Project F80: Partnering with Ghassan and RB

[Trickcruiser]

Just realized that I never posted this project on Spoolstreet!
Here are all the milestones to this point.


Posting the I am excited to announce that I am partnering with both Ghassan Autmotive and RB Turbo! Our goals? To put together a car that can run 9's one weekend and then do a road course the very next weekend. We are targeting 700whp on this 1k capable build.

Like many of my stories, this one starts off with a little bit of frustration. While I knew the crank hub could be an issue, I was starting to wonder if it was a 1 in a million type of thing (only hear the bad on the internets) or was I destined for failure. Turns out, it is indeed a real thing.

After running the car FBO w PI for about 2 years, on 11/26 my crank hub finally gave up the ghost. I was still a bit surprised at this because of a few factors.
1: 2018 Comp DCT with 10k on the clock
2: The kick down switch was NEVER used
3: Auto mode has NEVER been used
4: When this failed I was only doing a 3/4 throttle pull up a hill to pass traffic and when I came to a stop I got the dreaded vanos faults that would not clear (13E201 and 3F2012)

So onward and upward!

Current drivetrain mods:
JB4, MHD Full e85 BEF, Thor GTS Flashed, Fuel-it! PI with upgraded feed line kit using 750 injectors, BMS charge and J *****, BMS intakes, Phoenix intercooler, VRSF **'s, and ACF exhaust.

Upgrades being performed by Ghassan Automotive:
Forged rods, pistons, APR studs, Max PSI pinned hub, full teardown and rebuild.

RB Turbo will be supplying us with is first set of S55 hybrids (so happy to be working with Rob again)! Rob and I set the N54 twin turbo record a few years back with the first 10 second pass (also in partnership with Fuel It!). While this only lasted what seemed like a minute, I feel it was a big step in helping pushing the platform forward.


Car was picked up on 12/5/19 and should be there on 12/7/19

Goal is to have the car back up and running in Febuary of 2020!




12-7-19
Car arrived at Ghassan!

Thanks again to Ghassan for taking the time to do a walk around and take photos to show that my girl made it there without issues.




12/14/19
Minor update for the build but major update for me.
I knew my build was not going to start until after PRI in Indy this week and Ghassan invited me up to meet him and discuss the project. I have to say, I was impressed with how professional and polite he was with me and everyone he spoke with.

1/9/20
Engine is out!

We have added CSF to the team and they have given me a great deal on their heat exchanger!

We are just about done collecting parts and should have the turbos late January - early February.
The car is on the rack and Ghassan will he removing the engine in the next couple days.

Parts list being installed:Mahle Pistons
Ghassan 1200whp rods
ARP bolt/studs
MaxPSI crank hub
King main bearings
ACL rod bearings
CSF Heat exchanger
RB stage 2 turbos




2/8/20
RB Stage 2 Turbos announcement!
Some teaser shots of the upcoming S55 RB Twos. Keep in mind these are not designed to be the end all be all setup, and we know 100% are not going to take down the competitions peak numbers, and this is 100% not our concern.

These were designed to be the perfect all around setup, the jack of all trades if you will, for the customer who wants considerably more but really doesn't want to deal with all of the crap that comes with going too crazy modifying engines beyond their intended specs (we realize the OP built his motor but he also wants to mainly bulletproof it for track use and really wanted something that was still responsive as well).

The big thing with these is that we really needed to make a custom spec'd turbine wheel, to allow for a perfect fitment into these S55 turbine housings, as such this is NOT a TD04L or TD04HL as neither fits the housing properly. This custom turbine wheel is somewhere in between those wheel sizes however is closer in size to the TD04L than the TD04HL, thus making them a better fit to be our S55 RB Twos.

At some point later we will make a S55 RB Twos Plus, that will entail another custom larger (closer to TD04HL sizing) turbine that will likely create much more lag and it may not be for everyone, unfortunately this is always the trade off for bigger power. It also will use a considerably larger compressor that will certainly not work with the OE front plastic inlet anymore, so we will have to do something entirely custom for that. No big deal there as we've had solutions dreamt up for it for years now, but this is where we are starting out and we really like where it is going...

All in all this setup has been designed to make what most people are going to want, authentic OE quality and hand built in the USA with premium top tier balancing equipment, 100+whp power potential yet retain as close to OE turbo transient response as possible, complete and packaged with port matched inlets, all at an insanely great price that is really going to shake up this platform.

Thanks,
Rob







2/13/20
RB Turbos Completed and shipped to Ghassan!
S55 RB Twos project completed and shipping today. Spent a lot of time diligently customizing, machining, and building these units; we expect one hell of a solid all around setup. Here are some more pics for you all to enjoy.

2/17/20
RB Stage 2 Turbos delivered to Ghassan!



2/25/20
Ghassan started reassembly of the car!

 

[Trickcruiser]

Updates?

Between the world going into lockdown and trying to sort through a couple issues, things have taken a bit more time than expected.

