Race FMIC or water meth??

Bmxr152

Specialist
Jul 13, 2019
50
Lake tahoe
So I'm at the point now that my crappy 7" vrsf intercooler is pretty inefficient. I have had alot of experience in the past with my evos, and Audi's with water meth and had good results. However those intake manifold were alot better suited for wet flow. I'm not to sure how well the n54 oem manifold works with water injection with a nozzle about 8" from the throttle. So I'm at a debate of doing water meth or a vrsf race fmic. Both would cost similar with me building a proper meth system. Just want some input from users of both.
Right now I'm full bolt on. Inlets, outlets, mmp stage 3, stage 2 lpfp, vrsf 7" fmic, 3.5" turbo back, stock airbox with bme filter, n20 map. want to try and run 24psi but with the 25* intake temp jump on a 3-4 pull im being limited.
 

tisdrew

Corporal
Jun 27, 2017
159
Oh hey, we have almost the same mods -- I sold my ETS 7" and upgraded to vrsf race/1000hp intercooler and my IATs are so damn low.

Before/After 3rd gear pulls:
88->127*
102->109* (sorry, hot Florida summers vs winter above)


29331


EDIT:
Here's a more apt log with the new FMIC:
99->102*
29332
 
Last edited:
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Torgus

Major
Nov 6, 2016
1,574
Boston
Meth will technically be cheaper but to set it up 'correctly' it will be more expensive than the vrsf race IC. Ideally both if you can swing it.
 

Bmxr152

Specialist
Jul 13, 2019
50
Lake tahoe
Damn now that's impressive. Yeah summer here in texas is about 103 right now so I feel ya. So my temps are climbing like yours were, good to know the vrsf race intercooler solved it. Did you see reduction in timing corrections as well and did boost/wgdc stay about the same?
 

Asbjorn

Lieutenant
Mar 10, 2018
732
European, based in China
Please do not use 3rd gear pulls to evaluate FMIC performance. I have been running both 7" nonHD, 7.5" HD and now 7 HD. iat may fall during a 3rd gear pull with any of the HD cores, but then reach +220F after a lap or two on track in 100F weather. Get the WT evo 3 or any other large tube and fin core instead of the bar and plate type. It is much better on track. Then add water injection and FMIC water spray if that is still not enough.
 

tisdrew

Corporal
Jun 27, 2017
159
Please do not use 3rd gear pulls to evaluate FMIC performance. I have been running both 7" nonHD, 7.5" HD and now 7 HD. iat may fall during a 3rd gear pull with any of the HD cores, but then reach +220F after a lap or two on track in 100F weather. Get the WT evo 3 or any other large tube and fin core instead of the bar and plate type. It is much better on track. Then add water injection and FMIC water spray if that is still not enough.
I don't track my car, mostly just highway pulls/dyno/drag runs so bar and plate has been working fine. 220* is nuts, I always cooled my car off after 140* with my old intercooler. I agree that for 10-minute track work, tube and fin might better because while it has a lower heat capacity overall, it can also dissociate it's heatsoak quicker than my bar-and-plate design. However, for short-burst activity having a heat capacity above than what my car will generate means ultimately better cooling for my application. Do you have numbers/data/logs for your WT3 on track?
 

Torgus

Major
Nov 6, 2016
1,574
Boston
So I'm at the point now that my crappy 7" vrsf intercooler is pretty inefficient. I have had alot of experience in the past with my evos, and Audi's with water meth and had good results. However those intake manifold were alot better suited for wet flow. I'm not to sure how well the n54 oem manifold works with water injection with a nozzle about 8" from the throttle. So I'm at a debate of doing water meth or a vrsf race fmic. Both would cost similar with me building a proper meth system. Just want some input from users of both.
Right now I'm full bolt on. Inlets, outlets, mmp stage 3, stage 2 lpfp, vrsf 7" fmic, 3.5" turbo back, stock airbox with bme filter, n20 map. want to try and run 24psi but with the 25* intake temp jump on a 3-4 pull im being limited.
Because you have upgraded turbos meth is going to give you a lot more performance gains than the VRSF race IC. Just stick two nozzles in the CP and retune. The extra octane from the meth and cooling will allow you to run a more aggressive tune. Again, I would do both but if the choice is only 1 now get the meth and then retune and pick the VRSF race IC up the next month or whatever.
 

