Stock Turbo Love

[Silver_Sur4r_N54]

Hey Guys, I wanted to start a discussion for the guys who are stock turbo and plan to stay that way for now. For me, a guy who has about 10 points on his License , I don't think I need to go more than 500whp . With the power of stage 1 mhd and ethanol I've easily toasted many decent high powered cars while visiting Mexico. I'd be lying if I say I don't want aftermarket turbos but still love my stockers! I'm hoping we can get some guys to come in to this discussion and give some pointers as to keeping healthy stockers while turning up the boost. The absolute best mods and brands for those mods, maybe some Dyno info... and some info as to the best tuners still out there working on the n54. I have researched many of these topics before but would like to see a place where all this information can be found in one place. Lets see how this goes....

 

[iminhell1]

Heat management, good oil/frequent changes and knowing when to let out.

I'll roll over 128,000 miles today. FBO pushing 24psi right now (it's winter). But I'm on a boost by load/gear map because my hpfp just can't keep up in the midrange.
Car does consistent 11.6x's @120mph.
Also in my 3 years of ownership of this car, It's made well over 300 drag passes. Only a few hickups and those are only because of tuning issues. Nothing mechanical has failed yet.

 

[Silver_Sur4r_N54]

Heat management, good oil/frequent changes and knowing when to let out.

I'll roll over 128,000 miles today. FBO pushing 24psi right now (it's winter). But I'm on a boost by load/gear map because my hpfp just can't keep up in the midrange.
Car does consistent 11.6x's @120mph.
Also in my 3 years of ownership of this car, It's made well over 300 drag passes. Only a few hickups and those are only because of tuning issues. Nothing mechanical has failed yet.

Def agree with you about Oil changes with good oil. I'm just over 128,000 but have had turbos replaced last year. Haven't had much fail on me in my 3 years. Are you pushing 24 psi on MHD maps or custom map?

 

[Silver_Sur4r_N54]

Just thought of something else I would like to hear from other guys about. Backend Flashes. I myself haven't tried JB4 but I have friends who did and they both went to MHD after a while. What are guys thoughts on them? Worth it?

 

[Erichale77]

JB4 is great if you want to stay around the 500-600whp range. It has great features and works well up to a point. But once you start to crave more HP, MHD is more manageable IMO.

 

[Silver_Sur4r_N54]

JB4 is great if you want to stay around the 500-600whp range. It has great features and works well up to a point. But once you start to crave more HP, MHD is more manageable IMO.

So you would rather use JB4 for stock turbos? Mhd for aftermarket turbos?

 

[Twisted Tuning]

Funny you made a thread about this. I have fought back and forth about staying stock twins on our shop car or upgrading. Some time ago i added a DP nitrous setup to it, and that made me want to stay with stockers even more. Maybe sometime down the road i put some larger turbos on it. But for now, im making upgraded twin power anyway on the bottle. so no real point.

In reference to the JB4, if you already don't have it, i dont see a point in getting it. Some will say otherwise, but its just my personal opinion. You already have MHD, so i would just stick with the OTS maps, or get a custom tune. A custom tune is needed anyway beyond a certain point. and the JB4 isn't needed for that either.

But in the end its your choice what you do.

 

[Erichale77]

I agree with Twisted Tuning. If you already have a JB4 use an MHD backend flash with it, if you don't have a JB4 stick with MHD OTS maps or custom tune.

 

[E92-Ghandi]

Thanks for the thread, since i'm daily driving my car i've been having this inner battle to upgrade or stay stock turbo's.
FBO here MHD S2+ OTS with MMP hot-side inlets, planning on getting outlets and some meth and that's it, i'm happy with the way she runs (power wise).

Do you guys think i can squeeze out a bit more with a custom tune?

 

[ShocknAwe]

Thanks for the thread, since i'm daily driving my car i've been having this inner battle to upgrade or stay stock turbo's.
FBO here MHD S2+ OTS with MMP hot-side inlets, planning on getting outlets and some meth and that's it, i'm happy with the way she runs (power wise).

Do you guys think i can squeeze out a bit more with a custom tune?

Way I see it is an opportunity to run slightly better power on lower octane if you have the funds.

That said, been on stocks for 8 years. Still going.

 

[fmorelli]

JB4 is great if you want to stay around the 500-600whp range. It has great features and works well up to a point. But once you start to crave more HP, MHD is more manageable IMO.

