meth injection

Rob09msport

Major
Oct 28, 2017
1,928
661
0
Monroe CT
Ride
09 335i msport le mans 18 x5
I have read every thread on meth injection and have found so many opinions on jb4 vs aquamist for the best controller some say jb4 is better while some say its reactive and no flow sensor then some say just go with aem cause it can bleed boost. Basically I want to know what systems can actually detect clog or leak and cut timing or limit or cut boost also I am curious how the pump controls work as I read the aem can run the pump full time in by pass mode or can run on demand if you buy a solenoid kit I wanted to know what reaction time is like with the on demand and last question is how many psi is really nec some say 200 or more but then bms and few other kits are 160 and have good feedback. I am flash only fbo, stage 2 lpfp, inlets and outlets and bl coils I am trying to piece together an affordable direct port setup as I'm moving to a state without e85 and have to drop to a 93 octane tune thanks in advance.
 
Mar 14, 2017
418
346
0
Minot, ND
Ride
2010 135i
If you’re looking for a good direct port meth setup I’m doing a group buy for aluminum intake manifolds with meth bungs and fuel injector ports in each runner. And pro meth has a kit for the N54 that would include the lines and nozzles. The GB is on BMW 335i Mods on Facebook if you want to check it out. Or just PM me if you want any info.
 

Twisted Tuning

Lieutenant
Platinum Vendor
Oct 25, 2016
962
877
0
New York
www.twistedtuning.com
Ride
N54 and N55 Cars
I have read every thread on meth injection and have found so many opinions on jb4 vs aquamist for the best controller some say jb4 is better while some say its reactive and no flow sensor then some say just go with aem cause it can bleed boost. Basically I want to know what systems can actually detect clog or leak and cut timing or limit or cut boost also I am curious how the pump controls work as I read the aem can run the pump full time in by pass mode or can run on demand if you buy a solenoid kit I wanted to know what reaction time is like with the on demand and last question is how many psi is really nec some say 200 or more but then bms and few other kits are 160 and have good feedback. I am flash only fbo, stage 2 lpfp, inlets and outlets and bl coils I am trying to piece together an affordable direct port setup as I'm moving to a state without e85 and have to drop to a 93 octane tune thanks in advance.


NO, NONE, NEITHER, or anything else that means no or none can any Meth controller on the market detect a single individual meth nozzle clog. The base tirigger/failsafe of most Meth controllers are Pump amperage readings. Which in most scenarios the controllers are programmed with base amperage mapping for whatever pump is sold with the kit. So if you deviate from that specific pump. The Amperage output curve by flow may be vastly different and not work correctly to trigger the failsafe.

The Pump amperage method relies on low amperage meaning you are out of meth or there is a break in the feed like after the pump. and high amperage means there is a short, or a flow blockage. Flow blockage meaning anything from a line to a clogged nozzle to a none working solenoid.

Running a pump in Bypass mode is a bit of sneaky marketing. as most pumps will run in bypass mode automatically once head pressure meets the pressure bypass limits. So realistically any controller can do that IF it runs the pump at full tilt when ever its on.

Accepted Optimal pressure is 120-130psi through the nozzles. More is better, and is better for atomization. But 120-130psi is acceptable. Kits can be rated at 200-300psi, but they almost never run at that and the pressure delta depends on the size of the nozzles used and if the pump can keep the pressure up behind the nozzle(s).

the best standalone controllers on the market are as follows (in No real order)

1. Torqbyte/Evolve MC1
2. Aquamist HFS4
3. Snow Performance Stage 3

Those controllers can all have Flow sensors added and all can cut boost as a failsafe. However depending on your setup the Torqbyte/Evolve MC1 can also control boost solenoids so it can actually adjust boost pressure by WGDC or just simply cut boost altogether. Also, it can take other inputs like throttle, boost, afr, injector duty cycle and etc to help act as failsafe or calibration media. The other two have injector duty cycle and boost iirc.

The JB4 since you mentioned it, also runs off of pump amperage output to determine. And can also have a flow sensor added AFAIK. But also just cuts boost if there is an issue detected. So really no difference in failsafe. They call it "Switching to Safety Map". But its just dropping boost. But with the JB4, you're also stuck with its inferior logging and other nuances.

Being flash only, you have many options to incorporate into your meth system. AEM units works and are fairly simple if you're on a budget or just want something simple. Hopefully that helps.

My Direct port meth kits run off the Torqbyte/MC1 if it means anything to you.
 
Mar 14, 2017
418
346
0
Minot, ND
Ride
2010 135i
Thanks for all that knowledge Justin. I’m sure if anyone knows port meth or nitrous its you. So regarding the standalone controllers and what you mentioned about flash only, if the car has a stacked JB4 with a backend are you saying that the standalone wont be an effective failsafe since the JB4 is the boost controller?
 

