Introducing the PFS POD!

langsbr

Captain
Apr 5, 2017
1,215
700
0
Ride
07 335i 6MT e90
We did significant vibe testing, and designed the POD to be smooth running, the big difference being the helical cut gears -it's quiet and balanced. My main concern would be if the brace wasn't put on nice and tight, on the other hand the one cracked issue did have 174k miles on it -would be premature to assume much of anything about it at this juncture. We'll keep an eye on it but this doesn't invalidate previous testing -if we see more of an issue of course we'll address but at this point there is no reason to be concerned.
Why is the use of helical cut gears being claimed to be a difference? Is this just advertising fluffery? The spool helix also uses helical cut gears according to spool.

Interesting how when the first plate broke with a helix it was the end of the world, but with the same thing happening to the POD, it's not something to worry about.

I don't think anyone that is considering a POD should use a billet plate since you were assured there was no need for one.
 

langsbr

Captain
Apr 5, 2017
1,215
700
0
Ride
07 335i 6MT e90
Sarcasm? Had a bad day? No one should run a billet plate? Please continue as I'm learning a lot here.

Interestingly, your sarcasm is easy to spot. I would normally say you're one of the more respected members, but your inherent bias and blind spot towards PFS is a bit funny.

Yes, no sarcasm - no one should run a billet plate if you're using the PFS POD. Why? Because you were all told how much "better" this "properly designed" piece was than the hunk o crap, made by bozos that don't know what geometry is at Spool.

Let's recap a bit, shall we?


No need for a billet plate because it's inherently balanced.

We haven't seen any issues, probably because of the inherent balance of the unit and the brace being included in the kit from day 1.

This one is properly balanced and not 'junk' in Martymil's eyes.

Your missing that this is a properly engineered and balanced solution vs who the hell knows.

I ran it for 5k with no issues all hard driven, I will be running it again in the track car with no hesitation.

Look anything can fail even the double barrel has in the past which I had no issues with personally.

The only other way is pi and stand alone like syvecs, pick your poison.

Once again, we're reminded how much 'better' this is because it uses helicul cut gears and don't vibrate 'near as much.' Near as much as what? Straight cut gears? What is that comparing against then because Spool uses helical cut gears.

The POD uses helical cut gears and is internally balanced. Helical gears are smoother, quieter, and don't vibrate anywhere near as much at higher speeds. They cost more to design and use, but are appropriate for this end use. The brace, which is part of the original design and not an after thought, was designed to stabilize the whole structure appropriately. Keep in mind the POD is quiet.

Here's that robust design again that means you don't need a billet plate, along with a knock against straight cut gears.

We approached the problem via a different mechanism; stop needless vibration through a robust design that's smoother, and a properly designed brace (that's far away from knock sensors).

Straight cut gears are cheap, and while awesome on dog boxes, they're not as strong and for damned sure not as quiet. Bad choice IMO. Avoid those and you can side step a slew of issues -for a price.

Chris

I can't figure out if everyone is just a sucker for PFS or if Chris is some master marketer. The number of straw man arguments regarding using helical cut gears instead of straight cut gears is just funny.

The question now is - will PFS release their own billet plate, tell people to run the Spool plate, or tell you you don't even need to worry about it because it's so much better of a design?

I have nothing against PFS or Chris, I just dislike phony marketing, or claiming your prduct is inherently better while it appears at least initially to be susceptible to the same issues as the competition.
 

fmorelli

Major General
Staff member
Aug 11, 2017
3,368
3,156
0
54
Virginia
Ride
E89 Z4 35i, F10 535d
Interestingly, your sarcasm is easy to spot. I would normally say you're one of the more respected members, but your inherent bias and blind spot towards PFS is a bit funny.
You would normally say that I'm "more respected" but your attitude is now in the cross sights, so its harder to swallow your own post so my "respect" now has to become "bias" so you can avoid the point and defend yourself.

My only bias was to why you'd come out of a corner and start throwing stones. Not the questions, but the throwing stones. That's what I addressed, no more and no less. But please, feel free to continue to ignore your attitude while I point out that is the only thing I addressed.
I have nothing against PFS or Chris, I just dislike phony marketing, or claiming your prduct is inherently better while it appears at least initially to be susceptible to the same issues as the competition.
Yes. And I have nothing against your questions, I just dislike people that prick post.
 
