Discussion about issues encountered whilst converting to M3 Flash and GWS

[Pete.J]

I’ll see if I can get some help.

Has Brintech or anyone for that matter actually retrofitted M Drive into a N54 powered car? Because even the 1M doesn't come with M Drive.

I think we might be trying to do something that no one has actually accomplished before!

We are not after the lame sharper throttle and that green M logo that appears on the cluster that the 1M's got, when the ///M button on the steering wheel is pressed. We are after proper M Drive retrofit as featured on the E9X M3 cars.

I am starting to get a bit skeptical whether anyone has actually achieved this tbh

 

[aus335iguy]

Apparently Brintech, hence why I suggested a company 10hrs away. As far as I know they’re the only ones who’ve accomplished it.

 

[aus335iguy]

Has Brintech or anyone for that matter actually retrofitted M Drive into a N54 powered car? Because even the 1M doesn't come with M Drive.

I think we might be trying to do something that no one has actually accomplished before!

We are not after the lame sharper throttle and that green M logo that appears on the cluster that the 1M's got, when the ///M button on the steering wheel is pressed. We are after proper M Drive retrofit as featured on the E9X M3 cars.

I am starting to get a bit skeptical whether anyone has actually achieved this tbh

Take a look at page 9 for clues. Essentially the only car that we think to have this working didn’t use a 1 m bin but a bastardised merged file mss65 is mentioned and this is why the 1M bin might not be working. We need to take the relevant code from one of the m3 or m5 bins to make it work . .....note acc is active cruise in this case. I remember him telling me that he managed to get that working. He hasn’t answered my texts. He’s likely a busy bloke.

Hey Gents,
Happy to help with anything I can as so many other do, it's nice to give back.

@ derick, I was hoping to catch you before you ordered that dsc unit, hence i thought it's easier to call...

Since i spoke with derick on sunday ive been thinking about the issue and wondering what could be the route cause and how i can help track it down. As were a commercial business sometimes we just dont the time to approach every problem the way I would like and it's often much quicker to rule things out and move on. I'm also extra lucky as I have access to the parts to play with so it always makes things a while lot easier, then throw in the sickness we all have ...

Anyhow it does bother me that the one and only complete vehicle I converted ran as intended from day dot, yet you guys are experiencing these issues. I've not read everything that's bone but figure it's best I share what I've done and we put it all together and kick on from there.

The 3 ser was a uk import (euro spec) msd81 after 10/08 or around n54. I don't remember every detail unfortunately but il do my best. In addition to the basic wiring which you guys already know, the m3 dsc wants pads sensors on both front and I ran the center console switch directly inthink p41dsc to 6. Im sure the the stock switch will also work and just unpin from jbe and disable in ncs. Besides that, the m3 szl + wheel sensors + yaw sensor usually under passenger seat which has a slightly different plug but is a straightn forward swap. Almost forgot the m3 cluster.

The trick/only way i MDM mode is to either use the a 1m zb - personally i have a habbit of always going with the earliest I have, in this case I use 7628006 , ur92 . You can also join bins together which is more involved to a degree and what u had to do with acc dsc since the m3 unit is dsc only., however i doubt anyone is to interested in that. Method a is the better. There is an issue with powerclass which needs to be taken into account and unfortunatly that's not my work and these kind of topics are a little sensitive so it's not something I can step by step here. Having said that i doubt it's the biggest secret and in sure someone on here can share >---1km0s of not already. For custom tunes etc the path would be the better.
With the steering sensor and valves i found sometimes both fail repeatedly and occasionally takes 5 or 6 goes at it and eventually it works, odd indeed. Before that encode everything or at least the dsc, usually i have a bad habit of working through each problem individually, I used to document everything but each cat has just become too different I takes longer to read through notes and to try a dozen fixes. With the encoding there is nothing specific I remember but really common sense applies, you guys will be all over it. Defualt encoding with trigger trans faults etc but it all have a 100% work through. Of memory the cluster has "motorsport" wert 02 will fault at 0xe1 for 6hp acc, dct is fine. M drive dtc button around 0x1d9 if anyone is interested. All the encoding is straight forward and a good amount of trial and error. Use pm92 in ncs to access the dsc, just a matter of habit, and ur92 for comparisons sake. I will get you guys a full 1m of all stock modules if anyone wants it. Anyway that's the basics, sorry guys i do feel like I've missed a few things but it's been a really taxing few days and I'm writing this on my phone hence the poor quality.

