Post Turbo Primary O2 Sensors

jyamona

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Looks like a solid setup for sure, the O2 sensor placement is intriguing to me too - any advantages or disadvantages to running post-WG pre-turbo over the usual manifold mounted o2s?

What? They are mounted in the manifold, same as anything else. And they are pre-WG. This "post-WG pre-turbo" situation you mention would be impossible lol.
 

Panzerfaust

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What? They are mounted in the manifold, same as anything else. And they are pre-WG. This "post-WG pre-turbo" situation you mention would be impossible lol.
Obviously not after the actual wastegate, but where it mounts. It seems like a lot of O2 setups are either in the runners before where the WG mounts, or in some cases on the down pipe still. I just wasnt sure if there was an advantage to the positioning or not because I dont recall seeing them in that spot before.
 

The Convert

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Obviously not after the actual wastegate, but where it mounts. It seems like a lot of O2 setups are either in the runners before where the WG mounts, or in some cases on the down pipe still. I just wasnt sure if there was an advantage to the positioning or not because I dont recall seeing them in that spot before.
The only time they’re still in the dp, for now, is on twin setups.
 

Panzerfaust

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The only time they’re still in the dp, for now, is on twin setups.
I've seen several ST builds on FB where people still stick them in the DP. I know they're custom fabricated DPs, but they're still out there. I suppose from the (lack of) answers to my question, the answer is a resounding "no" but nonetheless this looks like an awesome kit.
 

The Convert

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I've seen several ST builds on FB where people still stick them in the DP. I know they're custom fabricated DPs, but they're still out there. I suppose from the (lack of) answers to my question, the answer is a resounding "no" but nonetheless this looks like an awesome kit.
Care to share pics, because Jake and Chris are the ones developing the software to allow the N54 to run post turbo O2s.
 

Panzerfaust

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Care to share pics, because Jake and Chris are the ones developing the software to allow the N54 to run post turbo O2s.
I don't have them saved nor do I feel like digging through the 10,000 posts in the several different N54 groups, but I have no reason to lie lol. I can vividly recall at least two top mount setups with o2s in the down pipes. Maybe they used JB4s rather than MHD or maybe their AFR readings were just off, but I can certainly say I've seen it.
 

doublespaces

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I don't have them saved nor do I feel like digging through the 10,000 posts in the several different N54 groups, but I have no reason to lie lol. I can vividly recall at least two top mount setups with o2s in the down pipes. Maybe they used JB4s rather than MHD or maybe their AFR readings were just off, but I can certainly say I've seen it.

Are you sure you weren't just looking at the secondary 02s? There have been a few manifolds made the way you describe it, none of them run properly with the stock dme. At least until recent history. A short, completely off-topic history:

VIP Tuning - The first single turbo:
turboupgrade5.jpg

ar design - An ex employee sent these to me and I waited to leak them until the day of their announcement(because I'm so nice):
photo-3.jpg

HPF - Before they went out of business:
hpf335iturbomanifold10-1.jpg

ScrotchieMcBoogerBalls - Username was Unfor, manifold by CP-E if I remember correctly
IMG_3313-1-1.jpg

ETS also had a manifold in development at one point. I've been around long enough to see a few come and go, so if I'm ever skeptical about new products, perhaps this is why. :)
 

Torgus

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I've seen several ST builds on FB where people still stick them in the DP. I know they're custom fabricated DPs, but they're still out there. I suppose from the (lack of) answers to my question, the answer is a resounding "no" but nonetheless this looks like an awesome kit.

You are thinking of the rear 02 sensors my friend.
 

jyamona

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Yea, no one is running the main lambdas in the DP except for Chris at the moment. Testing still in progress.
 

Torgus

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Yea, no one is running the main lambdas in the DP except for Chris at the moment. Testing still in progress.

What is the point of this other than easier manifold design and longer lasting 02s?

I guess I am not sure of the value given how old this platform is and how many solutions are on the market.
 

jyamona

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What is the point of this other than easier manifold design and longer lasting 02s?

With sensors in the manifold, they really should be calibrated for the temp/pressure your car sees using an external wideband. Chris and I did this to get a "average usable" data set for the ADV sensors. However, moving them to the DP will give more accurate readings for stock / NTK sensors for sure. This plus the two reasons you mention. Longer lasting + cheaper o2's.
 
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Panzerfaust

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Are you sure you weren't just looking at the secondary 02s? There have been a few manifolds made the way you describe it, none of them run properly with the stock dme. At least until recent history. A short, completely off-topic history:

VIP Tuning - The first single turbo:
View attachment 24427

ar design - An ex employee sent these to me and I waited to leak them until the day of their announcement(because I'm so nice):
View attachment 24428

HPF - Before they went out of business:
View attachment 24429

ScrotchieMcBoogerBalls - Username was Unfor, manifold by CP-E if I remember correctly
View attachment 24430

ETS also had a manifold in development at one point. I've been around long enough to see a few come and go, so if I'm ever skeptical about new products, perhaps this is why. :)
This is super interesting, thanks for the pics.

I'm not afraid to admit I could have been mistakenly seeing just rear o2s I guess, but I could have sworn at the time it was mentioned the DPs had the main o2s in them. Oh well, admittedly my memory isn't the greatest in the world and we all have our dumb moments.

As a side note since we have an entire thread dedicated to this now, what is it that makes it so difficult on ST setups to run the main sensors anywhere other than pre-turbo?
 

Rcboosted2007

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This is super interesting, thanks for the pics.

I'm not afraid to admit I could have been mistakenly seeing just rear o2s I guess, but I could have sworn at the time it was mentioned the DPs had the main o2s in them. Oh well, admittedly my memory isn't the greatest in the world and we all have our dumb moments.

As a side note since we have an entire thread dedicated to this now, what is it that makes it so difficult on ST setups to run the main sensors anywhere other than pre-turbo?
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