I came to the scene in the last few years, just for context. Are you suggesting there are benefits for running JB4 and MHD ver

Thanks for the thread, since i'm daily driving my car i've been having this inner battle to upgrade or stay stock turbo's.
FBO here MHD S2+ OTS with MMP hot-side inlets, planning on getting outlets and some meth and that's it, i'm happy with the way she runs (power wise).

Do you guys think i can squeeze out a bit more with a custom tune?

If you have access to E85, consider the flexfuel setup. You'll want to look at LPFP and fuel line upgrades, possibly. I'm not off stock turbos yet, and the flexfuel setup gave a healthy kick in the pants.

Filippo

 

[tisdrew]

I've replaced stock turbos twice -- both times due to oil leaks from housing and seals going bad; first time was when I was completely stock and untuned. Coupled with the known and common wastegate arm failures, the factory turbos just aren't up to the abuse this community puts them through.

To answer OPs question, these are my inputs on the "how to keep stockers alive while tuned".
1. WG: aftermarket wastegate actuator/arm upgrade/repair kit if these start to go
2. Tuning: Never use MHD burble. Use a reputable tuner if going custom tunes.
3. Boost level: Keep the stock TMAP, running beyond the psi threshold there (21psi) is likely risky for longevity
4. Piping: Upgrade your inlets/outlets and the cold-side charge pipes to be a consistent size -- having a bottleneck or only one large-diameter section of pipe will create pressure and make them work harder. Go look at the size different between the stock and upgraded oulets! It's just like a peashooter exhaust.
5. Oil: Combined with frequent oil changes, if your car did not come with an oil cooler, that's a wise investment. If you have the stock oil cooler, BMS's oil t-stat couldn't hurt. If you're paranoid, upgrading the stock oil cooler is the next logical step. If you track/road course your car -- dual oil coolers seem pretty standard there.
6. Coolant: Turbos are water-cooled too so cars which have never changed their waterpump/thermo or flushed coolant could probably benefit.

 

[Silver_Sur4r_N54]

Funny you made a thread about this. I have fought back and forth about staying stock twins on our shop car or upgrading. Some time ago i added a DP nitrous setup to it, and that made me want to stay with stockers even more. Maybe sometime down the road i put some larger turbos on it. But for now, im making upgraded twin power anyway on the bottle. so no real point.

In reference to the JB4, if you already don't have it, i dont see a point in getting it. Some will say otherwise, but its just my personal opinion. You already have MHD, so i would just stick with the OTS maps, or get a custom tune. A custom tune is needed anyway beyond a certain point. and the JB4 isn't needed for that either.

But in the end its your choice what you do.

I agree that MHD is Great for me. My 2 friends who did have JB4 eventually sold em and got MHD and still do. I just wonder if a Backend Flash is worth it over Mhd alone. I would love to hear more about your Nitrous setup!!! what kind of power you getting?

 

[Silver_Sur4r_N54]

Way I see it is an opportunity to run slightly better power on lower octane if you have the funds.

That said, been on stocks for 8 years. Still going.

DAMMMNNN 8 years??? and no rattles or oil loss to the turbos? I hope to get that type of reliability out of mine!

 

[Silver_Sur4r_N54]

I came to the scene in the last few years, just for context. Are you suggesting there are benefits for running JB4 and MHD ver

If you have access to E85, consider the flexfuel setup. You'll want to look at LPFP and fuel line upgrades, possibly. I'm not off stock turbos yet, and the flexfuel setup gave a healthy kick in the pants.

Filippo

Been thinking about the flex fuel setup for fa while now. I was watching the development for a while before it came out. Only problem I have is there is only one gas station that has e85 near me and its a 30 min drive. When i do go i usually fill up a 20 gallon tank and store it in my garage. E85 is like a drug!!! lol

 

[Silver_Sur4r_N54]

I've replaced stock turbos twice -- both times due to oil leaks from housing and seals going bad; first time was when I was completely stock and untuned. Coupled with the known and common wastegate arm failures, the factory turbos just aren't up to the abuse this community puts them through.

