Misfire issues (with precision coils)

Ztuck45

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May 16, 2017
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2010 335i
So I need some help. I've been having random misfires that I believe is originating from my spark plugs.

I'm running the precision ignition system on e50 and usually 17-20psi. I had been using NGK 95770 gapped to .022 which worked fine for a while but I started getting random misfires under load on one cylinder at a time. When I pull the plugs this is what it looks like. (Picture)

I recently switched to Autolite XP 5682 gapped to .022 as well. These actually felt better than the NGK's power-wise but literally the same day I got a cylinder 6 misfire. I havnt pulled this plug to inspect it yet.

At this point I'm not sure what the problem is.

IMG_2863.JPG
 
Jun 8, 2017
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Magnolia Texas
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Your two theories are sound, though I would nit-pick the choice of words of "big vacuum leak". I would specify that a big leak will be next to impossible to light, though a smaller one (vacuum leak induced lean condition in a cylinder) that would likely not light on a single spark could possibly get going with a multi-spark ignition. That I could see. I chased a late model Chrysler Hemi misfire around the entire power train only to eventually discover it was a hairline crack in the intake port of the head that was sucking from the crankcase. It only missed at full idle and that was a super small leak. It didn't help us that the PCM would disable the injector until the next restart within a minute if you idled it due to constant misfiring. A "big" vacuum leak, and maybe any vacuum leak is big in this instance, would miss almost at any load multi-spark or not.

The spark going from the carbon track back to the gap as charge pressure drops is excellent tuning logic in my opinion. That's the kind of things that keeps me up at night when I have a tough one in the shop.
 
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Jun 8, 2017
18
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Magnolia Texas
www.magnoliaautomotive.com
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All kinds'a stuff
I just realized I should explain the last comment as there may be some who don't understand why that is so. Sparks in an internal combustion engine have to jump an air gap. Air is an excellent electrical insulator, so electricity doesn't want to travel through it unless it has no other choice (or just can't at that voltage level). So we build a low resistance well insulated path that leaves the spark plugs air gap as the ignition voltage's only choice, at least that's the plan. When the planned path or insulation fail the voltage may find a easier way to get to ground or just never get there at all. That being said when a spark ignition engine is running at idle or light load its intake is throttled and therefore at a lower air pressure than ambient air pressure. So even with compression the amount of air in the actual plug gap may be less resistant to a spark than say a leaky boot, insulator, or cable path in the outside air, or a just starting carbon track from a broken insulator that's still a longer distance from the shell than the gap. But as soon as the throttle is opened and charge pressure rises, much less the charge is boosted above atmospheric, with the rise in charge pressure more air molecules are crammed in the spark plug gap. At this point the spark can't get through there as easy as before and as the voltage rises suddenly the failed insulation point with what ever amount of standard pressure air in it's "gap" to ground is the easier path. This is what happens when an engine runs smooth at lower loads but starts to miss as the charge pressure is increased.

In Justin's theory where with multi-spark may misfire on the first strike but ignite the charge on one of the subsequent sparks he's saying that as the piston starts retracting from top dead center (when the charge pressure is it's highest) and the spark went another direction at some point the charge pressure drops to the point where now the actual plug gap is the easiest path to ground again the gets the spark. Therefore igniting the mixture before it's too late. A single spark system would only fire at the first desired crankshaft degree point for maximum efficiency when the charge pressure was too high to over come in the weak system.

By the way Dieletric grease is a better insulator than air and air is one of the things I use the grease to seal the system from.

Justin, I have a question for you, do you know how many crank degrees the BMW DME multi-fires across? I've seen MSD list this in their literature before but I haven't read much on the DME.

Vernon
 

V8bait

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Nov 2, 2016
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Justin, I have a question for you, do you know how many crank degrees the BMW DME multi-fires across? I've seen MSD list this in their literature before but I haven't read much on the DME.

Vernon

Great description, and you're right about the vacuum leak size lol. Perspective is important! As for the DME it's not so much a degree thing as a time thing. There are tables (undefined) that characterize the spark duration vs dwell vs rpm, around a dozen of them. These characterize multispark timing (so to speak) and dwell. In most multispark systems, you'll spark every ~ 3-4ms (including a short dwell period), so you can calculate crank angles based on rpm. At mid-low rpm this isn't a lot (10 degrees or so?) but would still kill a lot of the power in that cycle, but as rpm increases it can be a LOT of crank angle. I don't recall exactly where multispark ends since i was happy disabling it but I believe it's around 5000rpm. It's difficult to visualize on these cars even with a scope.

Edit- fixed some info reading through
 
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John6857

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Aug 25, 2017
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2007 E90 335i 6MT
Is this possible with stock coils and NGK 95770? i am not getting a misfire code but my cold start pops and i have done carbon blasting index 12s and new plugs within 1k miles. Is coating the coils in the grease worth a shot?
 

John6857

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Aug 25, 2017
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2007 E90 335i 6MT
Does it have any misfiring or pops after cold start? The catalyst warm up strategy can cause popping noise, especially with a non-stock exhaust system. If it's fine after the first minute or so then it's fine.
Vernon
No popping after cold starts. I have no cats and stock muffler and a decent amount of wastegate rattle
 
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