Twisted Tuning

Lieutenant
Platinum Vendor
Oct 25, 2016
962
877
0
New York
www.twistedtuning.com
Ride
N54 and N55 Cars
Thanks for all that knowledge Justin. I’m sure if anyone knows port meth or nitrous its you. So regarding the standalone controllers and what you mentioned about flash only, if the car has a stacked JB4 with a backend are you saying that the standalone wont be an effective failsafe since the JB4 is the boost controller?

if you have the JB4, just use the JB4. Adding the the standalone would not really make sense unless you were removing the JB4. But, if by chance you did want to do that. the Standalone still could kill boost if wired up right.

I personally would only do one or the other though.
 

Rob09msport

Major
Oct 28, 2017
1,928
661
0
Monroe CT
Ride
09 335i msport le mans 18 x5
Awesome response one question though your controller would be able to adjust instead of just cutting boost but would that trigger limp mode or would it have some way of hiding the under boost from the dme
 
Mar 14, 2017
418
346
0
Minot, ND
Ride
2010 135i
Yes the multiple layers get very confusing. So a followup question, have you found a power level where the high pressure fuel system and port methanol systems are maxed out and supplemental pump fuel is needed? For situations where E85 isn’t available. I might be leaving the country this next year and wont have E85 access like I do now. I’m trying to research my limits on running DI pump gas only with port meth vs DI and PI pump gas with port meth.
 

Rob09msport

Major
Oct 28, 2017
1,928
661
0
Monroe CT
Ride
09 335i msport le mans 18 x5
I've had horrible luck with shops I am 2 hrs from orange hr half from dutchess but would deff come to you if you do install work
 

Rob09msport

Major
Oct 28, 2017
1,928
661
0
Monroe CT
Ride
09 335i msport le mans 18 x5
NO, NONE, NEITHER, or anything else that means no or none can any Meth controller on the market detect a single individual meth nozzle clog. The base tirigger/failsafe of most Meth controllers are Pump amperage readings. Which in most scenarios the controllers are programmed with base amperage mapping for whatever pump is sold with the kit. So if you deviate from that specific pump. The Amperage output curve by flow may be vastly different and not work correctly to trigger the failsafe.

The Pump amperage method relies on low amperage meaning you are out of meth or there is a break in the feed like after the pump. and high amperage means there is a short, or a flow blockage. Flow blockage meaning anything from a line to a clogged nozzle to a none working solenoid.

Running a pump in Bypass mode is a bit of sneaky marketing. as most pumps will run in bypass mode automatically once head pressure meets the pressure bypass limits. So realistically any controller can do that IF it runs the pump at full tilt when ever its on.

Accepted Optimal pressure is 120-130psi through the nozzles. More is better, and is better for atomization. But 120-130psi is acceptable. Kits can be rated at 200-300psi, but they almost never run at that and the pressure delta depends on the size of the nozzles used and if the pump can keep the pressure up behind the nozzle(s).

the best standalone controllers on the market are as follows (in No real order)

1. Torqbyte/Evolve MC1
2. Aquamist HFS4
3. Snow Performance Stage 3

Those controllers can all have Flow sensors added and all can cut boost as a failsafe. However depending on your setup the Torqbyte/Evolve MC1 can also control boost solenoids so it can actually adjust boost pressure by WGDC or just simply cut boost altogether. Also, it can take other inputs like throttle, boost, afr, injector duty cycle and etc to help act as failsafe or calibration media. The other two have injector duty cycle and boost iirc.

The JB4 since you mentioned it, also runs off of pump amperage output to determine. And can also have a flow sensor added AFAIK. But also just cuts boost if there is an issue detected. So really no difference in failsafe. They call it "Switching to Safety Map". But its just dropping boost. But with the JB4, you're also stuck with its inferior logging and other nuances.

Being flash only, you have many options to incorporate into your meth system. AEM units works and are fairly simple if you're on a budget or just want something simple. Hopefully that helps.

My Direct port meth kits run off the Torqbyte/MC1 if it means anything to you.
Wanted to follow up as I am finally doing my meth kit and am interested in your kit but I am curious about the bleeding boost and if it triggers limp mode and also how idc would be tapped is it can bus or some other method ? Would I be able to use the mc1 controller for boost gauge output and ,or to manipulate iat the dme sees so as to trigger timing pull in non flow event instead of a boost cut and Last if I start with the charge pipe kit then upgrade to the plate later if only have 2 fittings where would I tap the 4 bar sensor the kit comes with.