CES Motorsport - SteedSpeed Twin Scroll Manifold Part2

Nov 5, 2016
615
624
0
Bay Area
Um, o
I thought this looked REALLY familiar:

https://spaturbousa.com/collections...-t3-cast-manifold-spa-turbo-tmb02-new-product

s-l1600.jpg
Um, doesn't look very similar at all. One is a cast single scroll T3 flanged manifold (not ideal for the N54). The other is a CNC two-part Tig welded twin scroll T4 flanged manifold (very ideal for the N54). The devil is in the details.
 

dyezak

Major
May 4, 2017
1,768
1,518
0
Plano TX
Ride
335is
Um, o
Um, doesn't look very similar at all. One is a cast single scroll T3 flanged manifold (not ideal for the N54). The other is a CNC two-part Tig welded twin scroll T4 flanged manifold (very ideal for the N54). The devil is in the details.

Familiar. The runner paths are the same as is the very unique wastegate mount.

And I thought this new one was simply a pic of a 3d printed prototype that would be cast. I didn't know that it was CNC welded until after that post. Incredible. An awesome way to think outside the box.
 

Hokie_335i

Specialist
Jul 29, 2017
51
24
0
North Carolina
Ride
2009 E90 335i 6MT
Definitely interested in this. It will be good to see other bottom mount options next year when I make my decision on which kit to go with.
 

Jake@MHD

Major
Platinum Vendor
Nov 7, 2016
1,593
2,058
0
Philly
Wait...Are you the guy who won that contest?

I actually won the contest as well lol. It was back when I was still on stock turbos. After the numerous delays and revisions though, I just opted for the most expensive T4 cummins manifold, sold it, and Leen was nice enough to drop ship directly to the person.

Their redesign looks great too! Looking forward to seeing it in action.
 
Nov 5, 2016
615
624
0
Bay Area
Familiar. The runner paths are the same as is the very unique wastegate mount.

And I thought this new one was simply a pic of a 3d printed prototype that would be cast. I didn't know that it was CNC welded until after that post. Incredible. An awesome way to think outside the box.
Yes, and a Focus RS Looks familiar to a regular Focus unless you ignore all the details that make it different
 
Last edited:

island road

Corporal
Nov 21, 2016
168
127
0
Boston
Ride
535xiT 2010 M Sport
Wait...Are you the guy who won that contest?

Yup thats me. Years back I found some information on Leen making a N54 manifold, he even had some pictures of a prototype on his website at the time. I asked him about starting up the project again and nothing came of it. Sometime later he had a free giveaway on his FB for a manifold, for the hell of it I entered and just so happen to win and told him I wanted one for the N54 so he sparked it back up. He then held another free give away and Jake from Motiv just so happen to win so now he had two reason to start making it again. Safe to say its been a long time coming.

Steed has been good about it though, he offered to send me whatever manifold I wanted but at this point I figured I wanted long enough so lets see how it turns out. I sold my 335 that I had planned on putting it on, if I ever get my hands on one I will try it with my wagon.
 

doublespaces

Administrator
Oct 18, 2016
9,303
4,331
0
AZ
Ride
2009 E93 335i
Yup thats me. Years back I found some information on Leen making a N54 manifold, he even had some pictures of a prototype on his website at the time. I asked him about starting up the project again and nothing came of it. Sometime later he had a free giveaway on his FB for a manifold, for the hell of it I entered and just so happen to win and told him I wanted one for the N54 so he sparked it back up. He then held another free give away and Jake from Motiv just so happen to win so now he had two reason to start making it again. Safe to say its been a long time coming.

Steed has been good about it though, he offered to send me whatever manifold I wanted but at this point I figured I wanted long enough so lets see how it turns out. I sold my 335 that I had planned on putting it on, if I ever get my hands on one I will try it with my wagon.

I look forward to seeing that wagon build!
 

JohnCES

Lurker
Dec 8, 2016
15
47
0
Special thanks to Tyler @ Spoolstreet for reaching out to us to update everyone on this project.