To answer OPs question, these are my inputs on the "how to keep stockers alive while tuned".
1. WG: aftermarket wastegate actuator/arm upgrade/repair kit if these start to go
2. Tuning: Never use MHD burble. Use a reputable tuner if going custom tunes.
3. Boost level: Keep the stock TMAP, running beyond the psi threshold there (21psi) is likely risky for longevity
4. Piping: Upgrade your inlets/outlets and the cold-side charge pipes to be a consistent size -- having a bottleneck or only one large-diameter section of pipe will create pressure and make them work harder. Go look at the size different between the stock and upgraded oulets! It's just like a peashooter exhaust.
5. Oil: Combined with frequent oil changes, if your car did not come with an oil cooler, that's a wise investment. If you have the stock oil cooler, BMS's oil t-stat couldn't hurt. If you're paranoid, upgrading the stock oil cooler is the next logical step. If you track/road course your car -- dual oil coolers seem pretty standard there.
6. Coolant: Turbos are water-cooled too so cars which have never changed their waterpump/thermo or flushed coolant could probably benefit.

really good info here. I think I may go head and get some outlets soon. Wish I had the chance to upgrade my wastegate when I got new turbos but it was through a warranty repair and the mechanic didn't want to do anything other than stock. I do feel the car runs better without the burble also. It also gets old. Just need a nice sounding exhaust imo.

 

[E92-Ghandi]

If you have access to E85, consider the flexfuel setup. You'll want to look at LPFP and fuel line upgrades, possibly. I'm not off stock turbos yet, and the flexfuel setup gave a healthy kick in the pants.

Filippo

Negative, E85 is not available here, only using the Ignite E85 small barrels and mix it every time i go for fuel refill(PITA), yeah i'm aware of the LPFP upgrade and the flex fuel setup, if that's the case i can go through and try the E30 OTS map and see how it goes.
I'm using E100 on my drift Supra, it's impressive but that thing disappears in a stupidly strange way, it would be hell on a daily driven car.

 

[Erichale77]

I came to the scene in the last few years, just for context. Are you suggesting there are benefits for running JB4 and MHD ver

I found the JB4 and MHD backend was a significant increase in performance over stock and wanted the ability to change maps on the fly. But then I soon wanted the most performance I could get from the N54 and rebuilt the entire car for that. It was either go Syvecs or stay with DME and MHD. I chose the later being Syvecs was new and uncharted territory on this platform. But if by "benefits" you mean increase in power and ease of use, then yes. If wanting to remain on stockers, I feel the JB4 and MHD backend flash is the way to go IMHO.

 

[Aaron]

I too am staying with stock turbos, running a 470whp tune on 19psi.

I like the stock response and driving characteristics, but really, the reasoning is cost.

Upgraded turbos are expensive and unreliable no matter what, and they're useless without a fuel system (And I won't use PI so it's an expensive shotgun). You're also playing on bad odds with the stock short block. Blah blah blah they're good to 800whp blah blah blah I blew a 51,000 mile motor on stock turbos and a safe tune. So I'd need fuel, a built block, and then suspension work. This car is down right terrifying in 3rd gear with the way it wanders. And having driven one with over 100k and similar power, it was suicidal. So that's more cost, and it takes away from the comfort of the car. So now we've spent 15 grand and have 750whp, how are we going to stop? I was fading the IS brakes (Which have ducts) in less than a lap of a 2:09/lap track. Bill out another few thousand.

Where does it stop? And what are we left with? #racecar is cool and all, but that's not why I bought a luxury sports car. Especially when I could get a stock ZL1 for cheaper that'd destroy every street legal 3 series on this forum.

So I'll stick with stockers, and, as much shit as I talk, probably go with Rob's turbos when mine give out.

 

[Deleted member 2204]

stock turbos, running a 470whp tune

yyeeahh... no. Gotta see that before i believe it. Either way i can't imagine that that is lasting power on the stockers.

What kind of WGDC percentage is everyone running thier stockers at? I am going over 60% to target 18psi and i'm wondering if i should be in lower numbers. I like the way the car runs. Right now i'm just wondering how to keep it in one piece. Limiting wastegate closure to make it as easy on the turbo's as possible.
Stock in/outlets and i'm wondering if my 2.25 (or2.5inch) lower charge pipe is a bottleneck. How can i make the stockers make boost with low wgdc?

https://datazap.me/u/ballistic/bmw-...ic-flexfuel-high-e-content?log=0&data=3-22-30