New Fuel-It! Stage 2 Bucketless LPFP

[Dave@Fuel-It!]

Hey All,

We've been doing quite a bit of R&D lately, working on a lot of products and finally got everything in for our new Stage 2 bucketless LPFP. In this thread we'll be publishing videos, install procedures, and options.

*Stage 2 Bucketless Standard Version now available here:
http://www.fuel-it.biz/e-series-135i-and-335i-stage-2-bucketless-lpfp-upgrade/

*Update: Stage 2 Bucketless Assembly Video*

To start with, here is a brief video overview of the pump assembly and a side by side comparison with our standard Stage 2 pump.

Most are going to ask why we developed this and what the pros and cons are over our current Stage 2.

There were two reasons for this development:

First, and foremost we wanted to provide more flow and better pressures. As you can see in the video we increased flows by approximately 27%. Second, we wanted to eliminate the need to modify the stock bucket and the hassle of core deposits or DIY projects.

Stage 2 bucketless accomplishes all of those by enabling you to order a true plug and play assembly with no modifications or core exchange and achieve greater flows. This allows you to return to stock at any time should you decide to sell the car or take it to the dealer for service.

Our Stage 2 bucketless assembly will include a standard filter. With this filter in our testing you can run the fuel down to 1/16 of a tank and still be able to do full throttle pulls without fuel starvation issues. We were then able to run the tank down to zero miles showing but hard accelerations would lead to fuel starvation. Normal accelerations and casual driving was not an issue. The cost for this option will be $399.95 and we will begin taking orders on Monday Dec. 19th.

Here is a video testing with the standard filter and the tank showing empty. We did 3 accelerations like this with the tank showing empty before we ran in to fuel starvation issues.

In addition to this option we will have 2 other custom filter options that will be available in the next few weeks.

Option 1
This filter is for those that run their tank in low fuel conditions while still doing hard pulls and full throttle accelerations. Price to be determined once the production run has been completed.

Option 2
This filter will be for those canyon carvers or road course guys (and gals) that do a lot of cornering under low fuel conditions. If you're a track person this will be the filter we'll recommend for you. Price to be determined after the production run is completed. We will have the first batch of these filters in next week.

T-Style/"Option 2" Demonstration:

As always, thank you for your continued support!

 

[R.G.]

How did eliminating the bucket open up 27% more flow?

Can we take a look at what the custom filters will look like that will eliminate the need for a bucket?

 

[V8bait]

Hmm, I like Steve, but I'm not sure how I feel about this one. Actually that's wrong, I don't like the idea of running the pump without a bucket. It's not just WOT pulls, what about corners? What about long corners? What will happen at the track when somebody with this looses power mid corner? Don't mean to be a hater but I'm surprised Steve would endorse something that gets rid of an integral part of the fuel system. I mean, if it's all about fuel, let's just ditch the venturi. Just keep the tank full guys. Might as well delete the filter while you're at it, it's a flow restriction too. Have you guys tested this on a road course?

 

[Steve@Fuel-It!]

Hmm, I like Steve, but I'm not sure how I feel about this one. Actually that's wrong, I don't like the idea of running the pump without a bucket. It's not just WOT pulls, what about corners? What about long corners? What will happen at the track when somebody with this looses power mid corner? Don't mean to be a hater but I'm surprised Steve would endorse something that gets rid of an integral part of the fuel system. I mean, if it's all about fuel, let's just ditch the venturi. Just keep the tank full guys. Might as well delete the filter while you're at it, it's a flow restriction too. Have you guys tested this on a road course?

Did you read all of our posting? Did you check out options 1 and 2 that we listed? This isn't a concept that we just came up with, we've been working on this for quite a while, working with other companies, and we've been testing (and racing) this as well. No offense, but you're jumping the gun a little.

Before jumping to conclusions, you may want to ask more questions to which we will happily provide answers. Some stuff remains proprietary but we'll do our best to give you the answers you seek.

So, yes, we have kept the 1/4 mile guys, half mile guys, and track guys in mind. We don't want anyone running out of fuel.

 

[Steve@Fuel-It!]

How did eliminating the bucket open up 27% more flow?

Can we take a look at what the custom filters will look like that will eliminate the need for a bucket?

Eliminating the bucket did two things. It made it easier for customers to receive their upgraded pump assembly that is plug and play without having to trade in a core, pay for a core, or hack up their stock core. Much easier from a consumer and retailer's stand point. Second, it eliminated the venturi and this results in (as you see) much better flows and higher pressures. There are a lot of Stage 2 customers that their power goals are just out of reach for a standard Stage 2 but are limited by their transmissions. This helps to bridge that gap.

Both filter options are ones that we are having custom made.

Option 1 spans from the back of the tank to the front of the tank (where the pump is located). Frankly, most people won't need this but as we said, if you run your tank low and do WOT runs, this is a good option for you.