After out diacussion I had the opportunity yesterday to tinker about with an mid 07, definitely pre 09/07 335 n54 6hp. Basically installed an m3 dsc system from an m3 less mdm and running msd80, to my astonishment it works perfect and fault free with the msd80 and 6hp tcu, this should absolutely not be the case. Even the damn mdm szl will marry to the dsc on that integration level. This leads me to believe the dsc, unless with acc is not the issue here. I hope im wrong.

I intend to try and replicate the exact issue being ecperience on a m3 withiut the next week or so and then I can come back to you guys with whatever I find through elimination. Once I start fitting suspect 135/335 parts we should get to the bottom of it quickly. Worst case we will be burying our heads in the bins for some time, I do have some quick roundabout techniques as well.

Sorry if ive missed anything gents, literally struggling

Cheers

 

[Jake@MHD]

@PeterY, I can handle the software side to get IKM up and running on your DME. I have done this for a few members here for a small fee. It did not get the M button working properly though, and I won't have time to dig for that functionality for awhile.

 

[DirtKurt]

@PeterY, I can handle the software side to get IKM up and running on your DME. I have done this for a few members here for a small fee. It did not get the M button working properly though, and I won't have time to dig for that functionality for awhile.

Was any progress ever made with the different rear end gear ratios and writing something into the flash so the trans would see the speed value it was expecting.

 

[aus335iguy]

Was any progress ever made with the different rear end gear ratios and writing something into the flash so the trans would see the speed value it was expecting.

Because the DSC broadcasts this it’s not effective in the DMe flash. You could in theory run the yellow box’s but that means that your DSC doesn’t work correctly and the KOMBI would also show the wrong speed. The other way is change it in the gearbox... which is effectively what you are doing by using the GTS flash.

 

[aus335iguy]

Because the DSC broadcasts this it’s not effective in the DMe flash. You could in theory run the yellow box’s but that means that your DSC doesn’t work correctly and the KOMBI would also show the wrong speed. The other way is change it in the gearbox... which is effectively what you are doing by using the GTS flash.

A can shield before the GWS changing the broadcast at those points could do it.

 

[Jake@MHD]

Yep, basically what @aus335iguy said

 

[DirtKurt]

Because the DSC broadcasts this it’s not effective in the DMe flash. You could in theory run the yellow box’s but that means that your DSC doesn’t work correctly and the KOMBI would also show the wrong speed. The other way is change it in the gearbox... which is effectively what you are doing by using the GTS flash.

A can shield before the GWS changing the broadcast at those points could do it.

Yep, basically what @aus335iguy said

Thanks guys, wasnt sure if that had shaken out or not

 

[dzid_]

From memory, I tried all possible coding combinations using $540 and $544, and resetting the DME learnt variants everytime I made changes, and it still didn’t work, I’ll try again this week. Just to confirm, the cruise control function is definitely only controlled by DME, Kombi and DSC? No need touch any other modules.

I am not sure if that's helpful, but from investigating CAN Bus I know that option $540 controls speed only using: Kombi -> DME (DME controls engine torque internally).
Whereas option $544 uses Kombi -> DSC -> DME communication. (DSC requests torque from DME)

I also noticed that $544 option is sometimes slightly jerky, but it gives me braking feature.

 

[aus335iguy]

That makes sense because 544 need to use the brakes.

 

[PRobably]

Hi guys,

I've been gathering information and parts for a DCT swap for a few weeks already. I have an m3 e92 DCT donor car , that I will be stripping for the DCT conversion.

As far as I know the DCT gearbox and fly wont fit , but how about everything else ?

I want to go all in at once and convert to the m3 GWS , KOMBI, DSC, SZL etc , so I can have the fully controllable LC shiftlogic etc. I will be converting to the M3 running gear as well.

I guess my question at first is about hardware. Will the m3 gearbox wiring work on the n54 ? The park System , and all the other n54 ''specific'' bits.

I don't have access to a 335 IS there isn't one in my country at all. We do have a fair bit of m3's though.

Finding parts for a 335 IS is impossible , so converting to an M3 DTC is my only option.

I will source out the n54 gearbox and the m4 flywheel , but everything else that I need for the conversion , must be taken from an m3.

Is that even possible ?

