What is the best BBK for the money?

VACust

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Made a short video yesterday as I ran a set of ///M Performance calipers through the Fab Factory caliper treatment. Figured I would share the video and a few pictures here. Machining the hardened steel inserts has took a little bit of process refining over the sets of these I have done but finally have it on lock and getting some perfect shiny toolpath on these!


This should make most people's decision easier.
 
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Mark Winter

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Not a huge fan of the Porsche wording on a BMW but those brakes look great. How did you get them so cheap? They are $2K right now on sale.
Im with ya on the wording, they are 6Piston Brembo made for the Cayenne, I kinda did a poll and most people said keep it rather than powder coating over, its still German and most people believe porsche is an upgrade from BMW at least its still German though, I would have had a hard time putting CTSV brakes on thats for sure! ECS had a blowout sell last Christmas and for the price I couldn't pass up otherwise I more than likely I would have gone with Stoptech/Wilwood
 
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doublespaces

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No modification, the kit came with the bracket and steel lines for the price I couldn't pass up, Just need 19" wheels to clear the massive rotor!

Interesting, so they require a bracket instead of being milled? I think I've seen threads on this before, I'll have to take a look.
 

A4RingedONE8T

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Interesting, so they require a bracket instead of being milled? I think I've seen threads on this before, I'll have to take a look.

The Porsche calipers are radial mount (perpendicular to the factory mounts) as are most aftermarket calipers, so the typical setup with a caliper and carrier. Only since manufacturers are getting cheap have these gone to more direct bolt on fitment. One less part, that much less cost for the manufacturer, also more rigidity.
 
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A4RingedONE8T

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BQTuning

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E89 Z4 35i 6MT M Sport
I don't have a Z4, an M5, or that ECS kit to work with so unless it's just some very specific machining specs that you supply, not much I can do here, sorry.

-Shawn-

If it helps the E89 Z4 35i(s) uses the same front end and braking system as the 3 series if that helps

- Dimitri
 

doublespaces

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Okay, I just did this:
5iys3GF.png


My question is, @A4RingedONE8T can you powder coat these a different color for me if I send them to you for machining?

There is one left by the way:
(Link removed as it is no longer relevant)


EDIT:

Okay, so I made a change, I decided to go with the Yellow set instead. They are significantly cheaper, they can be had for less than $1300 shipped on eBay(for now). The only downside, is you'll have to source your own rear rotors:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/BMW-OEM-M-Performance-Brake-System-Yellow-2012-2017-328i-335i-428i-34112221446/322767801885?ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT&_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649
 

doublespaces

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Also, here is some info stolen from Turner that sums up all the differences in the brake systems:

Calipers:

Car has grey Calipers:
Grey (unfinished) calipers are the stock part used around the world. However, in the US, it could also mean it came equipped with one of the M Sport Brakes options (see below). Following the logic in the BMW parts program, there are multiple M Sport brakes for US cars. It's not obvious which brakes BMW installed on your car. The option code remained the same (S2NHA) but there are two different sets of part numbers related to that code. You definitely want to be clear on which brakes you have because rotors of different sizes are not interchangeable. One dead giveaway is from the rear caliper - a single piston caliper is for the stock 335i brake sizes; a 2-piston Brembo caliper is for the larger brakes.

US M Sport trim package (P337A): The M Sport is one of the trim packages offered when the car is ordered (base, Luxury, Modern, Sport, or M Sport). It was around $3,000 and got you 18" wheels, M steering wheel, M Sport aerodynamic kit, Sport instrument cluster, and glossy Shadowline black exterior trim. The brakes are mostly the same as the other trim lines except for the front pads. The front pads were actually the same as used on the M Performance accessory kit. Many drivers complain that they lack feel and initial bite. Luckily all of the F30 335 calipers share the same pad shape so pads can be interchanged. The rotors and rear brakes are all the same as a standard 335i/435i.

