Nexsys port injection for N54 getting closer

[pbondar]

11K views · 1K likes | Nexsys Motorsport on Instagram: "Today we are providing an update on our Port Injection Conversion Kit for the N54 engine. This kit in conjunction with our custom code will allow the OEM MSD8X DME to directly control port injec

1,024 likes, 172 comments - nexsysmotorsport on February 22, 2024: "Today we are providing an update on our Port Injection Conversion Kit for the N54 engine. This kit in conjunction with our custom code wi...".

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A wiki coming out shortly to cover q/a on initial product and ordering..

More questions than answers I suspect initially…

If you have a hybrid turbo motor (like me) at 500-550 BHP crank how will port injection impact performance (and efficiency)…in theory it’s got to be worse..but..how much?

 

[Dumaurier7]

I always wonder why this mod is ever considered when the best of both worlds (DI and PI) could be had, I would really like to see more work in integrating both.

 

[pbondar]

There are many reasons (for some folks, obviously not you) why this MAY be attractive…

N54 DI fuel injectors are flaky at best…even Index 12’s seem to go bad..

Cost of the injectors is ridiculous / availability on a long term basis looks suspect

IF you can get similar (maybe better) performance then it’s an option

Maybe you can get more headroom with a choice of injectors..

For sure replacement injectors will be a lot cheaper

Whilst some crave ultimate power and are willing in more ways than one to pay..for many a viable alternative to the current issues whilst retaining stock DME and no extra plumbing is a good thing ..imho..

Obviously the proof of the pudding is in the eating..

Looking forward to seeing how it pans out..

 

[carabuser]

The main driver will be people that don't want to pay $2400 for new injectors from BMW. But if the cost if this kit is higher than a new set of index 12s then it might struggle to return on the R&D investment.

Given all the problem that HPFP overdrive solutions have, there will always be a need for PI when going past 600hp. So maybe someone starting a fresh build with 600hp+ power goals and old injectors would be tempted to skip straight to a full PI setup rather than messing with new index 12s and an overdrive.

 

[jzx_andy]

Hopefully the wiki will shed light on a bunch of things including drawbacks with deleting the di system.

From the one or two people I know who run a di delete, none have mentioned any drawbacks regarding responsiveness/safety at 400-700whp power levels. I think most of the benefits to our DI system lies in fuel economy, which is of low importance to me personally, considering any fuel savings on a fuel-hungry car would be more than negated once I'm up for another HPFP in the near future.

I planned to run a Reflex+ and di+pi, but things like faulty Reflex control boxes, harnesses not being wired up correctly at production, little software niggles and tunes being more complex/costly has made me very hesitant to install the Reflex+ that I've had laying around for ~2 years. I'm seriously considering a PI conversion as a viable alternative to an external PI box at this point and something that can simplify fuel delivery and make tuning easier would be great. Will wait and see how much it costs and how the early adopters go before I take the plunge. That is unless a full kit with fpr etc ends up far cheaper than what I'm expecting, in which case I might sign up to be a guinea pig

 

[Shitrockn54]

I have 2 di delete n54s both on syvecs s7plus but i really am a big fan of keeping di just didn't work out for me. I hear a lot of people just focusing on power of 1 vs the other but...its easy to find published studies of how di and pi complement eachother, the limited injection window of di, how past a certian port injection duty cycle the gains from end of injection timing arent realized etc so ill skip that and ask what i havent seen anyone else ask...... compression ratio is high....top ring gap is about 8thou....stock pistons are already known to break ringlands especially the rear cylinders that's run hotter.......but i havent heard anything or a warnings about how deleting di only allows fuel into the combustion chamber during ivo. But di injects whenever you want, about 20 crnk degrees after evc if i remember right on a factory set up. Injecting on hot resudual exhaust gases left over in the combustion chamber doesn't just help atomization but also has a huge impact on cooling of the combustion chamber. I personally wouldn't look at it as an easy cheap way out of di problems and attempt to make power on an unopened engine

 

[Dumaurier7]

There are many reasons (for some folks, obviously not you) why this MAY be attractive…

N54 DI fuel injectors are flaky at best…even Index 12’s seem to go bad..

