High side PCV vacuum single turbo?

Torgus

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Excuse me if I write anything dumb in this thread. The PCV system is not my area of expertise.

What are people using for high side vacuum on top mount single turbo kits?

Stock the vacuum came from the rear inlet IIRC. I have seen people run a long ass line from the ST filter all the way back but i worry there is not enough vacuum with that long of a run to matter. Like RobC did: http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1164966

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I have the low side RB kit with ports blocked in my head and my high side PVC catch can now has no vacuum source.

Suggestions?
 

The Convert

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Not sure what most top mount people do, but Rob picked that idea up from the fftec bottom mount kits.
 
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Torgus

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Not sure what most top mount people do, but Rob picked that idea up from the fftec bottom mount kits.

I think everyone just ignores it as I never hear it discussed...

You are right the fftec kit had that built into the filter, I forgot all about that. I wonder if this is an off the shelf filter? It wouldn't fit most top mounts as it's tight already where the filter sits:
single_turbo_kit_large.jpg




Now If I did this(kinda ugly but whatever) the vacuum line would be very short which would be optimal. I also get to use a lager filter which means it will last longer between cleanings:
images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQ_DJ0bdlbAKoZfezWYzeKrCgkEY4x37jRTCp6g0EYTQxY6kq6Pbw.jpg
 

Torgus

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I really don't want to run the filter all the way over there but it seems like the best choice. I'm amazed no one seems to address this or there are not more proven solutions.

I will document what I end up doing...any more input is welcome.
 
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blisstik

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I use a K&N filter with a metal top that I threaded for an AN just like Robs.

Not sure about vacuum due to length but at least it's not VTA and going in the cabin.
 
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blisstik

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I'm also wondering if the same vacuum source from the custom RB fitting can be extended so there would be dual ports.

If you use the BMS OCC for the high side, a 3/4" hose to 6AN hose equivalent converter will be required.

Just throwing out ideas
 
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Torgus

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I use a K&N filter with a metal top that I threaded for an AN just like Robs.

Not sure about vacuum due to length but at least it's not VTA and going in the cabin.

On a top mount? My undersanding is the lack of room makes most filters a no go. Unless you move the filter like above.

Here goes my lack of understanding of the pcv system, with the head ports blocked there should be no pressure in the vc right? Which I undsrstand is what you want. So you need vacuum to pull which the boost would of normally opened the valve right?
 

The Convert

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On a top mount? My undersanding is the lack of room makes most filters a no go. Unless you move the filter like above.

Here goes my lack of understanding of the pcv system, with the head ports blocked there should be no pressure in the vc right? Which I undsrstand is what you want. So you need vacuum to pull which the boost would of normally opened the valve right?
It creates a good opportunity for the VTT VC with its front right port right up by the filter area.
 

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On a top mount? My undersanding is the lack of room makes most filters a no go. Unless you move the filter like above.

Here goes my lack of understanding of the pcv system, with the head ports blocked there should be no pressure in the vc right? Which I undsrstand is what you want. So you need vacuum to pull which the boost would of normally opened the valve right?

You want your crankcase to ideally have some vacuum on it whether in high or low load. When in low load if you have say an RB External PCV setup then you are in luck, as you have some vacuum on the crankcase. Also if you have your OEM flapper assembly tied into your rear inlet such as with an OE type twin turbo arrangement, once again in luck as you have some vacuum pull from the turbo inlet during high load. So in short all bases are (mostly) covered.

IMO it is advisable on a ST setup to do the same thing that FFTEC (and RobC- something we'd also advised him years ago) did, which is find a way to plumb into your turbo inlet. Running the remote ST filter setup seems to be a very nice solution, not sure why more do not just go that route.

It creates a good opportunity for the VTT VC with its front right port right up by the filter area.

If you were to install a flapper assembly then it could be a similar function, however as those aftermarket valve covers have no baffling/cyclonic separators/etc.; count on a ton more oil passing through them. IMO months/years down the road there will be many more discussions on how to increase baffling on these things due to the problems that the lack thereof will create.

Rob
 

Torgus

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You want your crankcase to ideally have some vacuum on it whether in high or low load. When in low load if you have say an RB External PCV setup then you are in luck, as you have some vacuum on the crankcase. Also if you have your OEM flapper assembly tied into your rear inlet such as with an OE type twin turbo arrangement, once again in luck as you have some vacuum pull from the turbo inlet during high load. So in short all bases are (mostly) covered.

IMO it is advisable on a ST setup to do the same thing that FFTEC (and RobC- something we'd also advised him years ago) did, which is find a way to plumb into your turbo inlet. Running the remote ST filter setup seems to be a very nice solution, not sure why more do not just go that route.



