP facebook page, which currently has an MMP records thread - 66 posts ... zero for MMP1Ks.

Filippo

I have heard the quality is terrible, tons of shaft play and wastegates are awful. But... thats what i have heard, i have not seen them in person. Id love to see some of their dyno results though

Im not knocking their product by any means. Id really like to buy them. But im not going to spend 3500 on turbo that will combust.

 

[langsbr]

I have MMP stage 3s and I am very pleased with them. The only difference between the Stage 3 and 1Ks are the manifolds and turbine housings. Everything else is the same, and I've not had any of the issues you mention. The BMW world is easily one of the worst I've seen as far as trash talking vendors goes. I've yet to find a vendor that doesn't have something negative said about them. I chose MMP over other vendors because Mauricio gave a full technical, scientific approach to everything, and then tested his theory and gathered results, etc. They also were one of the only turbos at the time that fully disclosed specifics of the turbos. Most vendors just say Stage 1, stage 2, etc. with no specifics of what they have done.

There's been a number of >600whp Stage 3 examples, more than a few 130+ traps, and a couple in the 10s. I don't know if we will see 1K dynos pushed full tilt until some people drop some cash on building their motors.

 

[Blaster3500]

Mauricio gave a full technical, scientific approach to everything, and then tested his theory and gathered results, etc. They also were one of the only turbos at the time that fully disclosed specifics of the turbos.

Maybe for the original turbos but I couldn’t find even as much as a log before the 1ks were released. Zero data. From what I can tell Pure is the only manufacturer that does not disclose specifics of their turbos.

 

[Idratherbesurfing]

Soooo whats RBs highest flowing turbos...


I love pure. But for some reason it doesnt seem like they have any interest in producing cast manifold.

 

[Blaster3500]

Soooo whats RBs highest flowing turbos...


I love pure. But for some reason it doesnt seem like they have any interest in producing cast manifold.

I am sure Rob will respond soon, but the super evos. They have a larger comperssor housing but stock hotside. VTT and MMP are the only ones I am aware that have cast manifolds (outside the chinafolds). Pure claimed they had something in the works, but that was a long time ago.

 

[Rcboosted2007]

30psi on a daily through mmps, no issues. 18 mos or so later

 

[fmorelli]

I have heard the quality is terrible, tons of shaft play and wastegates are awful. But... thats what i have heard, i have not seen them in person. Id love to see some of their dyno results though

Im not knocking their product by any means. Id really like to buy them. But im not going to spend 3500 on turbo that will combust.

Would you kindly share some links to those statements you've heard? Seriously ... there are barely any MMP 1ks on cars at this point. No dyno sheets posted anywhere. Even the MMP group on Facebook is looking for dyno sheets (and that's the center of the MMP customer universe). I did Google searches for 5 minutes and could find nothing on MMP 1Ks when it came to real world experience. People are just now starting to do installs. There is a significant backlog of MMP 1k orders according to posts on the Facebook page (I've attached the waiting list, 40+ deep, most are MMP 1k orders).


At this point, you may not think you are knocking their product, but you've started a thread insinuating the the MMP 1ks have issues - "MMP1K is a great idea but i havnt heard many nice things about them...I have heard the quality is terrible, tons of shaft play and wastegates are awful." - effectively trashing them by proxy. I think it behooves you to support that statement with references - otherwise, yeah you are trashing the product. And if there are issues, people here would like to know; shoot us some links!

Filippo

 

[Rob@RBTurbo]

We are not often approached with any significant dyno sheets- so most are not worth sharing unless it is for a new product or the like. Most are in the 450-625whp range and the higher numbers seem to be dwindling off, it seems like many are wisening up that many of these big dyno number setups MOST often end up with either blown engines/turbos in short order. This is a big reason why across history many go silent for months/years or switch setups after doing something significant, whether running RB or any other competitors product.

Additionally when we see the higher numbers, we really do not care much for them either as their seems to be many variables that can lead to inflated dynos. Remember a dyno is a tool (a great tool if used correctly) that shows its' measured power on paper and not always the real world- as it is also a great tool for marketing too.

As such we do often get approached with drag racing ET's/Traps which arguably is the best way of showing how fast/quick a car really is in the real world- being that it is effectively the real world. What we have seen over the years is that regardless of Turbo "Stage" the big Forum and FB marketers haven't really shown any improvements over our equivalent offerings in the real world (power wise) yet; not that they aren't making some powerful setups it's just that they aren't really producing anything additional from a power only perspective. Additionally most every one of the RB guys have really basic setups in full weight vehicles, and nothing too special aside for some good track conditions and great combination of a select few modifications.

Performance aside our highest emphasis is quality and we are seeing absolute highest levels imaginable in this regard at 0% failure rate. To date we are rapidly approaching the 2 year mark on all of our entire current RB Portfolio and hundreds upon hundreds units sold- only 1 unit has came back which was an admitted customer/installer error. With a couple more "quiet months" it will be a full year since that occurrence.

