Motiv Flex Fuel vs Bluetooth

b4llistic

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Nov 22, 2018
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EDIT: Thanks your finding and reading my post. Unfortunately, Spoolstreet is no longer a neutral platform where we can have honest discussions on subjects and products freely.
For this reason I have deleted all information I posted on the forums.
 
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1dirty5

New Member
Jun 13, 2020
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I believe someone called the JB4 solution for bieng less ideal as it cannot/doesnot change all values needed for true Flexfuel. For N54 only the Motiv solution is true true Flexfuel.
Can anyone explain further on this?

Even if they are the same, I don't get why anyone would go for the JB4 piggyback solution while true native DME implementation is here.
Maybe BMS can give clarity on this.
 

Jeffman

Captain
Jan 7, 2017
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I also installed the Motive FlexFuel module two years ago around the time it first came out and it has been working fine ever since. I had posted my install notes on the main FlexFuel thread here on Spoolstreet if you’re looking for install help. I even flashed my own custom Flex Fuel map that I developed from my custom 93 octane and my custom E60 maps. This way no guessing what my E% is and what tune to use when I dump another can of VP Racing E98 into the tank with 93 octane. Happy camper ever since.
 
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typedRew

Sergeant
Feb 25, 2019
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I believe someone called the JB4 solution for bieng less ideal as it cannot/doesnot change all values needed for true Flexfuel. For N54 only the Motiv solution is true true Flexfuel.
Can anyone explain further on this?

Even if they are the same, I don't get why anyone would go for the JB4 piggyback solution while true native DME implementation is here.

for one because you do more than ff or meth at the same time

for mhd, you can do meth flow with twisted tuning flow guard OR you can do flex fuel with motiv kit. they both use the same dme logic

with jb4 you can do both and hell throw nitrous on top too
 

Twinz

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Apr 19, 2017
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Some notes on my Jb4 Flex Fuel fitment in no particular order:

1. Fitment was according to the Motive Flex Fuel guide with ECA wires connected directly to the DME.
* Fuel- it ECA 0-5v wire connected to DME pin #16
* Red wire goes to orange power wire at the green connector.
* Black wire goes to ground.
* Ignore wires for pin 25 & 10.
* AIC - 6 wire connections not required.

2. Purchased the MHD Flex Fuel flash module licence to automatically detect the BMS Flex map and apply the blending tables.

3. Flashed one of the BMS BEF Flex test maps received from BMS which was already FF formatted and calibrated.
* There is a specific Flex BEF for the Motiv ECA kit and a specific Flex BEF for the Fuelit ECA kit with the appropriate ECA scaling.
* I ran both ECA kits in my testing and was happy with both but settled with the Fuel - it ECA kit.

4. Checked the ECA voltage, ethanol content, fuel interpoloation values at idle in MHD as per Jyamona's recommendations in his Flex Fuel install thread to ensure the BMS Flex BEF map values correspond accordingly.

5. Final step was to splice into the Fuel- it ECA 0-5v wire that is wired into DME pin #16 and share that signal with the Jb4 (wired to pin #2 in the DB25) to be able to read the ethanol content in the JB4 logs directly from the DME.

6. Then test flipping between the MHD monitor gauge and the Jb4 gauge to ensure the Jb4 communicate the same values as MHD such as ethanol content, HP-F and LP-F etc.

7. Its been a great modification. No need to re-flash BEFs when running pump fuel or e85. The MHD Flex Fuel module automatically adjust the BMS Flex tuning directly and seamlessly based on actual ethanol content.
 
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ansch

Lurker
Sep 23, 2018
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Would someone please advise my options here?
  • Currently I have the fuel-it Bluetooth module (0-5v version I believe), which I only use with the app to monitor content
  • Running MHD only with a E40 custom map
If I want to go with the MHD flex-fuel feature what would I need to do?
  • I'd obviously need to have the flex-fuel custom map produced
  • flex-fuel licence on mhd(?)
  • Without JB4, is my only option to ditch the fuel-it Bluetooth module and get the motiv module instead?
 

fosiacat

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Dec 16, 2017
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late but i'll chime in, i've been running the motiv flex fuel module for a year or two and it's been great. no issues at all. nice to be able to throw a few gallons of E in whenever i happen to see it around.
 

ajm8127

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Jul 16, 2020
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@ansch

Would someone please advise my options here?
  • Currently I have the fuel-it Bluetooth module (0-5v version I believe), which I only use with the app to monitor content
  • Running MHD only with a E40 custom map
If I want to go with the MHD flex-fuel feature what would I need to do?
  • I'd obviously need to have the flex-fuel custom map produced
  • flex-fuel licence on mhd(?)
  • Without JB4, is my only option to ditch the fuel-it Bluetooth module and get the motiv module instead?

If you have to 0-5V version of the Fuel It module, just wire the 0-5 V signal into the DME just like Motiv. There is a map in the DME to change the scaling of the input voltage to ethanol content so it can be whatever you need once you purchase the MHD Flex Fuel license.

I think all the Motiv kit does is convert the sensor's 50-150Hz signal to some voltage range like 0-5 or 0-3 volts. It does the same thing as the 0-5V Fuel It.

Is this not correct?
 