Option 2 is a Tee style filter that spans from the front of the tank to the back of the tank as well as to both sides of the tank. This option will really only be needed for those that do hard cornering and a relatively low tank.

Remember guys, this is a saddle tank and it is also designed to flow fuel toward the pump. This isn't our first rodeo, we have been working with this stuff for years now.

For those that are concerned and would rather wait and see people's experience's by all means, order our Stage 2 "DIY". Don't return the core for the $100 refund and you've still only invested $419 for a Stage 2 that has been built, tested, and shipped to you for installation and you can still keep your stock core or if you wish, send that core back to us for the $100 refund.

 

[V8bait]

Deleted. Good luck, I do hope it performs as advertised for those who choose to purchase this.

 

[Flinchy]

I'm having trouble visualising the filter, I always think of them as being post-pump

Is this some mat that sits on the bottom of the tank and the pump sucks through?

I take it you'll be offering higher stages as bucketless eventually?

 

[Steve@Fuel-It!]

Steve@Fuel-It! Did you read all of our posting? Did you check out options 1 and 2 that we listed? This isn't a concept that we just came up with, we've been working on this for quite a while, working with other companies, and we've been testing (and racing) this as well. No offense, but you're jumping the gun a little. Before jumping to conclusions, you may want to ask more questions to which we will happily provide answers. Some stuff remains proprietary but we'll do our best to give you the answers you seek. So, yes, we have kept the 1/4 mile guys and half mile guys in mind. We don't want anyone running out of fuel. [TBODY] [/TBODY] If what you mean by filters are the magnetic pickups screens used mainly to covert old cars to efi, I can tell you they don't work as good as you might think. It's an easy way to get the car converted without major work on the fuel tank, and it helps a lot, but it's still problematic. I did read the entire post and have seen many bucketless systems on hotrods and race cars. Usually, those running them have small fuel tanks for short runs and not for long track days that can burn through 3/4 tank with e85 or daily driving. Apologies for jumping the gun a little maybe but I've never seen this type of system perform as well as bucket systems, even in systems running surge tanks. If you say it works I have no reason to doubt you, but that's a tough pill to swallow. I'll hold my judgement until I hear about then

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

Deleted. Good luck, I do hope it performs as advertised for those who choose to purchase this.

I see what you're talking about and no...that is not what we are referring to at all so it sounds like you'll learn something new. We have a couple here and have been running one for about 9 months but it is an added expense, so for those who need it, it's money well spent. However if you don't need it, it's money you can save or always upgrade to later.

As we said in the original post, we'll be releasing more informational videos in this thread. Before putting more information out on those, we'd like to have received our regular stock first.

 

[R.G.]

Eliminating the bucket did two things. It made it easier for customers to receive their upgraded pump assembly that is plug and play without having to trade in a core, pay for a core, or hack up their stock core. Much easier from a consumer and retailer's stand point. Second, it eliminated the venturi and this results in (as you see) much better flows and higher pressures. There are a lot of Stage 2 customers that their power goals are just out of reach for a standard Stage 2 but are limited by their transmissions. This helps to bridge that gap.

Both filter options are ones that we are having custom made.

Option 1 spans from the back of the tank to the front of the tank (where the pump is located). Frankly, most people won't need this but as we said, if you run your tank low and do WOT runs, this is a good option for you.

Option 2 is a Tee style filter that spans from the front of the tank to the back of the tank as well as to both sides of the tank. This option will really only be needed for those that do hard cornering and a relatively low tank.

Remember guys, this is a saddle tank and it is also designed to flow fuel toward the pump. This isn't our first rodeo, we have been working with this stuff for years now.

For those that are concerned and would rather wait and see people's experience's by all means, order our Stage 2 "DIY". Don't return the core for the $100 refund and you've still only invested $419 for a Stage 2 that has been built, tested, and shipped to you for installation and you can still keep your stock core or if you wish, send that core back to us for the $100 refund.

I understand the convenience aspect for current operations and consumers. Was wondering how the venturi delete increases flow when it is only tied in to the pump outlet and tasked with keeping fuel available for the pump. I'd assume it is pressure gained by capping that T. That is pretty integral part of the system but you guys have had the opportunity to test and are bringing something new to the market, kudos to that.

 

[Steve@Fuel-It!]

I'm having trouble visualising the filter, I always think of them as being post-pump

Is this some mat that sits on the bottom of the tank and the pump sucks through?

I take it you'll be offering higher stages as bucketless eventually?

This is pre-pump, post pump is on the drivers side. Yes, sorry, in our description for V8bait I thought that was made a little more clear when we described how it spanned the tank.

 

[Steve@Fuel-It!]