Cost of the injectors is ridiculous / availability on a long term basis looks suspect

IF you can get similar (maybe better) performance then it’s an option

Maybe you can get more headroom with a choice of injectors..

For sure replacement injectors will be a lot cheaper

Whilst some crave ultimate power and are willing in more ways than one to pay..for many a viable alternative to the current issues whilst retaining stock DME and no extra plumbing is a good thing ..imho..

Obviously the proof of the pudding is in the eating..

Looking forward to seeing how it pans out

To me it's funny how people choose to mod a BMW among all the brands out there then turn around and complain about cost! as for PI, if you look you will see that many of the TRULY high performance cars civilized enough to be driven as a daily uses both DI and PI, I would have liked to see more development in the area of DI injectors, an aftermarket DI pump or an adapter to allow use of the N55 options and more work to integrate controllers like the Reflex with the DME.

 

[pbondar]

To me it's funny how people choose to mod a BMW among all the brands out there then turn around and complain about cost! as for PI, if you look you will see that many of the TRULY high performance cars civilized enough to be driven as a daily uses both DI and PI, I would have liked to see more development in the area of DI injectors, an aftermarket DI pump or an adapter to allow use of the N55 options and more work to integrate controllers like the Reflex with the DME.

It may be true that some people complain..I guess I must be one of them as I've only spent £35k+ on a £15k car!-

Personally I am more interested in the opportunities it MAY create..hence the discussion..

If there had been an answer to a better DI then given the angst over the injector used I suspect the answer would have been found.

Like all these mods its a question of how far you want to go off piste..for me DI and PI is just a bridge too far..but obviously not for you..

 

[Dumaurier7]

"for me DI and PI is just a bridge too far..but obviously not for you.." I don't understand the reasoning here, you are willing to consider a major modification like this but not one to add 6 additional injectors and a controller? I just don't get it.

 

[pbondar]

"for me DI and PI is just a bridge too far..but obviously not for you.." I don't understand the reasoning here, you are willing to consider a major modification like this but not one to add 6 additional injectors and a controller. I just don't get it.

Many reasons....I'm hoping their solution is fully turnkey..I don't see many turnkey solutions that work off the bat..

My tuner advises me that for what I want ..500-550 bhp on Ron 98 I'm good just on DI

Some things I'm happy twiddling with..this is one I'm not..

 

[6ixInline]

I was wondering if I want to return to DI, will injector plugs cause the injector bores to be out of spec?

 

[desmo11]

Yeah, this one is a bit involved.
Firstoff for just PI one needs to change the injection timing code from SOIT to EOIT (start of injection timing / end of injection timing), I hope NexSys is doing that.
I'd think it might be of great interest to convert to N55 injectors if that is possible rather than removing the DI altogether. This would probably address the N54 injector issues.
The injector targeting in the IG post is simply horrible. I'd hope that there is some work done there.

PI/Di mix CAN be best, however one would do such a thing to manipulate the intake runner temperature for good tuning. Effectively this means that one must move the inject or to a 'shower' position aiming at the trumpet/runner bellmouth. Shifting phase/bias of upper and lower (or DI) injector allows this to be done.

As someone who has done many of such calibration sweeps on both PI upper/lower and DI 'lower' PI upper injected engines, I can tell you that it is F-ing mas importante to get all of this right. Not sure what's up with Reflex issues, but at least the .xdf files I have seen there is no facility to set timing of the PI injectors (and that is a big, big problem). Please correct me if this is wrong.

 

[Wondering_Wobble]

I was actually wondering about how Reflex is handling timing events. In the world of Standalone there is a table normally 3d to adjust this. Such as for cams.

 

[AzNdevil]

i wonder how much power will be lost for people like me running pump fuel only by switching over to PI only....

havent seen anyone mention or discuss on this solution for the pump fuel gang

cant imagine how 10.5 compression ratio with boost will work out......

Yeah, this one is a bit involved.
Firstoff for just PI one needs to change the injection timing code from SOIT to EOIT (start of injection timing / end of injection timing), I hope NexSys is doing that.
I'd think it might be of great interest to convert to N55 injectors if that is possible rather than removing the DI altogether. This would probably address the N54 injector issues.
The injector targeting in the IG post is simply horrible. I'd hope that there is some work done there.