Any information will be greatly appreciated

Thanks,

Peter

 

[aus335iguy]

335 DCTs were available outside of the US since 2009. Where exactly are you ?

 

[PRobably]

I know all about them , I've spend a lot of time reading about them. I'm located in Bulgaria,Eastern Europe. We often import cars from the UK and convert them to LHD since UK cars are RHD. It's a lot of work to own a nice 335i here.... I spent months looking for a nice fresh 335i that is the right color and right millage. I found one and I'm currently converting it to LHD and M3 everything , panels drivetrain etc. With some luck I could have imported a IS from the UK , but they are mainly LCI cars with the n55 engine, which is a no go for me. Since I already found the car I like and I don't plan on selling it for a IS , mainly because I wont find a decent one... I want to convert my car to DCT transmission and M3 GWS etc.

 

[aus335iguy]

LHD vs RHD is a big job good luck with it! The DSC modules are different. And that’s the one thing I know. I imagine that the whole wiring loom as well as the physical furniture Inside the car as well as engine bay will need to change Not impossible but....

 

[PRobably]

I have already converted the car to LHD with the correct wiring, the whole interior is changed etc. pretty much everything. Even things like the headlights , wipers, and side mirrors are different. I've already swapped them for the M3 units. The car is fully running as LHD with zero errors. I only need to swap it to DCT as mentioned above. Thank you for your interest , wish me good luck....

 

[aus335iguy]

Good luck! from here on in you are doing something that has been done before so shouldnt be too bad.

 

[doublespaces]

I guess my question at first is about hardware. Will the m3 gearbox wiring work on the n54 ? The park System , and all the other n54 ''specific'' bits.

Which part of the wiring are you referring to? If you are referring to the wiring inside the cabin, those wires are intertwined with several harnesses and if you repurpose the wires that already exist which were meant for the 6AT, then you can actually complete this portion without routing a single wire through the firewall as enough already exist. You just need to know the end points. As for the harness from the ecu box to the transmission, I also doubt that will work as the harness is not the same between the 6AT in the 335i and the DCT in the 335is. There is also a difference in the harness between the 335is and the 135i DCT. ( I have a 335i 6AT, 335is DCT and 135i DCT harness in my possession). The pigtail has wires going to different places and in some cases a wire may not exist, there will just be a blank or a hole in the pigtail. I looked at my 335is harness and it isn't the same as the one that is described in some of the original swap documentation by ncat(oleg). I intend to fully document this however my swap has been stalled and sits in my garage still.

Anyway this may be useful:

6AT to DCT Converstion

Unfortunately very vague

bmw.spoolstreet.com

I will source out the n54 gearbox and the m4 flywheel , but everything else that I need for the conversion , must be taken from an m3.

I think that is a waste of time personally. There are a lot of M3 DCT's in the junk yards here, and I didn't find anything useful. The best part from the M3 which you can find is the rear differential and axles. The issue there is this comes with a 210mm case and trying to find a ring/pinion that gives the proper final drive (2.81 or similar) is going to come from a very rare 8 series.

If you're already outsourcing the transmission, then why not just have the transmission harness sent over as well? Its not like you're saving much money by going any other route.Parts can be exported as junk parts from the USA with very little or no value, they even come from the junk yard.

 

[PRobably]

I will be importing a lot of parts from the US , simply because this is my only choice. I'm not trying to use the m3 parts because I want to save some money , but mainly because this is the only thing available around here.
I will use the information from the first DCT swap thread to try and explain what I'm on about.



Part1 ( Hardware parts )

-12 51 7 581 112 – wiring
-83 22 2 147 477 - DCT Oil 8l.
-51 16 9 141 518 - Cover center console
-61 31 9 133 067 and 61 31 9 213 647 - gear selector
-61 31 9 192 483 - park system for DCT
-DCT Transmission (GS7D36SG from E9X/E89 n54 n55 )
-DCT flywheel. Very important.
-If you have 2009.01+ car you number is - 21 20 7 590 853 ( 6 bolts 11 22 7 520 706 )
-If you have 2009.01 < car you number is - 21 20 7 593 469 ( 8 bolts 11 22 7 520 706 )
The different about flywheel only in bolts pattern.
-Rear differential 2.56

Part2 ( ECU parts ) ( If you have 2008/09> just skip this part )