Ghassan was and has been in contact with me throughout the build, fully transparent, and friendly to work with. They found that the timing had slipped about 20 degrees due to the spun hub.

Terry at BMS has been amazing to work with as always. He went above and beyond in trying to sort through the project. He has been incredibly helpful and responsive.


Anyways, update time!


3/2/20
Install completed and first startup video received!!! What an exciting day!
Then oil change after idling for a few minutes.

First Start
Ghassan / RB Build F80 First Start - YouTube

Cold Start
Ghassan / RB F80 Cold Start sounds - YouTube



3/4-3/13 - Ghassan put miles on the car for break in, gradually upping the boost and doing oil changes.

3/14 - Dyno Day!

Car was really heat soaked from running the old fuel through the system so no real data was gained here. We did see timing looking off but assumed that was due to the high IATs.


3/22 - Back on the dyno.

Having some issues with what seemed to be false knock?
Pulled from the dyno, inspected build, fresh e85, and installed new plugs.


3/24 - Back on the dyno

Really more of the same but with added fuel is seems a little better.
Unfortunately Oklahoma City went into shut down due to the virus and we paused to figure out WTF was going on.



3/27 - Back on they dyno.
Trying map 6 she made 600/681 with boost set to taper via default map and timing still being poor and erratic. Good news, the turbos spool up really quickly and hit/hold 30lbs without issue! Unfortunately the dyno numbers are nowhere near where they will be once timing is sorted.

3/28-4/27
At this point Ghassan is confident the build is solid and Terry is confident there is something hardware-related going on. After much internal struggle (I consider Terry a friend), I decided to try something totally different and go flash only tune with Cary at Jordan Tuned. I figured this was one thing that I had control of at this point and it would help prove that it was either a hardware or software issue.



4/29
Base tune from Cary Jordan on the dyno for baseline data
Timing is still an issue and Cary suspects a boost leak as the car is not hitting the targets he requested (but they are on point according to the log).

5/4
I chose to have the car shipped back home so that I could start going over it to see if we could find either the boost leak or reason for the false knock.

5/9
HOME SWEET HOME!

5/10
Did an oil change and sent a sample to BlackStone for data (I like to do this with all builds when possible).

"Typically after a rebuild we'd see some elevated metals or silicon from the wear-in of new parts and sealers/lubes used during the build, but that's not the case here. All of those early and often oil changes seems to have washed a lot of the residual metals down and out, and this fresh S55 is looking mighty fine in its first report. There's no sign of any poor wearing parts, or contamination from fuel or coolant present in the oil. The viscosity measured in the range of a 5W/30, and the low insolubles (solids) show good oil filtration. Great first report!"

I then started pulling everything apart to inspect the plugs and change the PI controller over the the SS controller per Cary's request (thankfully I still had one on the shelf from the Evil1 build).

Then I found it!!! Was this the cause of all of our frustration???

The front knock sensor was pressed HARD against the front HPFP.

Much better!!!

5/10 - 6/12
I am still working with Cary to dial in the tune. We are on V4 and for some reason it seems, the car does not want to accept his boost targets? We have tried doing a full write to stock and then full write of his flash via MHD but still no luck... Any ideas on what we could try or what I might be doing wrong here???


Anyways, the car is hitting what appears to be its targets and pulls well for such low boost. I am absolutely loving how responsive these turbos are and for just 20lbs, it is pulling strong!

YouTube


With a little luck, we can figure out the issue and get her on the dyno and track in the next few weeks!!!

 

[Trickcruiser]

Updates!

The stage 4 system went in and I found this to be a fairly time consuming install for a couple reasons.

1: It was my first LPFP w lines F80 install
2: While not 100% necessary, I decided dropping the tank a few inches ensured no pinched lines. This required dropping the exhaust, braces, shields, and tank straps.

Pulling all the things

I was happy and surprised to see that my 18 Comp still used the CF Drive Shaft!!!

Stock VS Stage 4

On the front half, I had already installed the PI. But adding new lines required full re-install. This requires removal of all of the bracing, intake, IC, and intake manifold (duh). Instead of setting the FPR on the PI rail, I decided to go ahead and relocate it to the strut tower area for easy adjustments if necessary (still working on the tune). I used an extra AeroMotive FPR that I had for another project. I am building a 3D printed bracket and should have it completed this weekend.

Everything working as it should.

 

[Trickcruiser]

As far as performance goes, we are still dialing in the car a bit and hope to get the on the dyno and track soon!

At 22lbs, I ran my friends 1m with a GTW6765R on 25lbs.
From a 40 roll, I jump out a car + and held him off up to 100 (he was reeling me in)
From a 60 roll to 120ish, he walked away and had me by a car or two.

Now at 30lbs, we need a re-roll! I feel pretty good about my chances!

I am super impressed with these RB turbos! The spool up is quick, it pulls strong, and the sounds are a nice bonus! Once we get the tune finalized, this thing will rip!!!

