Technical GTX3584RS vs. EFR9180

[veer90]

Looking for feedback on these 2 turbos for when I decide to retire my 6266:

• Borg Warner EFR 9180 T4 divided 1.05 AR
• Garrett GTX 3584RS T4 divided 1.06 AR

Both are medium frame 67mm inducer turbos in the $2500 range rated for up to 1000 crank hp. Power goal is low-mid 800s whp on the stock head / cams. Not quite ready to pull the trigger on head work yet (still in the research phase).

Compressor maps for both:




From a glance it seems like the EFR is a better match for high boost required for my power goals on the stock head, and the transient response from the lightweight Gamma-Ti turbine is supposed to be second to none. However I've heard that wheel doesn't like being run hard and there is the chance for catastrophic failure if I overspeed it. On the other hand the Garrett has a traditional inconel turbine and has a reputation for holding up to abuse.

In N54 land I've only seen one top mount EFR9180 and afaik no one has run the Garrett. Curious on boost threshold, lag, oil consumption, and reliability

Anyone that's run either turbo please chime in...

 

[island road]

This past SEMA Borg Warner mentioned they are finally going to release what was past considered "Black Series" with the EFR 8474, 9274 and 9280. The compressor wheels will be anodized black to differentiate between existing EFR Series.

9280 vs. 9180 = Same 91mm Exducer, but 9280 has 74mm Inducer and 9180 has 68mm Inducer.
9274 vs. 9174 = Same 91mm Exducer, but 9274 has 74mm Inducer and 9174 has 68mm Inducer.
8474 vs. 8374 = Same 84mm Exducer, but 8474 has 68mm Inducer and 8374 has 62mm Inducer.

Here are some release notes - some shops are already starting to receive the turbos.

https://www.borgwarner.com/newsroom...ower-capabilities-of-efr-series-turbochargers

As you are looking at the 9180 below are some overlays.

Compressor Map Comparison - with a few others thrown in for good measure for others that are interested.

 

[veer90]

I've seen the 9280, and it looks like a nice turbo. I don't think I'll need it though. There's been one instance where a Motiv engine blew out the head gasket from 850ish whp and full power pulls multiple times a day over the course of a few months.

So I'm not looking for the power that turbo is capable of, not until I do 11mm head studs all around instead of 9mm outers. That'll probably be when I build the head

 

[martymil]

We are running a gtx 3584rs here in oz and making 480rwk on dyno dynamics + 10% for American dynos on a completely stock motor and we maxed the single barrel and pi completely out.

Easily make a lot more but I don't think the motor will last but the turbo is barely working.

 

[veer90]

We are running a gtx 3584rs here in oz and making 480rwk on dyno dynamics + 10% for American dynos on a completely stock motor and we maxed the single barrel and pi completely out.

Easily make a lot more but I don't think the motor will last but the turbo is barely working.

what exhaust housing and what rpm do you see full boost? any logs?

 

[martymil]

Custom tubular housing, 20 psi by 4100rpm and 30 psi by 4900rpm

Logs are on my laptop at work but the power delivery is like a 2jz vertical when coming on boost.

 

[lamia2super]

i have a garret 3584RS for sale and a comp 6767

 

[Payam@BMS]

You will need a lot of boost with the EFR.

I'd stick with PTE 6466 for what you want IMHO. If not, just go with the Garrett and buy Lamia2Super turbo he is selling.

 

[veer90]

You will need a lot of boost with the EFR.

I'd stick with PTE 6466 for what you want IMHO. If not, just go with the Garrett and buy Lamia2Super turbo he is selling.

What's your definition of "a lot of boost"

The stock longblock record was with a 6466... 861whp STD at 36 psi

 

[Payam@BMS]

What's your definition of "a lot of boost"

The stock longblock record was with a 6466... 861whp at 36 psi

40+ psi for the EFR.

Yup, the 6466 was the best in terms of power and spool with all the turbos I've tested.

 

[Abacus38]

Honestly I would just build your head and slap a 7275 on there. Don't kid yourself you know you want that 1k

 

[veer90]

Honestly I would just build your head and slap a 7275 on there. Don't kid yourself you know you want that 1k

When I build the head I want it done right... there's no one I'm comfortable with dropping the $$$$ for an N54 cylinder head right now.

 

[JBacon335]

The N53 head looks like it'll be the thing to get the job done

 

[Hydra Performance]

Will need a new exhaust manifold or to have the existing one "reflanged" though, neither of which are trivial undertakings...

 

[Panzerfaust]

When I build the head I want it done right... there's no one I'm comfortable with dropping the $$$$ for an N54 cylinder head right now.

Hmm, not even VAC? Albeit they're significantly more expensive than the other options, but having seen how they do their N54 heads and it being VAC I would say they're probably a very solid option. But that's just me I guess.

Otherwise I agree that @Hydra Performance 's n53 head is the best bet if you have a good fabricator. If I'm unhappy with how my build turns out once I get the suspension and trans setup too, I'll be heavily considering going that route assuming he still has some and I have the extra money.

 

[Abacus38]

Just take it to headgames brah. They’re developing heads for n5x and s55

 

[veer90]

Just take it to headgames brah. They’re developing heads for n5x and s55

Yeah I saw, they definitely look legit. Good rep from building heads for Supras, GTRs, Evos and stuff right?

 

[veer90]

Hmm, not even VAC? Albeit they're significantly more expensive than the other options, but having seen how they do their N54 heads and it being VAC I would say they're probably a very solid option. But that's just me I guess.

Otherwise I agree that @Hydra Performance 's n53 head is the best bet if you have a good fabricator. If I'm unhappy with how my build turns out once I get the suspension and trans setup too, I'll be heavily considering going that route assuming he still has some and I have the extra money.

N53 head is great but I think I'll be satisfied with ported N54, eventually.

Every tech that I talked to who installed a VAC N54 head has complained about it... burrs, freeze plugs popping off, etc etc. I'll pass lol

edit: add bad guides to this list lol

 

[Abacus38]

Yeah I saw, they definitely look legit. Good rep from building heads for Supras, GTRs, Evos and stuff right?

Yep they build dope stuff for all the high rollers over in the import community

 

[Hydra Performance]

FWIW a customer of ours ordered a fully ported/built 2JZ head from there back in 2014 or thereabouts, complete with shimless bucket conversion and all the bells and whistles you would expect. $3500 + core and 5-6 months later it finally showed up, with 12 out of the 24 buckets/shims showing incorrectly set valve clearance. So I did the math, and figured out what buckets were needed and they sent out another 12 shims and all was well in the end. I realize that people make mistakes , and that the issue was handled properly, and that there was no harm done in the end, but a 12/24 miss rate indicates a striking lack of attention to detail - not what you would expect given the reputation, and the $$$ premium of the company in question. I can think of several other similar anecdotes from other big-ticket vendors we've dealt with over the years, you'd be surprised...