We have been in collaboration with Leen from the very beginning to get him to do another twinscroll manifold for us utilizing the N54 platform. It took us 2 years just to convince him to start doing BMW manifolds again after he began phasing out the HPF manifolds he had converted to the E36 BMW's for us, but we finally got on board together to make something happen which we were very excited about. So a special thanks needs to go to Leen Steed for working with us to make this a reality! After having run the previous open 2 piece steed design as part of our E36 turbo kits for so many years, which we were very impressed with the build quality and performance... we were ready to continue moving forward on different platforms, and Leen finally had some spare time, and spare machines to be able to pump out some more manifolds for us gas burners :) For anyone who is not familiar with Steedspeed, they produce some of the best if not the best diesel manifolds in the industry. Very durable, CNC'd pieces that flow like a tubular manifold, but with the durability that exceeds any cast type manifold for a very reasonable price... We currently have the new Steed BMW E36 twinscroll manifolds Leen did for us out and in production with excellent results... check out our facebook and instagram posts for more info.... but as of now, we are finally back on the N54 project.

It’s definitely been an uphill battle to get this off the ground, but with the final revision of the N54 manifold finally in hand, we can share a little background to what has been going on and what took so long as well... We have been keeping a low profile about this N54 project until we had all the kinks worked out, and just finished the preliminary test fitments on this 3rd revision to the manifold design we had Leen do for us just this week. While there are a few issues that still need to be addressed, the overall fitment seems very promising with only some minor modifications for it to be up to our standards of fitment and quality we want from our turbo kits we offer.

So onto a little background info about this project...

The main goal of our N54 single turbo project was to achieve close to “factory like” spool of the smaller oem twins, but with the top end flow capabilities of a larger single turbo. This design would also allow for half the amount of hardware to be installed, ie... only one turbo... and with the design of the TS manifold and single WG feature, it also eliminated the excessive piping and hardware required to run a dual re-routed WG system... A very simple setup with maximum impact to performance and response. The initial prototype design was tailored around the Borg Warner 8374/9180 EFR series turbos with the IWG and IWG WG housing, eliminating the need for an external WG altogether. Along with the BW EFR’s integrated bypass in the turbo and MAC solenoid, it also eliminated the need for any of this additional hardware as well... Again, simple... I have to give a special thanks to Goeff Racer at Full Race that was more than helpful in setting us up with the BW turbos, housings, and components we used throughout the entire testing process utilizing this turbo, along with some of his valuable insight.... The main challenges of this setup were the size and bulk of the EFR turbo itself, as well as the Internal WG design. While flow and spool were ridiculously amazing for such a large turbo once we had the prototype kit together, boost control was also out of control with the design of the EFR turbo and IWG housing, which simply could not bypass the amount of air necessary to regulate boost pressures below 20 psi, and ultimately defeated the purpose of the IWG design as a viable “street friendly” turbo system for the masses. That, and the size of the turbo itself, (which made fitment too tight for a bottom mount bolt on kit while trying to incorporate the IWG canister beside this monster sized turbo), were what led to the ultimate demise of this prototype system. This first manifold Leen had designed for us, which had no external wg port, meant we were very limited to what type of turbo we could use... We played around with this design probably too much over many months, trying multiple different solutions including porting the IWG housing of the BW turbo to help bypas more air with still minimal effect. We ultimately had Leen incorporate an external gate to the manifold in the 2nd revision of the manifold design to try and alleviate some of the boost creep symptoms, and eventually ended up having to run both the internal and external wastegates in tandem to regulate boost properly the way we wanted. You can see in the preliminary testing we did on the attached dyno graph that we were easily achieving 400wtq by 3000rpm @ 15 to 16 psi on a base 93 octane 50/50 meth injection tune with this setup...

335 8374 dual wg dynos steed rev2 dec 2016.jpg


While spool up and boost regulation were now where we wanted them... by this point, we were backtracking on our initial principle goal to keep this a simple fit and finish. Having to massage the frame of the car to fit the large compressor size of the EFR turbo, or tapping the oil pan to drain the turbo because it was so big and sat so low, were two of the biggest reasons we decided to change directions.... which is why we ultimately decided to scratch the BW turbo platform and go back to the tried and proven Garrett Turbos that we have used for many years on our E36 turbo systems. Luckily by this time, Garrett had just released their Gen2 series turbos, which would give us the same types of power levels the BW turbos were offering, but in a much smaller package. We ended up going with the GTX3582R Gen 2 that is rated at 850 hp, and started testing again. While spool potential slowed by 500 rpm, it was still a very responsive system that was achieving 400wtq by 3500rpm and had even better flow characteristics and power in the top end that the BW8374 turbo was exhibiting, due to the Garrett turbo’s ability to flow an additional 100 hp over the BW turbo... as shown in the preliminary testing dyno comparison below of the BW in red versus the Garrett in yellow/green, even giving the BW an extra 2 psi of boost to boot.