  • Funny
Reactions: langsbr

langsbr

Captain
Apr 5, 2017
1,215
700
0
Ride
07 335i 6MT e90
You would normally say that I'm "more respected" but your attitude is now in the cross sights, so its harder to swallow your own post so my "respect" now has to become "bias" so you can avoid the point and defend yourself.

My only bias was to why you'd come out of a corner and start throwing stones. Not the questions, but the throwing stones. That's what I addressed, no more and no less. But please, feel free to continue to ignore your attitude while I point out that is the only thing I addressed.

Yes. And I have nothing against your questions, I just dislike people that prick post.

Nice deflection and not acknowledging any of the issues I brought forth. You call it prick posting, shouldn't you be on Facebook now?

All I did was point out that everyone was assured how much of a better product this was and that you have no need for the 'bandaid' that Spool had. We now have the SAME issue with the POD, and you don't even acknowledge it. You simply start lobbing insults. Not too impartial here I see.
 

fmorelli

Major General
Staff member
Aug 11, 2017
3,368
3,156
0
54
Virginia
Ride
E89 Z4 35i, F10 535d
There is a reading comprehension problem here. Note I said, the questions are good. Said it twice. Did I not?

But your attitude sucks. Yes this is about you not the questions.
Why is the use of helical cut gears being claimed to be a difference? Is this just advertising fluffery? The spool helix also uses helical cut gears according to spool.
Good first question. I'd like to know that too. But instead of maybe asking a further question, for example, "are the gears designed in some different way, since spool also uses helical gears?" ... you go on to imply that likely this is "advertising fluffery" which is another way of saying the vendor is bullshitting us. That's where you decided to go with it, rather than delve in to the facts and find out more.

You started with the intention of disparaging parties. That was read loud and clear. That's what I'm addressing.

Interesting how when the first plate broke with a helix it was the end of the world, but with the same thing happening to the POD, it's not something to worry about.
I've seen the Helix vibrate on some cars. Scary stuff. But nonetheless, this statement is another passive aggressive comment. "interesting ... it's not something to worry about." So we're all too stupid here, no issue, move on, but you've got us covered?

We've seen one failure, and we've not seen any reports of the vibrations exhibited in many situations I'm directly aware of, with the Helix. Will the POD go the same way? Dunno ... early indications seem to not point in that direction. But time will bear that out.

I don't think anyone that is considering a POD should use a billet plate since you were assured there was no need for one.
We were not assured we didn't need one. Hence my original point that this was sarcasm, and you are instructing the owners on how they should not need this. Here's what Chris said:

We did significant vibe testing, and designed the POD to be smooth running, the big difference being the helical cut gears -it's quiet and balanced. My main concern would be if the brace wasn't put on nice and tight, on the other hand the one cracked issue did have 174k miles on it -would be premature to assume much of anything about it at this juncture. We'll keep an eye on it but this doesn't invalidate previous testing -if we see more of an issue of course we'll address but at this point there is no reason to be concerned.
Like I said ... I like the question on helical gears. But since your first question in the initial response, you came at this with the attitude of dissing the vendor, dissing Marty, and basically imply the customers are fools. Clear as day. That's why I have responded.
 

langsbr

Captain
Apr 5, 2017
1,215
700
0
Ride
07 335i 6MT e90
There is a reading comprehension problem here. Note I said, the questions are good. Said it twice. Did I not?

My apologies. I only saw where you asked if I was being sarcastic and was having a bad day, and then said you were learning a lot. I did not see any note that the questions were good. It's difficult to glean tone from the internet, and I figured you were merely being sarcastic yourself about learning anything.


But your attitude sucks. Yes this is about you not the questions.

Good first question. I'd like to know that too. But instead of maybe asking a further question, for example, "are the gears designed in some different way, since spool also uses helical gears?" ... you go on to imply that likely this is "advertising fluffery" which is another way of saying the vendor is bullshitting us. That's where you decided to go with it, rather than delve in to the facts and find out more.

You started with the intention of disparaging parties. That was read loud and clear. That's what I'm addressing.

I disagree about my attitude, and one could infer from PFS post where they state, "Straight cut gears are cheap, and while awesome on dog boxes, they're not as strong and for damned sure not as quiet. Bad choice IMO. Avoid those and you can side step a slew of issues -for a price." That statement in and of itself at a minimum is insinuating that the competition is using straight cut gears and 'cheaping out.'

