@jyamona, I can get that for you. I just think with your mastery of the DME it is a great troubleshooting step. We can see if we need to target a specific module for true issue resolution (TCU, DSC, etc). I agree, your hack won't be our end fix, but it'll shine a definitive light on what is needed to be addressed.
Discussion about issues encountered whilst converting to M3 Flash and GWS
- Thread starter aus335iguy
- Start date
These are good thoughts, I agree with your points. I am not sure what is going on but I've seen mention torque limit being sent to transmission as per @dyezak 's comments (probably due to implausible RPM for expected FD ratio).
I would put my money on FD ratio being out of spec, transmission is reporting that to car and car is reducing torque to prevent grenading components while 'scanning' for correct RPM. Where does that RPM expectation come from? The EGS programming itself? DSC unit?
I am not running a stock tune; the car is not happy with removal of cats nor the high flow inlets installed (overboost issue). That being said, I can flash to stock if it will help diagnose issues but my car might throw false positives.
I can help with logs if @dyezak is unable to, or if you need more data. Are you needing a full throttle shift? 3->4 gear shift?
Getting a stock DCT shift log is available in my previous logs before GWS installation: https://datazap.me/u/dg/wedge-performance-dct-v6
Unfortunately, my time with this retrofit is relatively limited because my car is a daily driver and I drive 3.5 hours to work and back. Performing this retrofit over the weekend gave ample time to get it installed but it doesn't seem like the laggy shifts are easy to solve. It doesn't seem like the best idea to leave the GWS installed? If I drive lightly it might be OK....?
I would *LOVE* to find female 10pin connector and female 'sport button' connector to allow making a harness to switch between the two GWS shifters. The coding is relatively quick but rewiring is a pain.
Just confirmed I'll be able to pick up a DSC assembly from an 2008 M3 here in a couple hours. Should be simple to check the coding/flash on it but I won't be able to swap the unit for a couple days.
For the times when I just can't use the correct plug, these always seem help out. Just simple breadboard jumpers. They usually fit right inside most female plugs and some tape holds it together.
You can get the black male/female plugs in various pinouts
If you do a canbus jumper be sure to twist the hi/low wires
https://www.ebay.com/itm/T1-3X-40pc...324418&hash=item35f2e59723:g:U70AAOSwZlZaAQVW
You can get the black male/female plugs in various pinouts
If you do a canbus jumper be sure to twist the hi/low wires
https://www.ebay.com/itm/T1-3X-40pc...324418&hash=item35f2e59723:g:U70AAOSwZlZaAQVW
Find ECU and Winkfp only show one ZB for the DSCM90 and that's 7846816 and the one for DSCM80 (1M)? is 7846411 if that helps at all.
I glanced at one of Hectors logs and didn’t spot any but I only glanced... I agree switch it off see what it does. Easy test to do quick and allows us to eliminate that scenario.
I have @juld0zer digging out a DSC and I’ll have a crack at flashing it on the weekend. I have some time now to update the guide as well.
He’s not very active on forums however once I described the behaviour his words” sounds like a variance in the expected vs actual shaft speed”. There is a relearn procedure however it’s only within factory limitations. Whether that means M3 or 335 limitations is the question. Doing a relearn may lead to other issues so I wouldn’t advise anyone to do it.
He’s not very active on forums however once I described the behaviour his words” sounds like a variance in the expected vs actual shaft speed”. There is a relearn procedure however it’s only within factory limitations. Whether that means M3 or 335 limitations is the question. Doing a relearn may lead to other issues so I wouldn’t advise anyone to do it.
Good news and bad.
Bad: The DSC module I went to get was $600...so I passed on that. I'll hold off on that for now.
Good: Got the Driveshaft and axles to finish up my M3 diff retrofit. I'll get started on that soon.
Maybe Good: The owner of ///MPoriumBMW told me about Fast Attack Motorsports and Jim Colley who is doing DCT retrofits for the SMG V10 cars. I reached out to Jim to see if he had any of these issues when he developed his DCT retrofit for the V10. Maybe he encountered this and already knows how to resolve it (or knows what the root cause is).
Bad: The DSC module I went to get was $600...so I passed on that. I'll hold off on that for now.
Good: Got the Driveshaft and axles to finish up my M3 diff retrofit. I'll get started on that soon.