If you were to install a flapper assembly then it could be a similar function, however as those aftermarket valve covers have no baffling/cyclonic separators/etc.; count on a ton more oil passing through them. IMO months/years down the road there will be many more discussions on how to increase baffling on these things due to the problems that the lack thereof will create.

Rob

Your low side kit is awesome, high quality parts. I was hoping you might chime in here. I think I will look into moving my ST air filter to the driver's side and make a FFTEC/ROBC filter solution for my high side PCV. Seems like the best choice so far other than a dedicated vacuum pump which I have ZERO desire to look in to.
 

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Your low side kit is awesome, high quality parts. I was hoping you might chime in here. I think I will look into moving my ST air filter to the driver's side and make a FFTEC/ROBC filter solution for my high side PCV. Seems like the best choice so far other than a dedicated vacuum pump which I have ZERO desire to look in to.

Agree with the solution... and if you do mount the filter remote you'll then have an aluminum inlet pipe you can weld a fitting to anywhere between the filter and turbo connection. Let us know if you go that route as we do have some weld-on style PTC adapters you could use to get yourself in order.

Note: These are not production pieces and we have 8 pieces remaining.

http://www.n54tech.com/forums/showthread.php?t=40695

Rob
 

blisstik

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Can you take a pic of your top mount? You don't have any room for a filter?
 

suspenceful

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Have you ever thought of routing your high side BMS OCC outlet to an exhaust scavenger?
 

BOosted 335i

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With the rear flapper in place and using a bms occ(high side)but are vta from outlet of occ,wouldn't you be relieving the boost psi under load anyway,helping the valve cover longevity?
 

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With the rear flapper in place and using a bms occ(high side)but are vta from outlet of occ,wouldn't you be relieving the boost psi under load anyway,helping the valve cover longevity?

There is no vacuum assist, but this is the route most are taking due to "simplicity". However some seem to regret it, after a bit of time, due to smell/mess.
 

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Have you ever thought of routing your high side BMS OCC outlet to an exhaust scavenger?

If you were to maintain the Low/High Side OE style PCV functionality then this would be a bad idea; as the exhaust would be used as the "fresh air source" during low load conditions. So during these times your crankcase would be pulling exhaust through it and then back through the PCV valve, low load OCC if applicable, and ultimately back through the intake. This would be counter-productive to say the least and is why pulling clean filtrated air (after the air filter and before the turbo) is more ideal, at least not without some major re-engineering of the system.

Rob
 
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Torgus

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Can you take a pic of your top mount? You don't have any room for a filter?

It's an ACF/VM ST. I have room for the filter. I meant I don't have room for the filter and then barbbed fitting, I guess i could fit the AN but I don't trust the vacuum to pull with that long of a pipe.

Agree with the solution... and if you do mount the filter remote you'll then have an aluminum inlet pipe you can weld a fitting to anywhere between the filter and turbo connection. Let us know if you go that route as we do have some weld-on style PTC adapters you could use to get yourself in order.

Note: These are not production pieces and we have 8 pieces remaining.

http://www.n54tech.com/forums/showthread.php?t=40695

Rob

That just gives me a place to put the stock heater right? Can I just unplug it or does it throw a code?

I think I might just go down to autozone and buy a ricer pipe with a fitting for a PCV hose kinda like this:


Then chop it up as all I need is the port off it and a inch or two of pipe on each side of it then I will connect it to the high side BMS OCC. Annoying to relocate my filter but I guess it's small money after all and everything will function as designed. I'll probably fab up a bracket so the filter doesn't flop all around as I have my meth lines in that area for my CP meth injection.

Someone must sell the pipe and pcv fitting i need alone vs. hacking up a pipe...be nice to have beads on the pipe as well. Anyone ever seen what I am looking for? just a piece of pipe and a metal pipe coming off it for a hose all with beads?
 
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That just gives me a place to put the stock heater right? Can I just unplug it or does it throw a code?

Many omit the heater and it'll certainly still work and that is correct it will not throw a code. But some others out there prefer to do a job with some taste for fit and finish/aesthetics as well and for those types we have these available. So once you plug in the heater it has a bung already integrated, then you just connect that bung to the flapper assembly bung with a cut to length hose and you are done.

These things do not need to be overcomplicated and are naturally very simple quick and easy, however what we have noticed with this platform is that so many want to blaze their own trail without an idea of what they are doing or by cutting corners at every step and it just confuses the hell out of everybody in the process... the result is indefinite questions of what to do and constant confusion.

Rob
 
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ShocknAwe

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Someone must sell the pipe and pcv fitting i need alone vs. hacking up a pipe...be nice to have beads on the pipe as well. Anyone ever seen what I am looking for? just a piece of pipe and a metal pipe coming off it for a hose all with beads?

So if you had that, would allow you to have a vacuum source for pcv in what would effectively be an inlet pipe, correct? Aside from running the line back to the valve is anything else required? Interesting idea.