US M Sport Brake Upgrade 1 (S2NHA) (pads only): In the BMW parts database are pads listed as "M Sport S2NHA" that fit the stock 4 piston front calipers and the single-piston rear calipers. These also happen to be the stock base pads used in Europe. This was a $350-400 option on 2012-2013 cars and could be added to ANY trim package (even a base model). The Euro pads have much more bite and dust a lot more than the stock pads. The bite makes the brakes feel stronger but the dust can be excessive for some people. The rotors are blank - no drilling, dimpling, or slotting.

  • Specs:
  • Front: Brembo 4-piston calipers, grey/unfinished; 340mm blank brake rotors
  • Rear: OEM (Bosch, Ate, etc) 1-piston calipers, grey/unfinished; 330mm blank brake rotors

M Sport Brake Upgrade 2 (S2NH/S2NHA) (pads, calipers, rotors): Sometime during 2012-2013 production BMW changed the M Sport Brake option to include larger front and rear rotors, a different front caliper (still 4-piston Brembo), and 2-piston Brembo rear calipers. It was a $650 option but still called "M Sport S2NHA" and could be added to ANY trim package (even a base model). This kit was the same as the M Sport offered in Canada/Europe. The calipers should be blue with an ///M logo but there's a slim chance they could be grey/unfinished with no logo. The front pads were a similar aggressive Euro-spec pad as above. The rotors are blank but the dimpled/slotted rotors from the M Performance brake kits are a direct fit if you want to change their appearance.

  • Specs:
  • Front: Brembo 4-piston calipers, grey or blue; 370mm blank brake rotors
  • Rear: Brembo 2-piston calipers, grey or blue; 345mm blank brake rotors

Car has Blue Calipers
In Canada and Europe, the M Sport brake option (option code 2NH) came with blue Brembo calipers in the front and rear and larger rotors. This kit has the same specs as the M Performance accessory kit but with the blank rotor design and blue calipers instead of red, orange, or yellow. Officially the US did not get the blue calipers in our M Sport upgrade until the 2014 model year. All 2014 models (including F32 Coupe and F22 2-series) with the M Sport Brakes Upgrade (still called S2NHA and $650) used the same components as the rest of the world. These are the same brakes as what was standard on the M235i/iX.

  • Specs:
  • Front: Brembo 4-piston calipers, painted blue with an ///M logo; 370mm blank brake rotors
  • Rear: Brembo 2-piston calipers, painted blue with an ///M logo; 345mm blank brake rotors

Since the M Sport shares the same specs as the M Performance, the parts are interchangeable. You can add M Performance dimpled/slotted rotors to an M Sport car and they will be a direct fit. They are also a little lighter than the standard blank design. Pads are also interchangeable among the calipers. The M Sport pads are more aggressive and give more bite and feel than the M Performance pads.

Car has Red, Yellow-Gold, or Orange Calipers
This is the M Performance accessory brake upgrade. It was offered through the BMW dealer as an accessory retrofit and would have been installed by the BMW dealer or purchased from another parts supplier such as Turner Motorsport. From 2014-on they could have been installed at the port of entry. The calipers were red, orange, or yellow-gold but they were the same Brembo calipers offered on the M Sport Upgrade above. The rotors were also the same sizes as the M Sport and had a dimple/slot design on them. They were also a 2-piece design with an aluminum hat that saved a little bit of weight.

  • Specs:
  • Front: Brembo 4-piston calipers, painted red, yellow-gold, or orange with ///M logo; 370mm dimpled/slotted brake rotors
  • Rear: Brembo 2-piston calipers, painted red, yellow-gold, or orange with ///M logo; 345mm dimpled/slotted brake rotors

The M Performance brakes sold for a large premium over the stock or M Sport brakes ($2,000 or more plus installation). Yet the rotor sizes are the same as on the M Sport. You did get a sporty looking rotor though. If you have the M Sport brakes you can add the M Performance rotors without modification. If you're unhappy with the feel and performance of the M Performance brakes, try using the pads from the M Sport package (see below).