Maybe Good: The owner of ///MPoriumBMW told me about Fast Attack Motorsports and Jim Colley who is doing DCT retrofits for the SMG V10 cars. I reached out to Jim to see if he had any of these issues when he developed his DCT retrofit for the V10. Maybe he encountered this and already knows how to resolve it (or knows what the root cause is).
Great idea reaching out to Jim. Is he on these boards ? I’ve seen him in the FB group...
I reckon the m3 diff ratio will fix it so good luck.
If it does fix it though we then need to figure out how to fix it for people that don’t want to change ratios too much if at all.
Bill has picked a ratio between M3 and 335i that will hopefully be ok and not everyone(Me
) is going to be able or willing to do that.
If it does fix it though we then need to figure out how to fix it for people that don’t want to change ratios too much if at all.
Bill has picked a ratio between M3 and 335i that will hopefully be ok and not everyone(Me
) is going to be able or willing to do that.
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For information...
The 335i uses MK60 DSC and the M3 uses MK60e5 I can not see any physical difference in the units except that in the case of cars equiped with cruise with braking the Longitudinal sensor is integrated within the DSC unit itself. This would explain why there are so many variants of these things.
from here
https://www.newtis.info/tisv2/a/en/...traction-control-system/sensor-system/Xdn0dnz
The LDM control unit is no longer fitted on vehicles with option 544 ”Cruise control with brake function”. Because of a software modification in the DSC control unit (DSC Mk60E5), the DSC control unit assumes control of the functions of the LDM control unit. LDM = ”longitudinal dynamics management”
Interesting point to note RHD and LHD DSC units CAN NOT be interchanged as the RHD version is rotated 90 degrees. The internal longitudinal sensor is also rotated Because of the space needed, the DSC unit is rotated through 90° on RHD vehicles.
from here https://www.newtis.info/tisv2/a/en/e92-325i-cou/repair-manuals/34-brakes/24F0wZj
'> E87, E90, E91, E92, E93
This means that the longitudinal-acceleration sensor in the DSC control unit also has to be turned through 90°.'
US vehicles without NAV are wired slightly different in that wheel speed sensors go to the TCU of all things !
The 335i uses MK60 DSC and the M3 uses MK60e5 I can not see any physical difference in the units except that in the case of cars equiped with cruise with braking the Longitudinal sensor is integrated within the DSC unit itself. This would explain why there are so many variants of these things.
from here
https://www.newtis.info/tisv2/a/en/...traction-control-system/sensor-system/Xdn0dnz
The LDM control unit is no longer fitted on vehicles with option 544 ”Cruise control with brake function”. Because of a software modification in the DSC control unit (DSC Mk60E5), the DSC control unit assumes control of the functions of the LDM control unit. LDM = ”longitudinal dynamics management”
Interesting point to note RHD and LHD DSC units CAN NOT be interchanged as the RHD version is rotated 90 degrees. The internal longitudinal sensor is also rotated Because of the space needed, the DSC unit is rotated through 90° on RHD vehicles.
from here https://www.newtis.info/tisv2/a/en/e92-325i-cou/repair-manuals/34-brakes/24F0wZj
'> E87, E90, E91, E92, E93
This means that the longitudinal-acceleration sensor in the DSC control unit also has to be turned through 90°.'
US vehicles without NAV are wired slightly different in that wheel speed sensors go to the TCU of all things !
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Looked through the DSC trace from the M3 and one setting "M3 Construction"would be interesting to look at in 'Dummy to see what the variants are...
RPA
not active
MSA
active
M3_ CONSTRUCTION
wert_05
M3_ GEARBOX
wert_01
M3_UEBER TAX_MUE_0
wert_01
M3_UEBER TAX_MUE_1_2
wert_01
MDYNAMIC_MODE_USA
active
M3_PRE_MSR
not active
STEERING ANGLE CHANNEL
wert_00
LAT_EBD
active
US_VEHICLE
not active
POHO
not active
DDS_PLUS
not active
TURN OFF BARENCE _DSC
active
PRINT MODEL_HA
wert_00
PRINT MODEL_VA
wert_00
RPA
not active
MSA
active
M3_ CONSTRUCTION
wert_05
M3_ GEARBOX
wert_01
M3_UEBER TAX_MUE_0
wert_01
M3_UEBER TAX_MUE_1_2
wert_01
MDYNAMIC_MODE_USA
active
M3_PRE_MSR
not active
STEERING ANGLE CHANNEL
wert_00
LAT_EBD
active
US_VEHICLE
not active
POHO
not active
DDS_PLUS
not active
TURN OFF BARENCE _DSC
active
PRINT MODEL_HA
wert_00
PRINT MODEL_VA
wert_00
I looked at those in Dummy and it doesn't appear that anyone has spent any time decoding the DSC components. So there aren't any helpful hints there like in the CIC, NFRM, KOMBI, etc modules.