PI/Di mix CAN be best, however one would do such a thing to manipulate the intake runner temperature for good tuning. Effectively this means that one must move the inject or to a 'shower' position aiming at the trumpet/runner bellmouth. Shifting phase/bias of upper and lower (or DI) injector allows this to be done.

As someone who has done many of such calibration sweeps on both PI upper/lower and DI 'lower' PI upper injected engines, I can tell you that it is F-ing mas importante to get all of this right. Not sure what's up with Reflex issues, but at least the .xdf files I have seen there is no facility to set timing of the PI injectors (and that is a big, big problem). Please correct me if this is wrong.

@Jake@MHD mind sharing your expertise on this? thanks

 

[Wondering_Wobble]

i wonder how much power will be lost for people like me running pump fuel only by switching over to PI only....

havent seen anyone mention or discuss on this solution for the pump fuel gang

cant imagine how 10.5 compression ratio with boost will work out......


@Jake@MHD mind sharing your expertise on this? thanks

It comes down to combustion chamber and Quench. Look at Coyote, There 11.0:1 and 2018+ 12.0:1 and can run some decent boost through stock components. Also N54 is 10.2:1 I thought it was higher myself. Alot of factors for sure to consider. On E is vastly different than 91/93

 

[desmo11]

Only real reason to go away from DI is to stuff bigger valves in it. Or perhaps put a pressure sensor in there? lol Is it possible to install N55 injectors in an N54 head? I, for one, have no idea. Seems like it might be possible on the injector driver side?

 

[AzNdevil]

It comes down to combustion chamber and Quench. Look at Coyote, There 11.0:1 and 2018+ 12.0:1 and can run some decent boost through stock components. Also N54 is 10.2:1 I thought it was higher myself. Alot of factors for sure to consider. On E is vastly different than 91/93

true while these do make a difference, but google search says these engines are DI or DI+PI in the newer variants?

either way trying to squeeze power out of pump 91/93 is like gaming in hard mode....

Only real reason to go away from DI is to stuff bigger valves in it. Or perhaps put a pressure sensor in there? lol Is it possible to install N55 injectors in an N54 head? I, for one, have no idea. Seems like it might be possible on the injector driver side?

the only real reason to go away from DI is for third party standalones or find away around injectors that cost more than the car IMO.

injector retrofit is mostly likely impossible/not financially feasible seeing the platform is 10+ years old and injector issues have plagued it for pretty much the whole lifespan of the engine... especially when people work around the issue instead of tackling it head on...

 

[wheela]

I've read the b58 in X7's has both DI and PI. But I think they only add the PI for the intake valve cleaning effect.

 

[wheela]

true while these do make a difference, but google search says these engines are DI or DI+PI in the newer variants?

either way trying to squeeze power out of pump 91/93 is like gaming in hard mode....


the only real reason to go away from DI is for third party standalones or find away around injectors that cost more than the car IMO.

injector retrofit is mostly likely impossible/not financially feasible seeing the platform is 10+ years old and injector issues have plagued it for pretty much the whole lifespan of the engine... especially when people work around the issue instead of tackling it head on...

Yeah, somebody should focus on making the n55 style injectors work. S55 guys have fueling mods now to support up to 1000hp on Di only.

Hell, run an n55 head and just lock valvetronic wide open. You'd also get bigger intake valves to boot.

 

[Wondering_Wobble]

true while these do make a difference, but google search says these engines are DI or DI+PI in the newer variants?

either way trying to squeeze power out of pump 91/93 is like gaming in hard mode....


the only real reason to go away from DI is for third party standalones or find away around injectors that cost more than the car IMO.

injector retrofit is mostly likely impossible/not financially feasible seeing the platform is 10+ years old and injector issues have plagued it for pretty much the whole lifespan of the engine... especially when people work around the issue instead of tackling it head on...

2018+ is DI-PI 11-17 is Only PI. Gen 1 is lower compression than Gen 2 or 3 and 4 is just intake and small bit changes.