Trust us it is NEARLY as fun if you are yanking your turbos off (even one time let alone two or three times) or replacing your engine to make the highest dyno numbers, we try to make this very clear to all of our customers as we have seen it happen many of times over the years from many N54 enthusiasts. Fortunately these days we are only hearing it from customers who are not even our own.

Thanks,
Rob

 

[fmorelli]

Rob, can you shed some light on your product selection? Walking your web site I'm having difficulty ascertaining what's what in terms of what one might consider product selection wise. If I counted correctly, there are respectively 4 TD03 and 6 TD04 selections.

I'm thinking in terms of a product chart (features, etc) and key benefits. Maybe you have something like that, or posted elsewhere.

Filippo

 

[Rob@RBTurbo]

Rob, can you shed some light on your product selection? Walking your web site I'm having difficulty ascertaining what's what in terms of what one might consider product selection wise. If I counted correctly, there are 4 TD03 selections and 6 TD04 selections.

I'm thinking in terms of a product chart (features, etc) and key benefits. Maybe you have something like that, or posted elsewhere.

Filippo

Yeah- it seems quite complicated but not too bad. Will try to summarize as quickly possible.

TD03 is a smaller centersection with smaller internals while TD04 is a larger centersection with larger internals.

TD04 is more robust and can be utilized also larger native TD04 "evo" style compressor housings. We were the first to release a true TD04 centersection upgrade on this platform in 2010 (RB Classics) and additionally the first to upgrade to the full native TD04 compressor housing offering to the platform in 2014 (Super RB EVOs).

TD03 is a very simple and cheaper pathway for OEM to higher powered turbos- but we do recommend going TD04 above if looking for the higher power levels (ie. 525+rwhp). This centersection is the most widely used in producing N54 hybrid turbos. We began finally using them into our product lineup in 10/2016.

TD03's-
RB OEMs: 10T cast compressor. Basically OEM turbos that will make OEM power (ie. sub 425whp). Production began 10/2016. Over 110 sets sold including the DIY CHRA kits. 0% failure rate since intro.
RB OEM Billets: 10T billet compressor. Basically OEM turbos with a billet compressor to make a tiny bit more power, hardly worth mentioning but not much cost increase either so worth it to some. Production began 10/2016. Approximately 20 sets sold including the DIY CHRA kits. 0% failure rate since intro.
RB Ones: 14T billet compressor. Basically the next real power improvement that is significant enough to mention. Carries power/boost to redline. Stage 1+ setup. Recommend for 425-475whp. Have seen them make 518whp to date at 22psi. Production began 2/2017. Approximately 45 sets sold since intro and one unit returned to customer/installer error.
RB Twos: 15T billet compressor. Basically the normal Stage 2 setup used across the world by most vendors. In beta test with 6 sets sold since 10/2017 with a 0% failure rate to date. Recommended for 475-525whp, we are sure will make significantly more. Planned for production in the next few months if all remains 0% failure rate. Have seen go 11.0 ET thus far. Extreme budget/performance setup at a sub $2,000 price point.

TD04's-
RB Next Gens: 15T billet compressor. Most widely sold setup. About 170 setups in field with production starting 9/2015. 0 failures in 2015. 2 failures in 2016 (one badly abused, one appeared to be a non-functioning BOV). 0 failures in 2017. 0 failures thus far in 2018. Highly proven. We've seen their predecessor (RB Classics) go 10.9x ET and 131 traps. Very quick response. We recommend for 500-550whp (efficient)- they can make (and have made) much more when pushed.
RB Next Gen Plus: 17T billet compressor. These units are becoming more and more sought after. Over 40 sets in field with production starting 10/2016. 0 failures from day 1 til present so also highly proven. We've seen them go 11.0x ET and 134 traps. Quick response. We recommend for 550-600whp (efficient)- they could more.
RB Super RB Stealths: 19T billet compressor. We do not sell these much anymore. The 19T wheels with their larger sizing are fairly laggy to many (not everyone, but many). Latest versions produced for about 16 months with 0% failures with approximately 10 sets of this iteration in field. We've seen them go 10.7 ET and 133mph traps. We recommend for 575-625whp, although we believe this is getting out of range for the housings.
Super RB EVO Options: 15T/17T/19T billet compressor optioning. Basically the same as the 3 above setup but with the larger (more efficient) TD04 compressor housing, matching larger outlets, etc. More efficiency and as such better outlet temps and more power (not large amounts).

All setups do what they are recommended above quite easily. We have a bunch of options though as many have varying performance goals with spool/power and budget is often the factor as well. With all of these setups available we feel we have most all bases covered for all of the variables. For the guys out there truly looking for the big power- we feel none of the hybrids available on the entire market are the best solution for them and as such should be considering ST kits or perhaps full custom Twin kits.

Any other questions you an always send over an email. Also keep in mind we often offer package discounts as well as other incentives pending on methods of payment/etc. We really do not market our products nor is our website the most updated, so it never hurts to shoot over an email to get the best/accurate pricing.