335 gen2 vs BW comparison.jpg



While we had to add a BOV back into the mix, and a separate MAC solenoid, most customers already have upgraded BOV’s installed on their cars, and the MAC solenoid is a very cheap addition, so it had a minimal impact to the install and overall expense of the kit... This 3rd and hopefully last revision of the turbo manifold was done to relocate the “now smaller” Garrett turbo to raise it up high enough to allow it to drain oil back into the oem port in the block, versus the oil pan we had to tap to drain the larger BW turbo properly.... something we were most definitely not happy about having to do using the larger and bulkier BW turbo.... and an update to the overall design of the manifold itself to increase the bypass abilities of the single external WG now integrated into the turbo manifold, as well as relocate the 02’s back to a more accessible position that would not interfere with the updated external wg placement. Leen did a great job after we sent him all the measurements getting this 3rd revision almost spot on. We are in the process of modifying the turbo piping once again, and then get her back on the dyno to see the results of all the new changes, but this is hands down the best setup we have so far, and I think it will be an extremely popular upgrade for those customers looking for twinscroll performance out of a larger single turbo that is efficient and easy to install, and one that offers the top end performance a larger single turbo can provide with minimal sacrifice to spool up and driveability. We plan to offer a 600/700 whp “street” turbo system option, and then also a close to 1000whp capable “race” option for customers with built motors utilizing the Garrett Gen2 3584R. We will be offering tuning with this system which is currently in development, but we know there are also customers who may be interested in just the hardware only. We will be more able to address these questions along with pricing and availability once we have the testing done on this new 3rd manifold revision. Hope this answers a few of the questions out there!

The CES Motorsport Team
 

foe516

Specialist
Nov 5, 2016
80
15
0
11730
Special thanks to Tyler @ Spoolstreet for reaching out to us to update everyone on this project.

We have been in collaboration with Leen from the very beginning to get him to do another twinscroll manifold for us utilizing the N54 platform.

The CES Motorsport Team

anhy ideas on ball park price for the street version?
 

Abacus38

Lieutenant
Nov 2, 2016
643
385
0
34
Tampa/Orlando, FL
Ride
2007 Ti Ag 335i
Special thanks to Tyler @ Spoolstreet for reaching out to us to update everyone on this project.

We have been in collaboration with Leen from the very beginning to get him to do another twinscroll manifold for us utilizing the N54 platform. It took us 2 years just to convince him to start doing BMW manifolds again after he began phasing out the HPF manifolds he had converted to the E36 BMW's for us, but we finally got on board together to make something happen which we were very excited about. So a special thanks needs to go to Leen Steed for working with us to make this a reality! After having run the previous open 2 piece steed design as part of our E36 turbo kits for so many years, which we were very impressed with the build quality and performance... we were ready to continue moving forward on different platforms, and Leen finally had some spare time, and spare machines to be able to pump out some more manifolds for us gas burners :) For anyone who is not familiar with Steedspeed, they produce some of the best if not the best diesel manifolds in the industry. Very durable, CNC'd pieces that flow like a tubular manifold, but with the durability that exceeds any cast type manifold for a very reasonable price... We currently have the new Steed BMW E36 twinscroll manifolds Leen did for us out and in production with excellent results... check out our facebook and instagram posts for more info.... but as of now, we are finally back on the N54 project.

It’s definitely been an uphill battle to get this off the ground, but with the final revision of the N54 manifold finally in hand, we can share a little background to what has been going on and what took so long as well... We have been keeping a low profile about this N54 project until we had all the kinks worked out, and just finished the preliminary test fitments on this 3rd revision to the manifold design we had Leen do for us just this week. While there are a few issues that still need to be addressed, the overall fitment seems very promising with only some minor modifications for it to be up to our standards of fitment and quality we want from our turbo kits we offer.

So onto a little background info about this project...