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Sergeant
Platinum Vendor
Jan 23, 2017
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Yes we prefer and sell the Fuel-IT sensor kits and they are fully compatible with the MHD flex logic whether you're running flash only or a JB4+BEF. The difference is the scaling in the flash file.
 

fmorelli

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Aug 11, 2017
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I run dual ECA's - the Fuel-It Continental sensor with Bluetooth-based ECA and the Motiv of course is doing ECA. I've posted this before - to run both, you need to have the Fuel-It analyzer with Raw output (50Hz-150Hz) NOT the 0-5V version. I do not believe the 0-5V output works for feeding the Motiv FlexFuel, though I have not proven it.

Filippo


Screen Shot 2020-07-30 at 1.22.23 PM.png
 

ajm8127

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Jul 16, 2020
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The output of the sensor is a 50-150Hz waveform where the frequency is proportional to ethanol content and the pulse width is proportional to the fuel temperature. You don't need the Fuel It or Motiv boxes, just the sensor, fuel and 5V to power the sensor to get this signal. You could read it with a multimeter that has a frequency function, just subtract 50 from the reading to find ethanol content. I just have the sensor and a gauge I made to display the ethanol content in percent. I made it a number of years ago for a school project.

Both the Fuel It and Motiv products read this 50-150 Hz waveform to figure out the ethanol content. Having the Fuel It ECA pass the 50-150Hz on to the Motiv is the same as connecting the Motiv to the sensor directly. I am 99.9% sure an analog 0-5V input to the Motiv ECA would not work.

Do you just want to be able to see the ethanol content with your phone/tablet while also providing flex fuel functionality to your DME?
 

ansch

Lurker
Sep 23, 2018
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E82 135i SGM
Yes we prefer and sell the Fuel-IT sensor kits and they are fully compatible with the MHD flex logic whether you're running flash only or a JB4+BEF. The difference is the scaling in the flash file.
That's what I'm hoping to do. To use the fuel-it 0-5V sensor straight into the ECU and tune MHD flash only without having to buy new hardware. Is that possible? or do I need to get the motiv box still?
 

ansch

Lurker
Sep 23, 2018
13
2
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E82 135i SGM
The output of the sensor is a 50-150Hz waveform where the frequency is proportional to ethanol content and the pulse width is proportional to the fuel temperature. You don't need the Fuel It or Motiv boxes, just the sensor, fuel and 5V to power the sensor to get this signal. You could read it with a multimeter that has a frequency function, just subtract 50 from the reading to find ethanol content. I just have the sensor and a gauge I made to display the ethanol content in percent. I made it a number of years ago for a school project.

Both the Fuel It and Motiv products read this 50-150 Hz waveform to figure out the ethanol content. Having the Fuel It ECA pass the 50-150Hz on to the Motiv is the same as connecting the Motiv to the sensor directly. I am 99.9% sure an analog 0-5V input to the Motiv ECA would not work.

Do you just want to be able to see the ethanol content with your phone/tablet while also providing flex fuel functionality to your DME?

If the fuel-it 0-5v signal can be plugged directly into the dme just like the motiv box, then which pin does it go into? The motiv box has three wires that goes into the dme, on top of the +12v and ground.
 

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Sergeant
Platinum Vendor
Jan 23, 2017
460
372
25
If the fuel-it 0-5v signal can be plugged directly into the dme just like the motiv box, then which pin does it go into? The motiv box has three wires that goes into the dme, on top of the +12v and ground.

The same DTML pin. On the small black connector IIRC. For Motiv the other wires are just power and ground for the unit itself, and an optional tap to read boost.
 
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tortue-xTz

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Jul 19, 2020
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Hi guys,
I'm more or less in the same boat.
I've installled a complete Motiv Kit ( ECA + ethanol sensor + short engine bay kit), but ECA Voltage is reading 4.32V constantly, so Ethanol Content is pegged at 100%.
If i can use a fuel-it solution and plug it in the DME #16 pin in conjunction with MHD FlexFuel maps, it could avoid a lot of hassle !
 

NoGuru

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Jan 9, 2018
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Hi guys,
I'm more or less in the same boat.
I've installled a complete Motiv Kit ( ECA + ethanol sensor + short engine bay kit), but ECA Voltage is reading 4.32V constantly, so Ethanol Content is pegged at 100%.
If i can use a fuel-it solution and plug it in the DME #16 pin in conjunction with MHD FlexFuel maps, it could avoid a lot of hassle !
So I had this happen with my FF kit and never was able to fix it. Bought a Fuel-IT BT analyzer and it worked great for a few weeks and stopped sending the information.
Before anyone says it is the wiring connection, I am very good with electrical connections. I have been building racing Drones for years.

I will be uninstalling the kit this weekend and reinstalling it to confirm it is not the install.
 

tortue-xTz

Lurker
Jul 19, 2020
11
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So MHD is capable of working with 0-5V input range from the fuel-it ECA instead of the 0.5-3V range of the Motiv ECA ?
Same here about wiring, i studied electronics and worked as electrician in industrial applications for more than 15 years...
 

ansch

Lurker
Sep 23, 2018
13
2
0
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E82 135i SGM
So MHD is capable of working with 0-5V input range from the fuel-it ECA instead of the 0.5-3V range of the Motiv ECA ?
Same here about wiring, i studied electronics and worked as electrician in industrial applications for more than 15 years...
If you're custom-tuned then you can adjust the voltage to ethanol content to suit, but the OTS mhd maps would be tuned specifically on the motiv I'd assume and there's no way to adjust it at flash time.