N54 injectors 3.3k?!?!

MikeSkillZ

New Member
Sep 3, 2022
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Los Angeles
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07 335i with subjective FBO
To my understanding earlier index injectors are able to be serviced however the outcomes are not favorable. It’s not worth the time or the expense to attempt the service injectors other than index 11’s and 12’s and the two companies, theinjectorshop and injector-rehab, likely won’t attempt to service without full disclosure that the service likely won’t bring the injectors up to operating specs. From my understanding, even the index 11’s success rate of this service is significantly less than index 12’s. Best to start with genuine seimens VDO index 12 injectors. My factory injectors installed on my 2012 bmw 335is are index 12’s and are going strong 110k miles later with no issues that I can tell (I’m full bolt on with stage 2 lpfp running e60, MHD BEF stacked JB4 running the flex BEF).

When I was looking on eBay I looked for index 12 injector “sets” pulled from a 2012 or newer bmw (I don’t know for sure but it seems like bmw stared installing index 12’s at the factory starting in roughly 2012). I emailed the seller to confirm what information they had on the “doner” car. There is also a possibility pulled injectors can be index 12’s from earlier model years but that would be due to an injector replacement and hopefully they would also have this information.

Here is information directly from Scott at theinjectorshop. “And I want to be very crystal clear on what I do and don’t do to the Piezo BMW injectors. The word “remanufactured” is very loosely used when it comes to gasoline injectors, whether they are standard port or GDI (Piezo included). I do not get caught up in using or telling my customers that I am going to rebuild/remanufacture any fuel injector, Piezo’s especially. Piezo injectors CANNOT be torn down and rebuilt like a common rail diesel Piezo injector, they simply cannot. Everyone, including GB, takes them apart as far as they can which is to remove the fuel inlet pipe, the micro filter in the inlet pipe fitting, and the lower compression seals, than sends them to multi stage cleaning. The only parts that can be replaced in/on the injector are the inlet pipe stainless washer, the inlet pipe micro filter, and the lower compression seal (de-couplers are recommended to be replaced when servicing these injectors and they will need to come from BMW, FCP Euro, or equivalent). If there is any failure internal to the injector the injector cannot be serviced, it must be replaced. After proper cleaning Piezo injectors need to be tested properly, and this is really where the rubber hits the road with these injectors. You have obviously been doing your homework as you see that myself and Injector Rehab are using the GDI specific equipment to test at operating pressure against OEM test plans, and YES, the equipment is manufactured by Carbon Zapp which is distributed in the US by GB Remanufacturing. Now by the definitions you quote below, this type of parts replacement and service can be offered as “rebuilt” or “remanufactured” because the necessary parts have been replaced, and they have been tested against an OEM test plan that can validate the injector is performing “to same-as-new, or better, condition and performance”. I just simply don’t play this word game. I used to own a carburetor rebuilding company so I am very comfortable with what it takes to truly rebuild something. My definition of this service IS NOT rebuilding/remanufacturing, it’s cleaning and testing. A very good service as I help customers all the time get these injectors back to normal performance, I just like to call it the way I see it. So the bottom line….if FCP Euro had a GB “remanufactured” injector, it would be the same product/service coming from me, I would just need your cores to do so.
So what I get out of this is, the injectors can only be serviced with serviceable parts(if any are available)...no "crystal recharge" , not a actual full "remanufacture" ...so basically they will replace seals, micro screen, and give them a good cleaning. Am i right in assuming this?
 
Jun 2, 2022
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I can’t say I understand the technical parts of this or have the technical knowledge of what is happening. It appears the piezo stack is not actually degenerating but rather is not capable of operating a the full range (pressure) of operation if they are not used at all frequencies for an extended period of time. I believe the way they describe this is the injector “forgets” how to fire at all the pressure ranges specified when new.

Now weather this is something that is needed or not for our specific injectors, I don’t know. But it seems reasonable if a car is not operated at the entire rev range the injectors may also not be operated at the entire specification frequencies/pressures.

What I do know is that carbonzapp who manufactures the test equipment advertises piezo stack “regeneration” capabilities for some of the equipment they manufacture and sell. Thefuelinjector shop uses this equipment (there is a YouTube video of him using the equipment) and he has confirmed the model of the equipment when I asked about it. It’s also a separate service option costing $10 per injector. I paid for the service and while I don’t know if it works or was even needed for my injector, I went through all the other trouble for this to be a worthwhile thing for me to have done.

There is a technical article about piezo injectors that I have read through but I’d probably need to read it again since it’s so technical (google piezo injectors). It does indicate there is some credence to regeneration. I’ve attached something I found that is a bit easier to digest. Although I can’t speak to the source of this nor the validity of anything that is included.
 