The main goal of our N54 single turbo project was to achieve close to “factory like” spool of the smaller oem twins, but with the top end flow capabilities of a larger single turbo. This design would also allow for half the amount of hardware to be installed, ie... only one turbo... and with the design of the TS manifold and single WG feature, it also eliminated the excessive piping and hardware required to run a dual re-routed WG system... A very simple setup with maximum impact to performance and response. The initial prototype design was tailored around the Borg Warner 8374/9180 EFR series turbos with the IWG and IWG WG housing, eliminating the need for an external WG altogether. Along with the BW EFR’s integrated bypass in the turbo and MAC solenoid, it also eliminated the need for any of this additional hardware as well... Again, simple... I have to give a special thanks to Goeff Racer at Full Race that was more than helpful in setting us up with the BW turbos, housings, and components we used throughout the entire testing process utilizing this turbo, along with some of his valuable insight.... The main challenges of this setup were the size and bulk of the EFR turbo itself, as well as the Internal WG design. While flow and spool were ridiculously amazing for such a large turbo once we had the prototype kit together, boost control was also out of control with the design of the EFR turbo and IWG housing, which simply could not bypass the amount of air necessary to regulate boost pressures below 20 psi, and ultimately defeated the purpose of the IWG design as a viable “street friendly” turbo system for the masses. That, and the size of the turbo itself, (which made fitment too tight for a bottom mount bolt on kit while trying to incorporate the IWG canister beside this monster sized turbo), were what led to the ultimate demise of this prototype system. This first manifold Leen had designed for us, which had no external wg port, meant we were very limited to what type of turbo we could use... We played around with this design probably too much over many months, trying multiple different solutions including porting the IWG housing of the BW turbo to help bypas more air with still minimal effect. We ultimately had Leen incorporate an external gate to the manifold in the 2nd revision of the manifold design to try and alleviate some of the boost creep symptoms, and eventually ended up having to run both the internal and external wastegates in tandem to regulate boost properly the way we wanted. You can see in the preliminary testing we did on the attached dyno graph that we were easily achieving 400wtq by 3000rpm @ 15 to 16 psi on a base 93 octane 50/50 meth injection tune with this setup...

View attachment 6379

While spool up and boost regulation were now where we wanted them... by this point, we were backtracking on our initial principle goal to keep this a simple fit and finish. Having to massage the frame of the car to fit the large compressor size of the EFR turbo, or tapping the oil pan to drain the turbo because it was so big and sat so low, were two of the biggest reasons we decided to change directions.... which is why we ultimately decided to scratch the BW turbo platform and go back to the tried and proven Garrett Turbos that we have used for many years on our E36 turbo systems. Luckily by this time, Garrett had just released their Gen2 series turbos, which would give us the same types of power levels the BW turbos were offering, but in a much smaller package. We ended up going with the GTX3582R Gen 2 that is rated at 850 hp, and started testing again. While spool potential slowed by 500 rpm, it was still a very responsive system that was achieving 400wtq by 3500rpm and had even better flow characteristics and power in the top end that the BW8374 turbo was exhibiting, due to the Garrett turbo’s ability to flow an additional 100 hp over the BW turbo... as shown in the preliminary testing dyno comparison below of the BW in red versus the Garrett in yellow/green, even giving the BW an extra 2 psi of boost to boot.

View attachment 6380


While we had to add a BOV back into the mix, and a separate MAC solenoid, most customers already have upgraded BOV’s installed on their cars, and the MAC solenoid is a very cheap addition, so it had a minimal impact to the install and overall expense of the kit... This 3rd and hopefully last revision of the turbo manifold was done to relocate the “now smaller” Garrett turbo to raise it up high enough to allow it to drain oil back into the oem port in the block, versus the oil pan we had to tap to drain the larger BW turbo properly.... something we were most definitely not happy about having to do using the larger and bulkier BW turbo.... and an update to the overall design of the manifold itself to increase the bypass abilities of the single external WG now integrated into the turbo manifold, as well as relocate the 02’s back to a more accessible position that would not interfere with the updated external wg placement. Leen did a great job after we sent him all the measurements getting this 3rd revision almost spot on. We are in the process of modifying the turbo piping once again, and then get her back on the dyno to see the results of all the new changes, but this is hands down the best setup we have so far, and I think it will be an extremely popular upgrade for those customers looking for twinscroll performance out of a larger single turbo that is efficient and easy to install, and one that offers the top end performance a larger single turbo can provide with minimal sacrifice to spool up and driveability. We plan to offer a 600/700 whp “street” turbo system option, and then also a close to 1000whp capable “race” option for customers with built motors utilizing the Garrett Gen2 3584R. We will be offering tuning with this system which is currently in development, but we know there are also customers who may be interested in just the hardware only. We will be more able to address these questions along with pricing and availability once we have the testing done on this new 3rd manifold revision. Hope this answers a few of the questions out there!

The CES Motorsport Team

Do you think a 7170 would fit the manifold?
 

335i_lou

Specialist
Nov 13, 2016
82
30
0
Raleigh, NC
Ride
E90 335i, FBO, inlets, outlets
Gawd!!! I want it one..... :grin: this thing is a work of art! I can’t wait to see the whole kit together and what it’ll make!