Ad: VTT "Spline Lock" Crank Hub Solution Now Available!

[The Convert]

The Rockwell scale doesn't really matter since the same scale was used on all the parts... focus on the relative vs. the absolute. I mean, we could contact the shop and find out.... but I'm not going to. xoxo

As far as area, it depends on how you define it. That's really beyond the scope of a customer discussion, unless I'm misreading your question and you're asking something more simple. Feel free to shoot me an email if you're more specific or I'm not reading your q quite correctly.

Chris

I’m asking about the surface area because I would like to know how the area of the face compares to the area of the keyed hubs.

 

[doublespaces]

Posts from this promotional thread have been moved to the octagon in accordance to rule #4 of our vendor rules. The discussion is located here:

https://bmw.spoolstreet.com/threads/vtt-spline-lock-crank-hub-solution-now-available.4216/

 

[Chris@VargasTurboTech]

BTW, the Rockwell scale is HRC (of course) and the hub engages the crank about 8mm deep.

 

[Optigrab]

BTW, the Rockwell scale is HRC (of course) and the hub engages the crank about 8mm deep.

Are you guys offering this as an option on your built engines?

 

[Chris@VargasTurboTech]

Pretty much anything you want.

 

[Panzerfaust]

I for one am super excited to get this and ordered the full kit on day 1. Already have plans to get it installed when it arrives.

I understand why some people might be a bit curious about some factors, but if it's survived what Tony has thrown at it I think odds are it's at least good enough for 90+% of us. Like I said when we discussed the CBC, even if that product offers a 40+% increase in safety at that price it's worth it. If this spline lock + CBC combo eliminates 95% of failures for $700 I think it's hard to complain. The solution is simple and elegant, it will at the very least drastically decrease the likelihood of the major issue N54s face these days, and only one other company offers a similar solution. I've said it before but I have a huge amount of respect for the VTT guys in regards to pushing the platform forward with new products.

 

[Chris@VargasTurboTech]

Thanks for your kind words. We do enjoy innovation, actually creating things, and pushing the platform. A lot of people miss out on the value of actually creating, and instead it becomes an arms race for who has the best critical comment from their armchair. Remember, practical experience is never obsolete or irrelevant. This mindset is not unique to forums, the corporate world is rife with those people as well (that's not to say a good constructive discussion doesn't have a place -very much so!). I'm proud of that aspect of working with Tony, all of the ideas have to survive when the rubber meets the road, and worse, all parts are subjected to full-Tony treatment (never go full-Tony). We have quite a few new products coming out soon(ish…. is it ever soon enough?). I look forward to announcing their release.

Chris

 

[Panzerfaust]

Thanks for your kind words. We do enjoy innovation, actually creating things, and pushing the platform. A lot of people miss out on the value of actually creating, and instead it becomes an arms race for who has the best critical comment from their armchair. Remember, practical experience is never obsolete or irrelevant.
Chris

I completely agree. I've been accused of being a "VTT Fanboy" (despite running a competitor's turbos - sorry!) for continually praising the innovation but I can't help but point out that the naysayers are often either two steps behind in "N54 technology" or direct competition - sometimes both - but can never offer a better solution themselves, often times not even an idea. Your comment about real world experience vs armchair argument should hopefully click with people but we'll see. Whether it's the breather, CNC VC, CBC or likely soon this product... there's something to be said about the products that deliver what they advertise in the real world, that no one else even has an alternative to.

 

[Rob09msport]

I completely agree. I've been accused of being a "VTT Fanboy" (despite running a competitor's turbos - sorry!) for continually praising the innovation but I can't help but point out that the naysayers are often either two steps behind in "N54 technology" or direct competition - sometimes both - but can never offer a better solution themselves, often times not even an idea. Your comment about real world experience vs armchair argument should hopefully click with people but we'll see. Whether it's the breather, CNC VC, CBC or likely soon this product... there's something to be said about the products that deliver what they advertise in the real world, that no one else even has an alternative to.

I feel your pain I get accused as well when the only vtt product i have currently is outlets. That will be changing cause Tony hiring Chris was best thing ever he showed huge growth personally their, plus now he can focus on what he enjoys and does well instead of being stressed and upset and Chris does great job dealing with pr and drama control. Honestly forget the science I belive this will work cause Tony has always had good intentions and he stood behind his turbos when it came down to defective wheels that weren't his fault. I know he wouldn't take chance of being blamed for blowing engines and the hit to his rep. So when he says they abused and revised for 8 months until perfect , I believe it.

 

[Panzerfaust]

Got a surprise in the mail today. As always, I appreciate what @Chris@VargasTurboTech and Tony do for the platform, looks and feels like a solid piece. Can't wait to get it on!