Also, Chris has stated multiple times that he has never seen a Helix. I'll believe him because I choose to, but at the same time, that's poor business for NOT examining the competition. He's backed into a corner now - he's said he's never seen one, but also that it was a bad choice to use straight cut gears. Was the original statement of never seeing one a lie? If he has, and found that it doesn't use helical cut gears as Spool claims, then that's something to tout as the competition, but right now it rings a bit hollow.


I've seen the Helix vibrate on some cars. Scary stuff. But nonetheless, this statement is another passive aggressive comment. "interesting ... it's not something to worry about." So we're all too stupid here, no issue, move on, but you've got us covered?

I didn't say that it wasn't something to worry about - PFS did, by saying originally that it wasn't necessary because of how much better their design is.

We've seen one failure, and we've not seen any reports of the vibrations exhibited in many situations I'm directly aware of, with the Helix. Will the POD go the same way? Dunno ... early indications seem to not point in that direction. But time will bear that out.

This is what I find interesting. After the first Helix had an issue, the thread devolved into how bad Spool was, it was junk, and they are trying to bandaid it. You just said that the early indications of the PFS POD won't have the same issues, despite being presented with that exact scenario. Why are you so confident that the POD is fine despite now experiencing the same issue that the Helix has had?

We were not assured we didn't need one. Hence my original point that this was sarcasm, and you are instructing the owners on how they should not need this. Here's what Chris said:


Like I said ... I like the question on helical gears. But since your first question in the initial response, you came at this with the attitude of dissing the vendor, dissing Marty, and basically imply the customers are fools. Clear as day. That's why I have responded.

I like how my questioning of this product, which is having the EXACT same result as the competition is considered dissing of the vendor. You can say Chris gave himself an 'out' with regards to the "we'll keep an eye on it" part, but you casually dismiss the multiple claims of how much better this part is than the Spool, and how because its so much better, this issue won't happen.

Spool even said that there are various casting issues in the OEM plate that could have contributed to the problem, but they took the initiative to include the billet plate, and it was still ridiculed as a bandaid.

So tell me, do you think you need a billet plate or is the POD fine as is? Let's remove the marketing. Maybe Chris will tell us how the POD is better without resorting to claims that have no basis. He's said it's a "bespoke design." So is the Helix! It's internally balanced. Is the Helix not? If the claim is that it is not, did Spool say that it is not? Or is PFS just claiming that theirs is better because it's balanced without knowing if the Helix is? To me, these are just 2 very similar products, neither of which is 'better' than the other. I would gladly run either one on my car and am glad that we have the option of the two.
 
  • Like
Reactions: RNM

fmorelli

Major General
Staff member
Aug 11, 2017
3,368
3,156
0
54
Virginia
Ride
E89 Z4 35i, F10 535d
Ok ... so let's maybe agree to ignore the whole dialog you and I have had on this, and start from the beginning? Can you frame some questions you might have? And I'm not going to make you do all the work, I'll try to help. Do you want to focus on "claims" that are made by PFS? By others? Or do you want to focus on what is the same (and maybe also what is different) from what's gone on with the Helix vs the POD? Or what the specific design differences may be that are believed to create a different outcome? Do you have specific questions for Chris, based on his comments on this thread?

Here's my wild-ass guess. And I'll precursor by saying there is 1 example in the wild to my knowledge, and I think Chris' comment is actually quite on point: "we'll keep an eye on it." My guess - installation issues could cause a problem OR the weight of the unit (even with support) may be an issue. I've often wondered about weight relative to the S55 dual HPFP hanging there. I actually have an S55 setup here and could figure out weight/length, though not sure what that might tell us. But a largely non vibrating OD with added weight and maybe still some vibration, could eventually cause an issue OR see issues with plates that are ... let's say ... minimum spec in some way - either the plate casting not so great, or it is fatigued over use (mileage). Even Chris alluded to this, somewhat, by noting it was a high mileage car where the failure occurred.