 

[derekgates]

Very cool! Lots to digest here but I am envious of the results after all of that hard work.

It doesn't appear like you are new to the community at all, but welcome!

 

[Trickcruiser]

Had a pretty good week with the car!

On Wed we were able to get on a local Mustang dyno to start dialing this thing in. I know this is not the ideal thing for world breaking numbers, but it is about as good as it gets for actual tuning. I will follow up and travel a bit to hit a dynojet later.

Working with Cary Jordan on the tune, we picked up pretty impressive gains over the stock turbos! Now I did not get a baseline on my car here (due to the spun hub), but I do have a decent delta to work against. My friends 18 dct comp that is FBO e85 also tuned by Cary on the same dyno went 499/512. Once we were done for the day, my car put down 618/619 on this Mustang. This puts us up 119whp and 111tq over his car with stock turbos!!! Using ricer math and adding say 18% (to also account for the SAE to STD conversion) we are at my goals of 729/730!

The car is getting strong! We also had to pull the plug on tuning as the IAT's are getting too high. I am not sure if it is an intercooler issue with the bigger turbos or if I just need to bleed the system again (already bled this thing a dozen times but can't seem to get IAT's down).

The other news here is that running 32 tapering to 30 and the turbos are happy! Once I get the IAT figured out, we are going to bump things up to around 35lbs to see how these things do!!!


On Friday I was able to get a few good runs with a 6266 335is 6spd car. He recently made 670 on map 5. From 60-130ish I had a good car on him!

 

[derekgates]

Man that's some power! Looks like a nice response curve matching stock, mostly. Great results!

 

[langsbr]

Got a draggy? I think 60 - 130 would be more indicative of power than the dyno, especially trying to use the ricer math and say 18% gain on a dynojet. Your friend's stock turbo made 500whp, while most make 550 - 560, so it's closer to 10% gain (if we play the ricer math game.)

I know Rob can't post here - I'd be interested to know how these compare to stockers. It seems like torque still peaks kind of early, and it looks like all/most of the power gain is from running 30psi. How much boost do the stockers run FBO? If it's 30, then this is super impressive, but I'd suspect they are in the 22 - 25 psi range max.

 

[Trickcruiser]

10/9/20 Update:

Finally made it to the local 1/4mile strip on Friday evening for test and tune. Good news was the weather was really good for this time of year. Bad news, everyone it the are area knew it and it was packed...

First pass I had 1st gear set at 40% power, 2nd at 50%, and 3rd+ 100%. Used launch control at the default setting. Is there a way to pre set this or do you always have to adjust on the fly? It would be nice to not have to worry about this moving forward.

10.8 at 136.2mph with a poor 1.9 60'
This shows a gain of 6mph over the stock turbos!

I was able to make one more pass almost 3 hours later (just too many ppl). Knowing this would be my last pass I bumped everything way to far and just blew the tires off but still trapped 136. :drinking:

 

[langsbr]

What fuel was that on? Nice trap, especially if it's on pump gas. FBO E85 stock turbo has done 10.5 @ 132. I would think the key is going to be in 60 - 130 for this car instead of drag strip.

I haven't keep up with the record for 60 -130 on the F80 - I'm thinking mid to high 5s? (ignoring Kratos crazy 4.61 of course.)

 

[Torgus]

Knock the 1.9 down to 1.5 and boom. Money.

Car is also full weight I believe.

Has a lot more in it in my opinion.

 

[Trickcruiser]

What fuel was that on? Nice trap, especially if it's on pump gas. FBO E85 stock turbo has done 10.5 @ 132. I would think the key is going to be in 60 - 130 for this car instead of drag strip.

I haven't keep up with the record for 60 -130 on the F80 - I'm thinking mid to high 5s? (ignoring Kratos crazy 4.61 of course.)

What one car can do on one track on one day should not be considered the standard on what a platform will do. If you look around, you will see most of the e85 FBO cars are more in the low low 11's / high 10's and upper 120's low 130's. My car went 11.0 at 130 FBO with e85 and PI. So the big take here is the 6mph increase in trap. Also, this is literally the first pass on the new build! So the car is going to get quicker.

I do have a Draggy and need to get a couple 60-130 rips logged. I just need to find a good time to do this.

Knock the 1.9 down to 1.5 and boom. Money.

Car is also full weight I believe.

Has a lot more in it in my opinion.

Yeah, that 1.9 was not all that great... The car is indeed full weight and that run was with 3/4 tank of gas and tools in the trunk (prob another 20lbs or so). My NTo1 setup is for the road/track (275f and 305r) but not really ideal for 1/4 runs. I am keeping my eyes on the classified for a drag setup. Something like at ET Street would make all the difference in the world here!

 

[derekgates]

Loving these updates. Car is haulin ass. Keep it up!

(I don't have any advice or anything, just admiring)

 

[ShocknAwe]

Love the new build. Missed this somehow. First pass improvements with a new unfinished setup is a win!

Cheers.