I understand the convenience aspect for current operations and consumers. Was wondering how the venturi delete increases flow when it is only tied in to the pump outlet and tasked with keeping fuel available for the pump. I'd assume it is pressure gained by capping that T. That is pretty integral part of the system but you guys have had the opportunity to test and are bringing something new to the market, kudos to that.

The venturi by design bleeds off flow, that is why on our Stage 2, 3, and 4, we tune that to consume as little fuel as possible while still being able to perform as needed. There is no "capping the T", all of our fittings are custom made out of billet aluminum, this was designed from the ground up.

Thanks for the kudos.

 

[R.G.]

The venturi by design bleeds off flow, that is why on our Stage 2, 3, and 4, we tune that to consume as little fuel as possible while still being able to perform as needed. There is no "capping the T", all of our fittings are custom made out of billet aluminum, this was designed from the ground up.

Thanks for the kudos.

Sorry if "capping the T" was not scientific enough. How is diverging flow since they are billet? What happens to the return lines?

 

[Steve@Fuel-It!]

Sorry if "capping the T" was not scientific enough. How is diverging flow since they are billet? What happens to the return lines?

No worries, I just wanted to clarify that we aren't modifying existing parts and calling it something new.

Everything else in the tank functions normally, this pump is installed just like you would install the factory pump, it's just bucketless. Regulator return and venturi on the drivers side function just as they always did.

 

[brusk]

I know its pricey but if you were worried about flow and being able to keep a reservoir of fuel couldn't you hookup a performance fuel sock such as the Holley Hydramat?

 

[Steve@Fuel-It!]

I know its pricey but if you were worried about flow and being able to keep a reservoir of fuel couldn't you hookup a performance fuel sock such as the Holley Hydramat?

LOL....yes and it works very well. We're waiting for our first production batch of custom filters to arrive and then we'll do a demonstration video.

 

[V8bait]

I see what you're talking about and no...that is not what we are referring to at all so it sounds like you'll learn something new. We have a couple here and have been running one for about 9 months but it is an added expense, so for those who need it, it's money well spent. However if you don't need it, it's money you can save or always upgrade to later.

As we said in the original post, we'll be releasing more informational videos in this thread. Before putting more information out on those, we'd like to have received our regular stock first.

I was having difficulty wording what I wanted to get across so I just deleted it. If this is something new then I look forward to learning more about it for sure. It's just that removing the bucket with what I've seen is a questionable decision especially when you support it with primarily being easier to make and deliver to people. Being easier isn't always a good reason to do something, but if it works it works. You know me I like data and evidence so in this case time will tell, glad you've already got some testing in.

 

[Steve@Fuel-It!]

Agreed, and if this weren't available, then it's not something we ever would have considered. We ran with an OTS filter for testing for quite a while before taking the plunge to get custom filters made. Then we decided we'd test with a standard filter just to see how it did as we know people are always cost conscious. We were really surprised to see how well it did, thus we decided to add the option as it is cheaper.

Bottom line is people have options. Knowing you have a limitation, and electing to abide by that to save some money...it's a choice people have. If they're rather do it right and get an upgraded filter to fit their needs...they can do that as well.

 

[Cheezy]

Im not hardcore track guy, and very few people want to play on the highway. I want to upgrade my lpfp so I can run e85 when I go to the 1/4mile. this sounds like the most cost effective and easiest option, plus I trust that the professionals who designed it know what they're doing. As I'm understanding this is as plug and play as replacing a stock lpfp with another stock lpfp? If I rarely (almost never) run below 1/4 tank its not necessary for option 1 or 2 filter? Or is that just a good measure for anyone?


This is what I was telling you about @Carl Balzer

 

[Dave@Fuel-It!]

Im not hardcore track guy, and very few people want to play on the highway. I want to upgrade my lpfp so I can run e85 when I go to the 1/4mile. this sounds like the most cost effective and easiest option, plus I trust that the professionals who designed it know what they're doing. As I'm understanding this is as plug and play as replacing a stock lpfp with another stock lpfp? If I rarely (almost never) run below 1/4 tank its not necessary for option 1 or 2 filter? Or is that just a good measure for anyone?


This is what I was telling you about @Carl Balzer

Hi-

This is 100% plug and play. You remove your complete oem LPFP, and drop this in. No modifications needed, or core exchange.

Based on your post/driving habits option 1 or 2 does not sound like a "must" in my opinion for you.

These will be available this coming Monday!!!

 

[Cheezy]

Hi-

This is 100% plug and play. You remove your complete oem LPFP, and drop this in. No modifications needed, or core exchange.

Based on your post/driving habits option 1 or 2 does not sound like a "must" in my opinion for you.

These will be available this coming Monday!!!

Ok this is severely interesting to me, but one question I must ask. If this is cheaper, better, and easier for all parties involved, then why continue to offer your original stage 2 design that utilizes the stock bucket?