The Helix situations I'm aware of directly, which are a handful at most, the vibration is pretty OMG evident. I have no direct idea why. At the end of the day, time seems to bear out on most of this stuff. The frustrating part in the Helix situation is it was a great idea. I sold my single barrel (which I never installed) in hopes of going to the Helix. I didn't want to install the single barrel on the Z4 as it was just an undertaking I was not excited about. It sucked with the Helix vibration reports started coming in, and then the breaks/fixes/breaks/fixes/breaks cycle. You seem to have a good bit of precision on the history of this, so you may recall on the first Helix failure reports, I was optimistically saying it should have a support. Marty was far more adamant about the problem, in spite of the fact that he really wanted that solution to work (we all did). Let me be more specific: I noted a support to help quell the vibration - vibration was a clear issue from the start. Marty thought it was a really bad idea to transfer that vibration close to the knock sensors (where the bracket would most likely mount), and he also felt the root cause was not being addressed. We even got into a tiff about the whole thing. I was optimistic then, because I wanted it to work, and it seemed to me that Spool was on it. But the point was - the vibration was a clear issue right from the get go when failures started showing up. With the single example we have here, vibration does not seem to be front and center.

One other note - since this is the PFS product announcement thread, I will likely pull this discussion into a new N54 thread, so we can carry on.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: seb.apprenti

rev210

Corporal
Feb 24, 2019
171
73
50
Ride
335i - 08 Coupe .
Do we know of any instances of the vacume plate crack on standard non overdrive equipped vehicles?
 

Torgus

Major
Nov 6, 2016
1,927
1,394
0
Boston
Ride
ACF 6466 E92 + METH
Do we know of any instances of the vacume plate crack on standard non overdrive equipped vehicles?

I have never heard about it and I have been on this platform for way too long.

Not that I would overdrive a HPFP as I think it's stupid and you basically 'need' PI on this platform(too make decent power on full E85, mixes are annoying and unreliable imo). BUT, if I was, I would sure have that billet vac plate. Regardless of which product is being used. The Risk/Reward is not there to use the stock part. I like having my brakes in an emergency situation. My luck is it fails when I am going double+ the speed limit.

Why is this thread in the Octagon in the 1st place? It's seems a reasonable discussion about the POD? I don't see anyone bashing the vendor. Just asking reasonable questions, trying to learn, and trying to have a discussion.

When a thread goes to the Octagon it seems like it goes there to die. Very few posts after they get moved in general. If anything, you would think it would be a place to have more 'spirited' discussions.
 
Last edited:
  • Agree
Reactions: KevinC39

SLOWESTN54

Specialist
Feb 9, 2021
92
66
0
21
B.C. Canada
Ride
2007 E92 335i / 2008 E60 535i
I have never heard about it and I have been on this platform for way too long.

Not that I would overdrive a HPFP as I think it's stupid and you basically 'need' PI on this platform. BUT, if I was, I would sure have that billet vac plate. Regardless of which product is being used. The Risk/Reward is not there to use the stock part. I like having my brakes in an emergency situation. My luck is it fails when I am going double+ the speed limit.

Why is this thread in the Octagon in the 1st place? It's seems a reasonable discussion about the POD? I don't see anyone bashing the vendor. Just asking reasonable questions, trying to learn, and trying to have a discussion.

When a thread goes to the Octagon it seems like it goes there to die. Very few posts after they get moved in general. If anything, you would think it would be a place to have more 'spirited' discussions.
Couldn't agree more, everything @langsbr said were valid concerns. As a owner of a POD myself my only complaint so far is it seems to make ticking noises randomly while idling, which are concerning at times. But good news no cracked vac pump plates, backing out oil pump bolts, or broken timing. @Torgus Curious why you wouldn't overdrive a hpfp. It's one less controller to break and 6 less injectors to leak. Plus the black fuel rail is a nice piece.
 

SLOWESTN54

Specialist
Feb 9, 2021
92
66
0
21
B.C. Canada
Ride
2007 E92 335i / 2008 E60 535i
i forgot to mention, a major concern i have is if someone ran a overdrive kit and believed you can do so without tune adjustments. It simply wasn't true at least in my case my fuel pressure was all over the place. High peak to low peak had a over 1000 psi difference. With pressures dropping to below 1400 psi. I do have logs i can attach if anyone wants. I got a few while waiting on a tune revision. Hopefully others can chime in.
 

Torgus

Major
Nov 6, 2016
1,927
1,394
0
Boston
Ride
ACF 6466 E92 + METH
@Torgus Curious why you wouldn't overdrive a hpfp. It's one less controller to break and 6 less injectors to leak. Plus the black fuel rail is a nice piece.