Pads:
For the front caliper, the brake pads are all the same. Even though BMW has different part numbers for the pads and for the calipers, the pads are all the same shape and size. Only the compound changes between part numbers. This is unusual because most big brake kits will use a different pad. But with the F30 calipers the pad remained the same. See the photos below for comparisons. Here is the pad breakdown along with some notes on the differences:
PackagePart NumberNotes
US stock/base34106859067performs with low bite and low brake dust levels
M Sport
Euro stock/base
34116865460
(34116859282)
lots of initial bite but also lots of dust; performance drivers will like this pad a lot but daily drivers will probably dislike the amount of dust from them; if you were unhappy with the brake feel in your stock setup you can swap the M Sport pads in for an immediate improvement.
M Performance Kit34116859066low dust and low feel; a lot of M Performance customers have been put off by the pads that came with this kit - they're dull feeling and totally out of character with what they expected. In this case we recommend using the M Sport pads with more bite.
Centric Semi-Metallic104.16090a street pad with good initial bite and feel but with very low levels of brake dust
StopTech Street Performance309.16090a sport pad designed for aggressive street use. These are similar to the M Sport/Euro pads where they have a lot of bite and a very high temperature rating but need a little bit of heat from aggressive driving to work best.
Pagid race padsU4931race pads are super aggressive and produce more braking torque than what a typical street pad is designed to create. They are also engineered to withstand the heat in a racing environment. Special materials are used to ensure the pads won't fade or come apart at the extreme temperatures found on a racetrack (over 1,000 degrees F). Race pads like the Pagid Yellow shown below will give phenomenal braking performance but because of the specialized materials they should be avoided for street use.

How did BMW use the same pad for a larger brake rotor? Yes, the overall rotor diameter is larger on the M Sport and M Performance packages. But look closely and you'll see the swept area of the rotor (the section that the pad actually touches) is the same. The 30mm of additional size comes from expanding the center hub. There is more material on the brake rotor hat which gives it the additional diameter.

The F80 M3/F82 M4 use the same pad shape as the M Sport/M Performance brakes.


Front Pad Comparison (showing all 335 front pads are the same shape)
brakes-F30-front-stock-pad-34106859067-labeled.jpg
brakes-F30-front-M-Sport-pad-34116865460-labeled.jpg
brakes-F30-front-M-Performance-pad-34116859066-labeled.jpg
brakes-F30-front-Pagid-Yellow-race-pads-labeled.jpg

For the rear caliper, things are a bit more traditional. The standard brakes are the single-piston sliding caliper that we're all used to. The M Sport kit used 2-piston Brembo calipers in all markets (grey for US; blue for Canada/Europe). The pads are different between single piston and 2-piston. Pad breakdown to match the fronts above:

PackagePart NumberNotes
US stock/base34206799813performs with low bite and low brake dust levels
US M Sport 12-13
Euro stock/base
(single-piston caliper)
34216850570lots of initial bite but also lots of dust; performance drivers will like this pad a lot but daily drivers will probably dislike the amount of dust from them; if you were unhappy with the brake feel in your stock setup or the M Performance brakes you can swap the M Sport pads in for an immediate improvement.
Centric Semi-Metallic
(single-piston caliper)
104.16100a street pad with good initial bite and feel but with very low levels of brake dust
StopTech Street Performance
(single-piston caliper)
309.16100a sport pad designed for aggressive street use. These are similar to the M Sport/Euro pads where they have a lot of bite and a very high temperature rating but need a little bit of heat from aggressive driving to work best.
Euro M Sport
any M Performance Kit
(2-piston caliper)
34216855474low dust and low feel; a lot of M Performance customers have been put off by the pads that came with this kit - they're dull feeling and totally out of character with what they expected. You can get a lot more bite and feel by changing the front pads but no other option exists for the rear pads.
Centric Semi-Metallic
(2-piston caliper)
104.16560a street pad with good initial bite and feel but with very low levels of brake dust
StopTech Street Performance
(2-piston caliper)
309.16560a sport pad designed for aggressive street use. These are similar to the M Sport/Euro pads where they have a lot of bite and a very high temperature rating but need a little bit of heat from aggressive driving to work best.
Pagid race pads
(2-piston rear caliper)
U4933race pads are super aggressive and produce more braking torque than what a typical street pad is designed to create. They are also engineered to withstand the heat in a racing environment. Special materials are used to ensure the pads won't fade or come apart at the extreme temperatures found on a racetrack (over 1,000 degrees F). Race pads like the Pagid Yellow shown below will give phenomenal braking performance but because of the specialized materials they should be avoided for street use.



