Single Turbo flash only PID control

[email protected]

Specialist
Nov 6, 2016
63
150
0
Sav
I posted this on Facebook and it seems more people are interested behind the scenes with PM's and messages than posting public. So ill spill the beans.

With the partial beta release of Motiv's BoostBox and newer compact production units on the way. I have been messing with calibrating WGDC PID to make tuning as simple and accurate as can be. After over 60 revisions i have successfully re-calibrated the PID algorithm over to Single turbo flash only boost control. This was a complete recal of everything including axis changes that better suit the ST system due to positive pressure vs negative pressure wastegates, WG springs, Back pressure, EGT, system configurations and the biggest factor being the change from the factory 300hz solenoids to the Mac valve operating 20-80hz range.

This will retain all existing WGDC tables including and work in conjunction with:
-WGDC base (with custom logic Axis changes compliments of @jyamona)
-WGDC spool
-Spool max RPM
-Spool fuel
-Spool timing
-Spool intake/exhaust VANOS
-Some new much needed additional spool tables that will eventually make future public release.

So it'll all be in harmony just like stock boost control and retain all associated safety's

This PID calibration will be included in all Motiv ST Flash only tunes.

Heres some pictures
I purposely made a random base WGDC table to see how PID would respond to extreme changes.
100% WGDC during spool and shift recovery, full control of a minimum + or - 15% WGDC error
correction. Some of the smoothest most consistent ST boost /load target.

PID1.jpg
PID3.jpg
PID4.png
PID5.jpg
PID6.png
 
Last edited:

doublespaces

General of the Army
Oct 18, 2016
8,943
4,150
0
AZ
Ride
2009 E93 335i
This PID calibration will be included in all Motiv ST Flash only tunes.

Anyone with a single turbo may purchase a motiv tune with this implemented, correct? And when will the box be available?
 

[email protected]

Specialist
Nov 6, 2016
63
150
0
Sav
Yeah, any xdf changes will be public like it's always been. Jake H and I have just partnered up to take on the task of tuning the PID. Anyone can do it if they wish to take it on.
This was to show what's to come and the advancements of ST boost control. It's one of those things that people ask a lot about and there isn't much info out there.
No eta on the production units, let's get all these holiday's out of the way first.
 

08_335i

Sergeant
Nov 3, 2016
372
217
0
28
Ride
2008 ST 335i
Finally. MHD runs the car so much smoother then a jb4 backend through MHD. Can't wait to be able to run full MHD while using JB4 to just control meth\logging.
 
  • Agree
Reactions: doublespaces

Abacus38

Lieutenant
Nov 2, 2016
638
381
0
31
Tampa/Orlando, FL
Ride
2007 Ti Ag 335i
Awesome! In my own experience flash only control is so much smooth then the jb4 BEF method. With the ability to control mac solenoids there's really isn't reason to run the jb4 over MHD
 

Bigdaddyaaron

Corporal
Nov 5, 2016
145
110
0
USA
I'm not quite clear on whether or not we will need the boost box to make use of these pid developments? If not, I'll be buying a motiv ST tune today
 

V8bait

Sergeant
Nov 2, 2016
493
753
0
Texas
I'm not quite clear on whether or not we will need the boost box to make use of these pid developments? If not, I'll be buying a motiv ST tune today

I think you're a little backwards, the boost box enables the DME to control a Mac solenoid natively by translating the signal, the PID developments are more of a complete remap of the OEM PID tables to work with the more conventional control scheme as opposed to vacuum gates, so if you get this without a motiv tune you'll have to spend a good bit of time developing them yourself unless they release base tables as part of the product, in which case you'd just fine tune them to your particular turbo setup.
 

135Pats

Specialist
Nov 17, 2016
70
48
0
MD
I don't want to speak for Chris or the MOTIV team but 99% sure you'll need a boost box; otherwise you'll have a mac solenoid operating at a different frequency and it won't be able to 'talk' properly with the DME

FWIW I've had the boost box on my car for about 500 miles now. Have *literally* yet to experience a limp mode or SES light for any reason in that timeframe. Obviously a lot goes into that, but anecdotally I think it gives a sense for how promising this is. Huge credit to Chris and MOTIV.
 
Last edited:

[email protected]

Specialist
Nov 6, 2016
63
150
0
Sav
I'm not quite clear on whether or not we will need the boost box to make use of these pid developments? If not, I'll be buying a motiv ST tune today

The Boostbox is a separate entity. It just allows the the Mac valve (30hz) to be control by the DME (300hz). It doesnt manipulate or actually control anything. The DME has 100% control of everything.

I think you're a little backwards, the boost box enables the DME to control a Mac solenoid natively by translating the signal, the PID developments are more of a complete remap of the OEM PID tables to work with the more conventional control scheme as opposed to vacuum gates, so if you get this without a motiv tune you'll have to spend a good bit of time developing them yourself unless they release base tables as part of the product, in which case you'd just fine tune them to your particular turbo setup.

This is correct thank you.

I don't want to speak for Chris or the MOTIV team but 99% sure you'll need a boost box; otherwise you'll have a mac solenoid operating at a different frequency and it won't be able to 'talk' properly with the DME

FWIW I've had the boost box on my car for about 5k miles now. Have *literally* yet to experience a limp mode or SES light for any reason in that timeframe. Obviously a lot goes into that, but anecdotally I think it gives a sense for how promising this is. Huge credit to Chris and MOTIV.

First off thank you for the kind words.

Secondly your correct. The Boostbox is/will be public for anyone to purchase. You can tune with it however you want. Whether you go with a custom tune, do it yourself, or whatever. The PID control which works just like OEM and any other flash only tunes but optimized for Single turbos. Which is very different than the OEM method of controlling boost. That portion will be Motiv specific and available on all custom Motiv tunes. The PID will compensate for every external variable condition. Everything from exhaust temp, to altitude changes and changes in IAT. It makes power very consistent everytime, all the time along with every DME safety still intact.
 

doublespaces

General of the Army
Oct 18, 2016
8,943
4,150
0
AZ
Ride
2009 E93 335i
Sure is, and he'd be more of THE fucking man if he'd send me one of those boostboxes I know he's got laying around :) :)

I'm trying to do write ups and shit over here!
 

08_335i

Sergeant
Nov 3, 2016
372
217
0
28
Ride
2008 ST 335i
I really can't wait for this. So exciting. Great job guys, really.