Great question. Our HPFPs are already known as a weak component. BMW revised the HPFP slightly and stopped many of the failures. In general, it is never a good idea to spin any pump past it's operational parameters. Would you ask your LPFP, Waterpump, meth pump, etc to spin 50% more and not expect it to significantly lower it's life expectancy? Or a sump pump in your house? Pumps are designed to operate for a long time if you keep everything in check with how they were designed. In general, pumps hate to be overspun as it significantly increases heat and wear. HPFPs are not exactly cheap and while you can limp home when one is failed, do you want to? Overdriving a critical part of the fuel system just seems like a bad idea in general. Most platforms add a second HPFP, not spin them faster and harder. Even then, How many people who run dual HPFPs on this platform have made high HP? Even VTT uses PI with their duel HPFP for their dynos. The reason being is safety, you never want to run a fuel system on it's ragged end. It's a recipe for disaster and blown motors.

What is the highest WHP a single overdriven HPFP has made on this platform with 100% E85? Not from a vendor, from a customer, I would honestly like to know.

I don't like the idea of mixing to 'try' and achieve e50 or e40. It is a bit of a guessing game. You also don't know the real E content of the pump, and you spend more time at the same pump having to fill up with 93, and then with E85. It is much simpler to just run straight E85, you fill up and go.

I believe if you really want above 600whp PI is the way. Can you get by with E85 mixes? Sure, have at it. But the reason you can't run full E85 is your fuel system can't handle it and you have to get by running E blends as a band aid. I am a big proponent of doing it once and doing it right. The DI injectors are just not up to the task of high HP, period. This is even more evident if you go past the stock redline as the injection window is even smaller.

A PI plate or PI manifold seems to be the simplest way to run full E85 and make serious power as long as your LP system is up to the task which can be as simple as two 450 or a 525 and 535, maybe a -6 AN fuel line(small money) etc. You can add a return line with FPR etc. if wanted/needed for more headroom and or mess with the driver's side fuel hat EOS or PR etc have solutions for that.

Just my thoughts on the subject, as always do what you will or what makes the most sense for you and your application. I am far from an expert, I have just watched this platform for a while and come up with my own opinions.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: KevinC39

SLOWESTN54

Specialist
Feb 9, 2021
92
66
0
21
B.C. Canada
Ride
2007 E92 335i / 2008 E60 535i
Great question. Our HPFPs are already known as a weak component. BMW revised the HPFP slightly and stopped many of the failures. In general, it is never a good idea to spin any pump past it's operational parameters. Would you ask your LPFP, Waterpump, meth pump, etc to spin 50% more and not expect it to significantly lower it's life expectancy? Or a sump pump in your house? Pumps are designed to operate for a long time if you keep everything in check with how they were designed. In general, pumps hate to be overspun as it significantly increases heat and wear. HPFPs are not exactly cheap and while you can limp home when one is failed, do you want to? Overdriving a critical part of the fuel system just seems like a bad idea in general. Most platforms add a second HPFP, not spin them faster and harder. Even then, How many people who run dual HPFPs on this platform have made high HP? Even VTT uses PI with their duel HPFP for their dynos. The reason being is safety, you never want to run a fuel system on it's ragged end. It's a recipe for disaster and blown motors.

What is the highest WHP a single overdriven HPFP has made on this platform with 100% E85? Not from a vendor, from a customer, I would honestly like to know.

I don't like the idea of mixing to 'try' and achieve e50 or e40. It is a bit of a guessing game. You also don't know the real E content of the pump, and you spend more time at the same pump having to fill up with 93, and then with E85. It is much simpler to just run straight E85, you fill up and go.

I believe if you really want above 600whp PI is the way. Can you get by with E85 mixes? Sure, have at it. But the reason you can't run full E85 is your fuel system can't handle it and you have to get by running E blends as a band aid. I am a big proponent of doing it once and doing it right. The DI injectors are just not up to the task of high HP, period. This is even more evident if you go past the stock redline as the injection window is even smaller.

A PI plate or PI manifold seems to be the simplest way to run full E85 and make serious power as long as your LP system is up to the task which can be as simple as two 450 or a 525 and 535, maybe a -6 AN fuel line(small money) etc. You can add a return line with FPR etc. if wanted/needed for more headroom and or mess with the driver's side fuel hat EOS or PR etc have solutions for that.