Rob

 

[Rob09msport]

What is the biggest you can go while still staying close to stock lag

 

[Idratherbesurfing]

I am sure Rob will respond soon, but the super evos. They have a larger comperssor housing but stock hotside. VTT and MMP are the only ones I am aware that have cast manifolds (outside the chinafolds). Pure claimed they had something in the works, but that was a long time ago.

Ive reached out to pure many times, its either a secret or really not happening. Been long enough they should have been released so id say its not going to happen

 

[Idratherbesurfing]

RB Super RB Stealths: 19T billet compressor. We do not sell these much anymore. The 19T wheels with their larger sizing are fairly laggy to many (not everyone, but many). Latest versions produced for about 16 months with 0% failures with approximately 10 sets of this iteration in field. We've seen them go 10.7 ET and 133mph traps. We recommend for 575-625whp, although we believe this is getting out of range for the housings.
Super RB EVO Options: 15T/17T/19T billet compressor optioning. Basically the same as the 3 above setup but with the larger (more efficient) TD04 compressor housing, matching larger outlets, etc. More efficiency and as such better outlet temps and more power (not large amounts).



So those two options seem the route for me. As ive mentioned before i know guys buy twins and push them to there absolutely limit daily and wonder why they dont last. Thats not a reliable way to go with twins or any turbo for that matter. Keep it within efficiency range and you should be ok other then manufacturers defects that randomly occur.

And before anyone says go single, i already was.

 

[Idratherbesurfing]

Thank you rob for answering my question.

 

[Idratherbesurfing]

Would you kindly share some links to those statements you've heard? Seriously ... there are barely any MMP 1ks on cars at this point. No dyno sheets posted anywhere. Even the MMP group on Facebook is looking for dyno sheets (and that's the center of the MMP customer universe). I did Google searches for 5 minutes and could find nothing on MMP 1Ks when it came to real world experience. People are just now starting to do installs. There is a significant backlog of MMP 1k orders according to posts on the Facebook page (I've attached the waiting list, 40+ deep, most are MMP 1k orders).
View attachment 11841 View attachment 11842

At this point, you may not think you are knocking their product, but you've started a thread insinuating the the MMP 1ks have issues - "MMP1K is a great idea but i havnt heard many nice things about them...I have heard the quality is terrible, tons of shaft play and wastegates are awful." - effectively trashing them by proxy. I think it behooves you to support that statement with references - otherwise, yeah you are trashing the product. And if there are issues, people here would like to know; shoot us some links!

Filippo

Ive spoke to the few shops that have installed them. No im not giving names. Dont ask. Thats not what this thread is about. If you guys would like to start a discussion on mmp1k turbos id be more then happy to follow thread that separately.

 

[fmorelli]

Ive spoke to the few shops that have installed them. No im not giving names. Dont ask. Thats not what this thread is about. If you guys would like to start a discussion on mmp1k turbos id be more then happy to follow thread that separately.

No problem. You brought the MMP 1ks up as part of this thread, not I. I like to ask for support behind such statements because people trash vendors and their products all the time. I'll just treat unsupported commentary as hearsay. Appreciate your responding.

Filippo

 

[Rob@RBTurbo]

No problem. You brought the MMP 1ks up as part of this thread, not I. I like to ask for support behind such statements because people trash vendors and their products all the time. I'll just treat unsupported commentary as hearsay. Appreciate your responding.

Filippo

Very often the "trash" is true but very few want to put it out there as they never know what the future holds and don't want to burn bridges or get involved in the drama. Installers get paid either way. Consumers could get warranty declinations or lose goodwill incentive "updates" for speaking out too.

Few may also want to get involved with tarnishing a business reputation, especially when they may otherwise seem to have a good reputation. It is just a matter of time, or years rather, when these things could come to the publics eye when there becomes a "me too" epiphany and a subsequent piranha effect occurs.

So in short the "support" you are seeking would require one 3rd party to (on their own accord) bring forth the statements of others based on their experiences- sometimes it takes many years before the consumers themselves start to care enough to do such things.

Rob

 

[Rob@RBTurbo]

RB Super RB Stealths: 19T billet compressor. We do not sell these much anymore. The 19T wheels with their larger sizing are fairly laggy to many (not everyone, but many). Latest versions produced for about 16 months with 0% failures with approximately 10 sets of this iteration in field. We've seen them go 10.7 ET and 133mph traps. We recommend for 575-625whp, although we believe this is getting out of range for the housings.
Super RB EVO Options: 15T/17T/19T billet compressor optioning. Basically the same as the 3 above setup but with the larger (more efficient) TD04 compressor housing, matching larger outlets, etc. More efficiency and as such better outlet temps and more power (not large amounts).



So those two options seem the route for me. As ive mentioned before i know guys buy twins and push them to there absolutely limit daily and wonder why they dont last. Thats not a reliable way to go with twins or any turbo for that matter. Keep it within efficiency range and you should be ok other then manufacturers defects that randomly occur.

And before anyone says go single, i already was.

You are welcome for the information sir. If you have any other questions or want any quotes feel free to shoot over an email and we will get back accordingly.

Rob