MSD81 ECU (12 14 7 616 431 ) - if you have 2008/03 just skip this part
DSC Pump (34 51 6 789 308 or 34 51 6 863 356 ) - if you have 2008/09 just skip this part
DSC Sensor (34 52 6 780 334 or 34 52 6 850 375 ) - if you have 2008/09 just skip this part
DSC Sensor plug (http://www.realoem.com/bmw/showparts...95&hg=34&fg=20 ) - if you have 2008/09 just skip this part
I can’t find this part #17 . But I buy used harness from car 2009+ and get this plug from it.
JBE2 or JBE3 ECU (61359286790 ) - if you have 2007/09 just skip this part
DCT shift paddles or m3 shift paddles

Part3 (harness to DCT Gear Selector )
You should to made the wiring harness for DCT gear selector switch.
Use this link to download scheme. ftp://share:[email protected]/DCT/
You should to made and integrate the harness, marked blue color in my scheme
To do this you need following parts:
4 pin jack plug 61 13 8 380 696
2 pin jack plug 61 13 6 925 634
and also 6 pins 61 13 0 005 197 - 6
61139132577 - 10 pin GWS socket housing

Part 1 I can pick the following parts from the M3, or can I ?



Part1 ( Hardware parts )

-12 51 7 581 112 – wiring (can I use this part from the M3? is this the same as the IS wiring , or I need IS specific i.e this 12 51 7 581 112 )
-83 22 2 147 477 - DCT Oil 8l.
-51 16 9 141 518 - Cover center console
-61 31 9 133 067 and 61 31 9 213 647 - gear selector
-61 31 9 192 483 - park system for DCT
I will be sorting the center console , gear , selector and park system of the m3 , since I'm converting to m3 GWS.
-Rear differential 2.56 , obviously this one I cannot get from the M3 but since I will be swapping the whole rear end in I will use the 3.15 m3 lsd. Which as far as I understood is the way to go when you are converting to the m3 gws etc. ?
I will get the m4 fly and a DCT box from a IS or I will make an adaptor plate to use the m3 dct.
Part 1 at least hardware wise I'm done ?
Please keep in mind that I'm starting with a fully stock 335i AUTO.

Part 2
Part2 ( ECU parts )

MSD81 ECU (12 14 7 616 431 ) - My car already has the MSD81
DSC Pump (34 51 6 789 308 or 34 51 6 863 356 ) - I will not use the IS one I will be going straight to the M3 one
DSC Sensor (34 52 6 780 334 or 34 52 6 850 375 ) - I will not use the IS one I will be going straight to the M3 one
DSC Sensor plug (http://www.realoem.com/bmw/showparts...95&hg=34&fg=20 ) - I will not use the IS one I will be going straight to the M3 one
JBE2 or JBE3 ECU (61359286790 ) - if you have 2007/09 just skip this part I have the same one.
DCT shift paddles or m3 shift paddles , I will be swapping straight to the m3 steering wheel.



Part3 (harness to DCT Gear Selector )
You should to made the wiring harness for DCT gear selector switch.
Use this link to download scheme. ftp://share:[email protected]/DCT/
You should to made and integrate the harness, marked blue color in my scheme
To do this you need following parts:
4 pin jack plug 61 13 8 380 696
2 pin jack plug 61 13 6 925 634
and also 6 pins 61 13 0 005 197 - 6
61139132577 - 10 pin GWS socket housing

I will be completing all of that by myself. Am I correct in thinking I can order all of the parts from part 3 from the local dealership ?

I think that Hardware wise I've got everything covered ?

As I said I will also be adding the M3 kombi , szl , dsw etc. and rewire them accordingly.

Even if by some miracle I manage to do all of that , it still leaves me with one major problem....

I Know nothing about coding... And there is not a SINGLE person who has even attempted such a swap here. So I guess my question is , can someone from the US do all of the coding needed remotely ?

Thanks guys,

Peter

 

[PRobably]

I think that is a waste of time personally. There are a lot of M3 DCT's in the junk yards here, and I didn't find anything useful. The best part from the M3 which you can find is the rear differential and axles. The issue there is this comes with a 210mm case and trying to find a ring/pinion that gives the proper final drive (2.81 or similar) is going to come from a very rare 8 series.

If you're already outsourcing the transmission, then why not just have the transmission harness sent over as well? Its not like you're saving much money by going any other route.Parts can be exported as junk parts from the USA with very little or no value, they even come from the junk yard.

I was referring to the transmission harness yes, If I find a trans from a n54 I will have the harness as well , if not I will have to use the m3 trans with an adaptor plate and order the harness seperately , hence my question can I use the m3 transmission harness instead ?