Just my thoughts on the subject, as always do what you will or what makes the most sense for you and your application. I am far from an expert, I have just watched this platform for a while and come up with my own opinions.
I really can’t disagree with what you said. That was well worded. I mostly went with a overdrive for sheer simplicity. The biggest thing that pushed me away from PI is people having leaky injector issues. Which lead to misfires and a more complicated diagnosis. And yes I have 3 spare hpfp’s Incase I break one or two.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Torgus

langsbr

Captain
Apr 5, 2017
1,215
700
0
Ride
07 335i 6MT e90
Remember, with flex fuel, you can run full E85 and just have the breakpoint at whatever you are fueling limited at. There's little benefit to running more than e60 from an octane perspective, so running full e85 is just a convenience thing.

We all know why this got moved to the octagon - anything remotely looking like criticism of a favored vendor and away it goes! I know Chris has had more important things to deal with lately (his health is more important than answering any of us) but it would be nice if we had answers as to why touting the helical gears is such a benefit in the POD, but dismissed when the Helix has them as well, or what the plan (if any) is to address the cracked plate. When it happened on the Helix, some people praised Spool for a quick response and some dissed them saying it was a bandaid. Since this got moved to the octagon, all we have is silence and the case of the cracked plate fades away never to be addressed.
 
  • Agree
Reactions: Torgus

Torgus

Major
Nov 6, 2016
1,927
1,394
0
Boston
Ride
ACF 6466 E92 + METH
Remember, with flex fuel, you can run full E85 and just have the breakpoint at whatever you are fueling limited at. There's little benefit to running more than e60 from an octane perspective, so running full e85 is just a convenience thing.

I agree. However I was always under the assumption that have a well sorted out tune for full e85 that it was better than relying on the flex fuel logic. Perhaps I am wrong? I assumed the flex fuel logic ers on the side of safety vs a map made for 100% E85. Than again if your e85 varies by a significant ammount flex fuel is the safer option. I also would assume tuning for flex fuel is much easier. You choose max psi and timing and interpolate from there based on e85 concentration.

I would like to see a tuner comment of the advantages and disadvantages of flex fuel tuning vs max output, safety, etc.

I am certainly no expert on the subject.
 
Last edited:

langsbr

Captain
Apr 5, 2017
1,215
700
0
Ride
07 335i 6MT e90
With flex fuel you have 2 maps - a 93 octane/no ethanol map, and an ethanol map - set for the limits of your fuel system, in my case E60. If I run E60, I run the full timing, fueling, and load from the E60 map. Any less than e60 and it interpolates down using it's own algorithm. If I run more than E60, if the tune is setup right, it will have a breakpoint above that and lower boost/load to stay under the limits of the fuel system.

If your tuner setup up the E60 map for the ragged edge, then it wouldn't be erring on the side of safety. I've been very pleased with the flex fuel setup - the convenience is just too nice.
 
  • Informative
Reactions: Torgus

PFS

Corporal
Premium Vendor
Nov 19, 2018
176
225
0
Ride
335i
Whoa, been caught up with not-forum work, you guys have been busy!

No one is doing advertising fluff. The right product for the right job. POD is a great way to stick with factory control/DI only but remember we sell PI too, and PI kits outsell PODs probably about 4:1. Just like the shotgun or anything else that changes hpfp output -either from overspeeding or changing plunger throw- tune changes are necessary for maximizing performance, but usually not required right out of the box. This really shouldn't be a shocker to any of you guys, do a full reset on fueling related adaptations and most of the time that seems to be sufficient. Sufficient, and optimized are not the same thing, and we state that right on the webpage. Anyone that can tune the spool version, or a VTT shotgun, can easily tune the POD as it's going to look about the same as far as the DME is concerned (lots more fuel, control valve will be more sensitive).