Asbjorn

Lieutenant
Mar 10, 2018
732
European, based in China
I don't track my car, mostly just highway pulls/dyno/drag runs so bar and plate has been working fine. 220* is nuts, I always cooled my car off after 140* with my old intercooler. I agree that for 10-minute track work, tube and fin might better because while it has a lower heat capacity overall, it can also dissociate it's heatsoak quicker than my bar-and-plate design. However, for short-burst activity having a heat capacity above than what my car will generate means ultimately better cooling for my application. Do you have numbers/data/logs for your WT3 on track?
Agree with your points.

I do not have datalogs from WT3. Only hearsay from others. I still run 7 HD. Have lots of track logs with 7, 7.5HD and 7HD. Most of them pretty scary.

Edit: I later added ER competition FMIC and WI, and by far the larger FMIC provides the most cooling benefit on track, whereas the WI just adds minor additional cooling. This is because a smaller FMIC heat soaks on track. On the street you normally wont see much of a difference between smaller and larger FMICs, and could gain more from the octane of WMI.
 
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Tuppidsay

Corporal
Aug 3, 2017
104
Seattle, WA
Many of us up here in the pnw are running meth for octane on pi systems. At the very least 10+. Some single most twins. All 500+ a couple over 700. It's risk is greatly over exaggerated with proper quality system components and safety devices. Sure I wouldnt go pushlock fittings on a charge pipe but a quality pi kit with all AN fittings and lines? Hell yeah. Is it a risk at all? For sure, but any modification is. I've been running meth myself for years on a 600+ hp n54. Today's meth kits aren't the single nozzle pushlock Hobbs switch systems they used to be. With controllers like the cm5-lt or jb4 etc they are relatively safe and have the failsafes to back them up such as cutting boost etc etc.
 
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ShocknAwe

Captain
Jan 24, 2018
1,010
Charleston, SC
Many of us up here in the pnw are running meth for octane on pi systems. At the very least 10+. Some single most twins. All 500+ a couple over 700. It's risk is greatly over exaggerated with proper quality system components and safety devices. Sure I wouldnt go pushlock fittings on a charge pipe but a quality pi kit with all AN fittings and lines? Hell yeah. Is it a risk at all? For sure, but any modification is. I've been running meth myself for years on a 600+ hp n54. Today's meth kits aren't the single nozzle pushlock Hobbs switch systems they used to be. With controllers like the cm5-lt or jb4 etc they are relatively safe and have the failsafes to back them up such as cutting boost etc etc.
Different strokes for different folks. Glad you've been successful with it. There's plenty of evidence that it's possible, that's for sure.
 

Torgus

Major
Nov 6, 2016
1,574
Boston
Many of us up here in the pnw are running meth for octane on pi systems. At the very least 10+. Some single most twins. All 500+ a couple over 700. It's risk is greatly over exaggerated with proper quality system components and safety devices. Sure I wouldnt go pushlock fittings on a charge pipe but a quality pi kit with all AN fittings and lines? Hell yeah. Is it a risk at all? For sure, but any modification is. I've been running meth myself for years on a 600+ hp n54. Today's meth kits aren't the single nozzle pushlock Hobbs switch systems they used to be. With controllers like the cm5-lt or jb4 etc they are relatively safe and have the failsafes to back them up such as cutting boost etc etc.
I agree. You just need a system with the proper failsafes. I have used meth for 4-5 years now. Not 1 issue since I installed it. All compression fittings.

A Fast Acting Valve and flow sensor w/ failsafes are key in my opinion. I don't really know how a system can be safe without...
 
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