Rear Pad Comparison (showing the differences between the single piston and 2-piston pad shapes)
brakes-34206799813-34216850570-stock-rear-335-435-brake-pad-labelled.jpg
brakes-34216855474-F30-335-F32-435-M-Sport-M-Performance-Brembo-caliper-rear-brake-pad-labelled.jpg

Rotors For the 335i there are just two front rotor sizes - 340 or 370mm. The 340mm is the standard 335/435 disc size and also used in the US M Sport upgrade option for 2012-2013. The 328/428 also used this rotor in its own S2NHA M Sport brake upgrade and was offered with a dimpled/slotted face. This can be used on the 335/435 stock brakes for an appearance upgrade. The 370mm rotor was used on the M Performance accessory kit and in the later M Sport upgrade option.

All M Sport brakes (US or Canada/Euro) used a blank rotor design - no slotting, drilling, or dimpling. The M Performance slotted/dimpled rotors are a direct replacement for the 370mm M Sport brakes.


Front Rotors
PackageRotor SizeType
stock, #34116792223340x30blank
Accessory option, #34106797602340x30dimpled/slotted
M Sport (all), #34106797606370x30blank
M Performance, #34106797603370x30dimpled/slotted
Rear Rotors
PackageRotor Dia.Type
stock, #34216864899330x20blank
M Sport (all), #34206797607345x24blank
M Performance, #34206797600345x24dimpled/slotted

rotordifferences.jpg


brakes-F30-blank-vs-dimpled-slotted-rotor-designs-w700.jpg


Trim and Option CodesBelow is a table listing the option codes and trim package codes relevant to the F30 brakes.
CodeDescription
0ZMMM Sport line
P337 or P337A (or just 0337)M Sport trim package (will include 0840 and 2PE or similar)
"A" might stand for America, indicating a different spec than the rest of the world.
0840top speed limit increase and performance tires (usually required when ordering 2NH)
2PE18" star spoke Style 400M wheels (required to clear bigger brakes)
21B18" light alloy Style 441 wheels (required to clear bigger brakes)
2A518" light alloy Style 397 wheels (required to clear bigger brakes)
2NH or S2NH or S2NHAM Sport brake upgrade
"A" might stand for America, indicating a different spec than the rest of the world.

Information is inconsistent on how the S2NHA can be ordered. It doesn't appear in either the 2012 or 2013 official ordering guides but show up in BMW ETK, Real OEM, and owner's forums. In the official 2014 ordering guide S2NHA requires 2PE and 0ZMM/P337A. In the 2015 ordering guide, they relaxed the requirements to only bigger wheels with performance tires and top speed increased. So in theory, you could have a base model 335i with no other options except for the upgraded brakes, wheels/tires, and increased top speed.
 
Last edited:

camberadam

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Feb 15, 2017
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I have my yellow kit here from the same seller (wait till you see them :hearteyes:) & M3 master cylinder. Rear calipers are w/ Shawn & I hope to see them back this week. ECS had the best price on pair of rear rotors I found. Working on getting my INPA working so I do the brake bleed procedure.
 
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doublespaces

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I have my yellow kit here from the same seller (wait till you see them :hearteyes:) & M3 master cylinder. Rear calipers are w/ Shawn & I hope to see them back this week. ECS had the best price on pair of rear rotors I found. Working on getting my INPA working so I do the brake bleed procedure.

So the M3 master cylinder is actully bigger? What else is needed besides that? Seems like I've seen a list, but can't find it now.