As far as helical gears vs. straight cut vs me never opening up a competitor product vs. me saying "we don't use straight cut gears" I did not paint myself into a corner, as there is a way to connect all those dots and still not paint the picture you're imagining. PFS is a small company, I'm a mechanical engineer but a good enough one to reach out and build a remote team for larger projects like this one. Set up criteria, existing details on envelope and real estate available, milestones and essentially be a project engineer with a team of gearbox experts then be a liason for the manufacturing effort. I'm not whittling these gears out myself guys. During the manufacturing effort collecting bids I was approached by one vendor with an offer to build significantly less expensive version that looked pretty damn similar and was in production already. No names were shared. A perusal of this offer showed that straight cut gears were being employed. So there you have it. I've both never touched a competing product, but also seen some details about it. Hey, maybe it's just a dead product someone tried to pawn off on a small guy, I don't know. It wasn't a bad design, it just wasn't going to be quiet and/or well balanced. I showed the cutaway to my gearbox team and they were amused. Wasn't thinking this would turn into allegations of falsifying marketing claims, especially so heatedly.

As far as POD or oversped anything vs. PI, my opinion is that you choose your poison. As the platform ages the cars typically get driven less and less, power levels increase, reliability decreases -this is part of the game of aging platforms but pragmatically speaking the changing needs gives you some elbow room for designs that might not make it onto showroom floors. PI has control issues that are getting better with time (reflex/etc.) but it's still a bunch of extra injectors and not perfectly controlled when things go wrong, not like the factory does on modern PI/DI engines anyway. POD has spinning parts to wear out, we put a lot of effort into making it last but it's not like BMW made the damned thing (not 100% if that's good or bad, ha!). In general as a fueling company we haven't seen much in the way of HPFP failures, or in customers reporting that they had a HPFP kick the bucket. To be specific, other than one guy who had an old one right from the start that didn't seem to flow too well, I haven't heard of one pooting out yet (yes, it's still early as far as mechanical life expectancy goes). Seems the HPFP's have come a long way from the early days, but at the same time I seriously doubt you'll see an oversped one go 100k. May not see a stock one go 100k either but that's a different story. Mine is more than 40k old but I no longer use the N54 as a daily, it maybe gets a couple thousand miles per year, most of which is at full boost. Mine is 14 years old now, which is old enough to expect to replace a bunch of things fairly regularly. Now if you asked me about about injectors... yeah, plenty of people on the edge put POD on and learned that they do not, in fact, have healthy enough injectors to add another hundred or two

Want to stick with DI for the benefits? There are some significant ones. Right now, overspeed that sucka. Don't like DI, want your valves sort of cleaned, and accept the fun issues that PI can, but doesn't usually have? Slap a plate on there with a simple PI adapter and you're golden. Worried about vacuum pump cracking? Either don't run the POD, or pick up the cover solution from spool that addresses the concerns their engineering team found, but I cannot speak to. Those that ask me "POD vs. PI" I almost always tell them up to 600whp, DI. Between 6-700 either. 700+ PI. More isn't better, I honestly don't even like the platform much over 600 whp, as it is still fun but takes a lot more "help" from your local wrench collection and auto parts provider, and at some point it stops being as much fun. Still love my N54 though. ;)

Flex fuel is a different subject and a great upgrade to the platform, as described it's really just 2 maps with several levels of interpolation. It's not perfect but it's pretty damned good and if you can run it, we recommend it.

I think that covers most of the things. Back to making fuel pumps.
 

langsbr

Captain
Apr 5, 2017
1,215
700
0
Ride
07 335i 6MT e90
During the manufacturing effort collecting bids I was approached by one vendor with an offer to build significantly less expensive version that looked pretty damn similar and was in production already. No names were shared. A perusal of this offer showed that straight cut gears were being employed. So there you have it. I've both never touched a competing product, but also seen some details about it. Hey, maybe it's just a dead product someone tried to pawn off on a small guy, I don't know. It wasn't a bad design, it just wasn't going to be quiet and/or well balanced. I showed the cutaway to my gearbox team and they were amused.

So not only are you not claiming you've never seen the competition's product, but now you are DEFINITELY claiming theirs uses straight cut gears. You can do the whole "no names shared" thing to try and say you aren't saying it about Spool, but name the other competing product to the POD.

Wasn't thinking this would turn into allegations of falsifying marketing claims, especially so heatedly.

I never said you falsified marketing claims, you just did. I simply said you touted it as a benefit of yours, insinuating that the competition used straight cut gears, despite their claim to use helical ones. It is only in the post you just made that you said they use straight cut gears.

Returning to the situation of the cracked vacuum housing plate. Now that you've been watching things, is this merely a one of and no need for a billet one with the POD? How many more need to crack before it's not a one-off?