 

[doublespaces]

Got a surprise in the mail today. As always, I appreciate what @Chris@VargasTurboTech and Tony do for the platform, looks and feels like a solid piece. Can't wait to get it on!
View attachment 16956 View attachment 16957

Nicely done, please report back the results, install thoughts, photos, etc

 

[Panzerfaust]

Nicely done, please report back the results, install thoughts, photos, etc

Thanks! Like I said on FB I unfortunately don't have the tools to do it myself so a shop will be doing it, so idk how much I'll be able to get in photos for you guys. I'm close with the owner so I'll ask his thoughts on the install though!

 

[Hydra Performance]

FWIW I'll be taking photos and documenting the install within a couple of weeks once mine comes in

 

[Panzerfaust]

FWIW I'll be taking photos and documenting the install within a couple of weeks once mine comes in

That's likely to make people more happy than my post lol, I just figured I'd get a pic out in the wild to show the quality and what it really looks like. Super solid piece, I'm excited to have it installed along with the CBC to keep my engine happy with the twins.

 

[BoostedE90]

FWIW I'll be taking photos and documenting the install within a couple of weeks once mine comes in

 

[Rob09msport]

For everyone questioning this setup, when you really sit back I understand the concern but without this product we can all agree your engine is at much greater risk and with it im pretty certain it will no longer be the failure point. However for the extreme 1k plus builds until it's more proven you have the option to go keyed but for 99 per of us this is a less expensive more DIY friendly alternative. Put it this way if anyone is still running stock block aka most of us this is more than sufficient.

 

[kayzrx82]

For everyone questioning this setup, when you really sit back I understand the concern but without this product we can all agree your engine is at much greater risk and with it im pretty certain it will no longer be the failure point. However for the extreme 1k plus builds until it's more proven you have the option to go keyed but for 99 per of us this is a less expensive more DIY friendly alternative. Put it this way if anyone is still running stock block aka most of us this is more than sufficient.

I wouldn't go as far as saying it is certain without data. In theory yes it looks promising. The vtt or the mpsi hub are no where near a diy. I would not recommend the average backyard mechanic even try a crank hub. You need special tools to install properly ( timing tool set , chain tensioner lock, a decent torque wrench, crank hub holder, a torque angle gauge, and I would suggest front main seal which requires a tool and the sealing compound for where the block splits and meets the seal. I've seen people try the front main seal without the tool and often end up leaking down the road. Most diyers don't have the timing tool and opt for the cheap eBay timing tool sets that are sometimes off or bent and doesn't come with the timing chain tensioner lock to remove the slack from the timing chain. Yes the vtt is an easier install due to no drilling but I don't want people to think this is an easy install to the point it is perceived as an easy diy. Look at all the people having issues installing inlets and outlets. Definitely suggest the average person use a skilled shop to install these.

 

[Optigrab]

I believe tony said it was not DIYable it needs to be done at a shop

 

[MoreBoost]

Agree it's definitely not a simple install and it's worth pointing out again in case people missed it.

The thing is if you are going to go to all this trouble to fit the thing then maybe a keyed solution isn't such a big leap. Yes it's a more expensive part but hopefully it's a one time thing. Keyed seems inherently more reliable.

Myself, I think I'll just secure the bolt.

From the research I have done, the majority of N54 cars not pushing crazy power never have the crank hub issue.
Many that do have the issue simply require a new bolt and the timing to be adjusted back. Catastrophic damage to valves seems rare. Yes this isn't guaranteed but based on risk and cost. That's my choice.

 

[Panzerfaust]

Agree it's definitely not a simple install and it's worth pointing out again in case people missed it.

The thing is if you are going to go to all this trouble to fit the thing then maybe a keyed solution isn't such a big leap. Yes it's a more expensive part but hopefully it's a one time thing. Keyed seems inherently more reliable.

Myself, I think I'll just secure the bolt.

From the research I have done, the majority of N54 cars not pushing crazy power never have the crank hub issue.
Many that do have the issue simply require a new bolt and the timing to be adjusted back. Catastrophic damage to valves seems rare. Yes this isn't guaranteed but based on risk and cost. That's my choice.

From what I've seen, the last part of your post seems correct too. Most people who have the issue are pushing high power and still just barely have it slip. But my whole thing when it comes to my car is being preventative even if its possibly overkill - that's why I bought the PSP oil cooler, that's why I went with MMP 1Ks, that's why I'm getting coated rod bearings put in when this goes on, that's why I want a metal intake manifold and a sturdier trans.

I can see why some people would still prefer the keyed hub and I'm not gonna try to sway them if they're set on that. But this solution seems more than capable of preventing that tiny bit of slip that happens, it's a very well designed and built piece, and for a fraction of a paycheck I think it's worth it for me. If I was aiming for some crazy 1400hp build then maybe I would've gone with a keyed solution - but my goal is more like 650-700 and running low 10s at the strip, not a built engine dyno queen that does a kill run 3 times a year just to hold a record.

I want to have a car that meets my standards of fun and is reliable while doing it. Like my previous posts stated, if this reduces my chance of a slipped hub by any decently high measurable % then it's worth it to me. And I think judging from the data and real world Tony abuse (which most humans can't even handle ) it's likely to do the trick.