Found out that the Mk60 DSC module is being used in motorsport because of its adaptability. Essentially because it houses almost all that you need in one compact unit with two brake inputs and four brake outputs its straightforward to retro into a racecar.
Heres a thread thats related - Interesting - These guys had to have figured out how to adapt wheel speed sensors
They've also adapted trim pots to adjust the ABS intervention......
https://rennlist.com/forums/data-ac...6-bmw-teves-mk60-abs-data-to-aim-loggers.html
Some differences between the two
the Teves Mk60E5 is 1M baud rate
The channels from the Mk60E5 are:
4 wheel speeds (CAN)
4 wheel speeds (digital output)
4 brake pressures
master brake pressure
ABS alarm warning (CAN)
ABS alarm warning (analog output)
abs active
yaw rate
g force lat
g force long
The Mk60 channels are:
4 wheel speeds (CAN)
4 wheel speeds (digital output)
4 brake pressures
ABS alarm warning (CAN)
ABS alarm warning (analog output)
Maybe these guys aren't aware that MK60 modules with active cruise have lat and long sensors or maybe the literature from BMW isn't 100% accurate
Heres a thread thats related - Interesting - These guys had to have figured out how to adapt wheel speed sensors
They've also adapted trim pots to adjust the ABS intervention......
https://rennlist.com/forums/data-ac...6-bmw-teves-mk60-abs-data-to-aim-loggers.html
Some differences between the two
the Teves Mk60E5 is 1M baud rate
The channels from the Mk60E5 are:
4 wheel speeds (CAN)
4 wheel speeds (digital output)
4 brake pressures
master brake pressure
ABS alarm warning (CAN)
ABS alarm warning (analog output)
abs active
yaw rate
g force lat
g force long
The Mk60 channels are:
4 wheel speeds (CAN)
4 wheel speeds (digital output)
4 brake pressures
ABS alarm warning (CAN)
ABS alarm warning (analog output)
Maybe these guys aren't aware that MK60 modules with active cruise have lat and long sensors or maybe the literature from BMW isn't 100% accurate
MSR=Engine drag torque regulation. This is for opening the throttles when down shifting so that you don't get too much throttle off oversteer... Must turn that off
How much did you spend on m3 components? Did you pick up entire rear end (subframe, axles, diff, hubs, etc?).
@aus335iguy thank you for all the research! I am still confused why DSC is our suspect; is transmission thinking it is slipping and triggering traction issues?
I drove the car 20 or so miles. If I am light on throttle it seems to do OK but does not like shifting at all. I might be able to drive to work in it, really don’t want to go to stock IS GWS.
I reckon the m3 diff ratio will fix it so good luck.
If it does fix it though we then need to figure out how to fix it for people that don’t want to change ratios too much if at all.
Bill has picked a ratio between M3 and 335i that will hopefully be ok and not everyone(Me
The 2.81 is the only ratio that is confirmed to work in both. I wouldn't have a problem with a 3.15 if the N54 made power to 8+k rpm but it doesn't. Just look at a gear calculator with the DCT ratios applied, and I'm using a 275/35-19 tire in the calculations. With a 2.56, in 6th gear at 6k rpm you're at 154 mph, with a 3.15, 123 mph, with a 2.93, 135 mph, with a 2.81, 141 mph, with a 2.65, 149 mph. All those gear options are available, if you know where to look
. It's a added expense but I think I'll be happier in the long run just from what I've heard Terry say. I do 1/2 mile events so it's almost a necessity for me.
So to be clear the reason your choosing that ratio is because it’s been known to be tolerated by both m3 and 335is?
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