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MikeSkillZ

New Member
Sep 3, 2022
4
0
0
Los Angeles
Ride
07 335i with subjective FBO
I can’t say I understand the technical parts of this or have the technical knowledge of what is happening. It appears the piezo stack is not actually degenerating but rather is not capable of operating a the full range (pressure) of operation if they are not used at all frequencies for an extended period of time. I believe the way they describe this is the injector “forgets” how to fire at all the pressure ranges specified when new.

Now weather this is something that is needed or not for our specific injectors, I don’t know. But it seems reasonable if a car is not operated at the entire rev range the injectors may also not be operated at the entire specification frequencies/pressures.

What I do know is that carbonzapp who manufactures the test equipment advertises piezo stack “regeneration” capabilities for some of the equipment they manufacture and sell. Thefuelinjector shop uses this equipment (there is a YouTube video of him using the equipment) and he has confirmed the model of the equipment when I asked about it. It’s also a separate service option costing $10 per injector. I paid for the service and while I don’t know if it works or was even needed for my injector, I went through all the other trouble for this to be a worthwhile thing for me to have done.

There is a technical article about piezo injectors that I have read through but I’d probably need to read it again since it’s so technical (google piezo injectors). It does indicate there is some credence to regeneration. I’ve attached something I found that is a bit easier to digest. Although I can’t speak to the source of this nor the validity of anything that is included.
Thanks for the info. I've also heard elsewhere (and that's just it, heard) that the n54 injectors cannot be opened for piezo servicing, or "recharging" as knuckleheads on forums call it. Other injectors, maybe...but not ours. My only qualm is that I need new injectors but refuse to pay the 3800 or whatever ot is to buy new ones...and just want the next best option as I'm dramatically increasing power and more or less want to "bulletproof " the engine before testing and tuning. My #6 took a shit and caused my last engine to fail and obviously don't want that to happen again.
 
Jun 2, 2022
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Yep I hear you! That’s exactly it, there aren’t many options short of dropping 3500 on new injectors.

So I wanted to get a good set of backup injectors. I purchased off eBay (roughly 800 for a set of 6 used advertised to be index 12). Asked the seller questions of the source of the injectors…supposedly wrecked car with just short of 20k miles. The year of the car seemed right for them to be index 12 injectors from the factory (2012 BMW X5 - he had 8 but I asked if I could just buy 6). I spent an extra 300ish on the cleaning, testing, regen service, shipping (no way I was willing to risk installing “bad” injectors). Sure enough, one of the injectors had a “short” and was pretty much trash. The eBay seller sent me a replacement (good that he had 8 to start with). With the service I have a report that I can have confidence in the performance of the injectors and would have minimal risk installing and using. Since I have a backup set, I’ll go ahead and Install these and send him my index 12’s that were Installed at the factory as “preventative” maintenance since they have about 110k miles. So all in about 1100 for injectors that should perform as well as new or better. I can do this same process again another 2 times before I hit 3k+ If I ever sell the car or simply set my extra set, I’m sure I could recoup the money as well.

As for the service, I’m not sure how much of theinjectorshop or injector-rehabs business comes from this service. I just don’t see them making an investment in the equipment to get over on people.
 

MikeSkillZ

New Member
Sep 3, 2022
4
0
0
Los Angeles
Ride
07 335i with subjective FBO
Yep I hear you! That’s exactly it, there aren’t many options short of dropping 3500 on new injectors.

So I wanted to get a good set of backup injectors. I purchased off eBay (roughly 800 for a set of 6 used advertised to be index 12). Asked the seller questions of the source of the injectors…supposedly wrecked car with just short of 20k miles. The year of the car seemed right for them to be index 12 injectors from the factory (2012 BMW X5 - he had 8 but I asked if I could just buy 6). I spent an extra 300ish on the cleaning, testing, regen service, shipping (no way I was willing to risk installing “bad” injectors). Sure enough, one of the injectors had a “short” and was pretty much trash. The eBay seller sent me a replacement (good that he had 8 to start with). With the service I have a report that I can have confidence in the performance of the injectors and would have minimal risk installing and using. Since I have a backup set, I’ll go ahead and Install these and send him my index 12’s that were Installed at the factory as “preventative” maintenance since they have about 110k miles. So all in about 1100 for injectors that should perform as well as new or better. I can do this same process again another 2 times before I hit 3k+ If I ever sell the car or simply set my extra set, I’m sure I could recoup the money as well.

As for the service, I’m not sure how much of theinjectorshop or injector-rehabs business comes from this service. I just don’t see them making an investment in the equipment to get over on people.
For sure man. Thanks again! I'm probably going that route myself...or buying some off a junkyard locally and having them serviced by them. I'm just a skeptic most of the time lol. And just want this build to go smoothly.... I've poured my heart and soul into it ( and my wallet lol) making sure I cover all bases for a quality build. I appreciate your input and sharing your experiences.
 