Also, I didn't realize the M3 also had an electric brake booster assist vacuum pump:

FgzBsCg.png
 

A4RingedONE8T

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Nov 1, 2016
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Okay, I just did this:

My question is, @A4RingedONE8T can you powder coat these a different color for me if I send them to you for machining?

There is one left by the way:
(Link removed as it is no longer relevant)


EDIT:

Okay, so I made a change, I decided to go with the Yellow set instead. They are significantly cheaper, they can be had for less than $1300 shipped on eBay(for now). The only downside, is you'll have to source your own rear rotors:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/BMW-OEM-M-Performance-Brake-System-Yellow-2012-2017-328i-335i-428i-34112221446/322767801885?ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT&_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649

Yes I can provide powdercoat, not sure exactly what they charge, I believe it's around $50/caliper. There will be labor to R&R factory boots, seals, fittings, etc. I don't have time to look up those replacement factory parts so if you'd search them out and include them when you send the calipers I'd appreciate it!

I have my yellow kit here from the same seller (wait till you see them :hearteyes:) & M3 master cylinder. Rear calipers are w/ Shawn & I hope to see them back this week. ECS had the best price on pair of rear rotors I found. Working on getting my INPA working so I do the brake bleed procedure.

They are machined, I'll get them boxed back up and out the door to you today!

You don't have to use the brake bleed procedure, after you swap out calipers and lines, just bleed the ABS unit first. Start with the two main inlet lines on the side of the ABS pump. With a pressure bleeder attached at approx. 5psi, crack the main F&R inlets one at a time, let bleed for about 10 seconds once you see fluid. Close, then move up to the top 4 hardlines, out to the four corners of the car. Again crack each one and let bleed for about 10 seconds once you see fluid. Now raise bleeder pressure to 10psi and bleed all 4 corners in your standard order. Should have no issues bleeding without the electronic/abs activation.
 

camberadam

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Feb 15, 2017
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So the M3 master cylinder is actully bigger? What else is needed besides that? Seems like I've seen a list, but can't find it now.

Also, I didn't realize the M3 also had an electric brake booster assist vacuum pump:

A new gadget for you to add!
Yes I can provide powdercoat, not sure exactly what they charge, I believe it's around $50/caliper. There will be labor to R&R factory boots, seals, fittings, etc. I don't have time to look up those replacement factory parts so if you'd search them out and include them when you send the calipers I'd appreciate it!



They are machined, I'll get them boxed back up and out the door to you today!

You don't have to use the brake bleed procedure, after you swap out calipers and lines, just bleed the ABS unit first. Start with the two main inlet lines on the side of the ABS pump. With a pressure bleeder attached at approx. 5psi, crack the main F&R inlets one at a time, let bleed for about 10 seconds once you see fluid. Close, then move up to the top 4 hardlines, out to the four corners of the car. Again crack each one and let bleed for about 10 seconds once you see fluid. Now raise bleeder pressure to 10psi and bleed all 4 corners in your standard order. Should have no issues bleeding without the electronic/abs activation.

You are the man! Just let me know how much & where to send.

i'll look into pressure bleeders. I usually manual or vacuum bleed.
 

doublespaces

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I just ordered a pair of blank E60 rotors by Zimmerman, apparently they can be used instead of the expensive performance rotors and don't require any machining: http://amzn.to/2y00rTi

They were just under $140 for the pair, shipped.

150346152 is supposedly the cross drilled part number, however I do not see them for sale in the US.
 

camberadam

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So the M3 master cylinder is actully bigger? What else is needed besides that? Seems like I've seen a list, but can't find it now.

Also, I didn't realize the M3 also had an electric brake booster assist vacuum pump:

FgzBsCg.png

Have you gotten anywhere on figuring out if this can be incorporated? I haven't done the MC yet & I'd add this as well if we can get it working.
 

doublespaces

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Have you gotten anywhere on figuring out if this can be incorporated? I haven't done the MC yet & I'd add this as well if we can get it working.

Nope. Don't think I'm going to even do the master cylinder. At least not right now.