Jun 2, 2022
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My pleasure. I’m happy to share and hope others can use the information to inform their own decisions. I know that I’ve benefited greatly from this community!!

It’s sad that these dang injectors are so expensive…you know it’s a problem when you can consider buying a totaled car or a used engine just for the injectors (not really…but kinda true…lol).

Yes, many of us are passionate about our cars and want to keep them on the road for as long as possible. And I’m grateful for this fact! It keeps the platform alive!!!

Also, forgot to mention. Check out rock auto for the decoupling element. They are 3 bucks on rock auto vs the 10+ everywhere else.

Good luck and hope it all works out!!!
 
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Klos

New Member
Sep 4, 2022
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So, there are non BMW branded index 12 injectors available. I have a set in my car, and they work great. They cost me around $600 for the set. Mine in particular are Siemens branded. The exact ones I bought aren't available currently, but there are others on Amazon for a similar price. Has anyone else tried them and had an issue?
Link?
 

MikeSkillZ

New Member
Sep 3, 2022
4
0
0
Los Angeles
Ride
07 335i with subjective FBO
For the price of injectors now, you could just delete them and go port injection if you wanted.
I just did a bit of digging on this. This seems it wouldn't be plausible for a daily. More or less , race or weekend canyon carving setup. Unless I'm missing some updated info on these DI deletes? Most of what I found were older forum posts.

Maybe you can shed some light?
 

Jeffman

Major
Jan 7, 2017
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Many of the Amazon buyer comments don’t look good. Lots of “junk” “trash” “didn’t work” one star comments about this seller in China. Check the refund policy very carefully. Not clear if you’ll get a refund.
 

Jmantx

Specialist
Mar 27, 2022
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Many of the Amazon buyer comments don’t look good. Lots of “junk” “trash” “didn’t work” one star comments about this seller in China. Check the refund policy very carefully. Not clear if you’ll get a refund.
Yep. Mine aren't available anymore. I've had them for 3 months and almost 10k miles. I need to log again and pull spark plugs though, cause I'm getting boost cuts from my jb4. IDK if it's cheap injectors failing or something else.
 

NoGuru

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Jan 9, 2018
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I just did a bit of digging on this. This seems it wouldn't be plausible for a daily. More or less , race or weekend canyon carving setup. Unless I'm missing some updated info on these DI deletes? Most of what I found were older forum posts.

Maybe you can shed some light?
I don't have any experience doing this but I don't see why it would not be possible. I think it would just take a bit more tuning to get the idle correct but more or less you are just moving the injectors.
 

TheFixer

Sergeant
Aug 16, 2020
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2008 535i
Hmmmm. With injectors going up, along with other parts, those $3k to $4k 335i and 535i clunkers I occasionally see for sale on FB market place will be a good buy for parts.
 

martymil

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With all the spare parts going up in price all I can see is these cars will start to go up in value.

Where i could buy a 135i here for around 15 to 18k now its nearing mid 20's to low 30's.

This will open up a shady injector refurb market to the ones that cant afford it further adding problems to the already unreliable platform.
 
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STE92

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Mar 3, 2017
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I don't have any experience doing this but I don't see why it would not be possible. I think it would just take a bit more tuning to get the idle correct but more or less you are just moving the injectors.
Exactly, I been running Pi for about year 1 1/2.
But it will cost definitely more that 3k.
Standalone 3-4k
Pi IM 600-1k+
Injectors 1-2k
Di plugs/hpfp $700
Harness p & P harness 1-1.5k
Sensors-$300
Tuning-400-500
 
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martymil

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I installed pi on a customers car with reflex+ and for the first time I'm really impressed with it.

So far it works flawlessly and do not see the need for a standalone.

Mind you a standalone makes it so much easier and cleaner as everything is controlled by one ecu and all can be tuned by one
piece of software, makes it safer in my books but lets see how it all goes.
 

STE92

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Reflex is very nice unit but cant run the car on only Pi, eliminating Di with it. Thats what some of the guys talking about, for that you need standalone, big hp guys like Ghassan are making the switch. Really depends on goals. Me personally got tired of dealing years same BS… misfires… hpfp… injectors… inconsistent performance. Ever since I eliminated DI no more of that bs, car works the same every time. Haven’t had a single misfire, crazy.
 

martymil

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The only problem I found is not be able to run a 6hp28 with standalone, you will have to run manual or DCT.

I still have a sweet spot for the old setup as it works perfectly and not too expensive considering the other options available and can easily
handle 1000hp with xhp.

Reflex is the budget solution for now that works for the auto guys, maybe one day mhd will crack the full ecu and solve all the little
issues we have and be able to get rid off di and run pi only.
 
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seb.apprenti

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I allow myself to ask a question which is surely stupid, but what are the differences between the injectors N54 and N55?
would it be possible to manufacture a conversion kit to install the n55 injectors on the N54?